tell me about ARIZONA

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every now and then, i think about moving out to arizona. i'm not very likely to act upon that impulse anytime soon, but the thought never really escapes the back of my mind. given what i plan to do w/ my career, it makes some sense (b/c of all of the retirees) as well as the numerous attractions. on the other hand, what i have heard and read about phoenix and tucson doesn't exactly make either city sound too tempting (lots of suburban sprawl, open questions about whether their expansions are environmentally sustainable, etc).

anyway, please tell me more about arizona. are there ANY ilxors from there anyway?!?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 19 March 2006 04:19 (twenty years ago)

Northern Arizona is nice. Williams is a cute little town that mostly services Grand Canyon tourists, Flagstaff isn't bad for a medium-sized college town.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Sunday, 19 March 2006 04:32 (twenty years ago)

i'm sorry, you said "city"?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 04:36 (twenty years ago)

it's a beautiful place, but pretty devoid of urbanity. i'm hard-pressed to think of any culture that doesn't have to do with indians or spanish colonial history.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 04:38 (twenty years ago)

you can always fly to LA for the weekend

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 04:39 (twenty years ago)

there are two buildings by Frank Lloyd Wright. you can see them in one day.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 04:40 (twenty years ago)

Why not Sante Fe or Albuquerque, instead, if you're gonna go the southwest desert route?

― Yoo Doo Nut (donut), Sunday, 19 March 2006 04:47 (twenty years ago)

tucson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> santa fe or albuquerque

― s/c johnson wax (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 04:51 (twenty years ago)

Santa Fe is played.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Sunday, 19 March 2006 04:51 (twenty years ago)

santa fe is too small and cloyingly "artistic"

― s/c johnson wax (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 04:53 (twenty years ago)

IOW, Marfa pre-Marfa

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Sunday, 19 March 2006 04:55 (twenty years ago)

i think eisbar is interested in a large city with lots of retirees (guess where)

i'm sure santa fe is very touristy, but it also has lots of real art and architecture

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 04:59 (twenty years ago)

if you like adobe huts

― s/c johnson wax (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:01 (twenty years ago)

...including the oldest public building in the United States, plus the Georgia O'Keefe museum, the Museum of Fine Art, the Museum of International Folk Art, the Museum of Spanish Colonial Art, the Museum of Indian Arts and Culture, the Millicent Rogers Museum, lots of galleries, SITE Santa Fe, the (Polshek-designed) Santa Fe Opera, and the major Chamber Music Feestival.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:10 (twenty years ago)

i've been to the o'keeffe museum. it's incredibly boring.

― s/c johnson wax (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:11 (twenty years ago)

actually, I'm underselling Phoenix. a lot of the culture probably sucks, but they do have the basics.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:12 (twenty years ago)

Theoretically that all sounds good, but on the other hand basically means that Santa Fe has zero relation to the rest of the southwest.

But it's totally awesome if you're from the East Coast looking for a little colony out West. (see also: Taos)

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:14 (twenty years ago)

maybe phoenix'll be halfway decent 15-20 years down the road

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:17 (twenty years ago)

Theoretically that all sounds good, but on the other hand basically means that Santa Fe has zero relation to the rest of the southwest.

i'm not getting into an argument tonight, but this is ridiculous

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:18 (twenty years ago)

i didn't spend much time in phoenix, but i found it a bit, er, lacking.

― s/c johnson wax (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:19 (twenty years ago)

it's a great place to sit around the pool and play golf!

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:20 (twenty years ago)

if i were a northeasterner looking to move to that part of the world, i think it would have to be the choice by dint of its size, no matter how suburban

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:22 (twenty years ago)

tucson actually feels more "urban" even though it's smaller... there are a lot of independent businesses and plenty of ways for under-40s to entertain themselves (restaurants, coffee shops, bookstores, record stores, places to see bands).

― s/c johnson wax (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:25 (twenty years ago)

and the thrift stores are unfuckinbeatable.

― s/c johnson wax (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:30 (twenty years ago)

yeah, i imagined so. but how quickly do you run out of stuff? not that you might not have the same problem in Phx. but i also use high culture as a yardstick, and certainly there's more in Phx, which is saying something.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:32 (twenty years ago)

how quickly do you run out of stuff?

i wasn't bored.

but i also use high culture as a yardstick, and certainly there's more in Phx, which is saying something.

i guess i'm just not that impressed by the mere existence of opera houses and art museums -- don't most medium-sized cities have those now? doesn't mean they're any good.

― s/c johnson wax (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:38 (twenty years ago)

yeah, they're not really much good/well-supported (actually the opera is sort of ok, i think, as is the ballet, and the heard of course is the best indian art museum in the country). but their existence and level of quality reflects the demand for same. and there's clearly more in Phx than Tucson. not that such things are important to everyone.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:42 (twenty years ago)

one "high culture" tucson thing i definitely recommend is the center for creative photography at the u of a: http://www.ccp.arizona.edu/branches/ccp/home/home.html

― s/c johnson wax (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:43 (twenty years ago)

Tucson may well be better as a pop, or at least vernacular, culture place. But I just assume that a larger population is always going to bring more options. If you're a touring band, and you play one city, which one is it going to be?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:45 (twenty years ago)

gabb, have you actually BEEN to phoenix?

― s/c johnson wax (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:45 (twenty years ago)

maybe phoenix'll be halfway decent 15-20 years down the road

Not if the cost of energy (and hence air conditioning) keeps going up.

― Yoo Doo Nut (donut), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:47 (twenty years ago)

very briefly, a few times. (and ok, it was really scottsdale)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:47 (twenty years ago)

i imagine the distinction is sort of like Nashville-Memphis. one city is much more urban, cooler, more authentic, etc. but the other one is bigger and richer and affords more options, even if the prevailing culture pretty much sucks.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:52 (twenty years ago)

(i'm excising the whole country-music thing from Nashville for this purpose)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:54 (twenty years ago)

more options for what? there's nothing there!

― s/c johnson wax (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:55 (twenty years ago)

ally to thread, obv

― s/c johnson wax (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:56 (twenty years ago)

sports, for one thing - you've got all four majors represented

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 05:59 (twenty years ago)

Phx also has a major alt-weekly, doesn't it?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 06:06 (twenty years ago)

major airport. closer to flagstaff and the canyon.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 06:07 (twenty years ago)

Welcome to Phoenix!

http://i1.tinypic.com/rrqyao.jpg

― Yoo Doo Nut (donut), Sunday, 19 March 2006 06:09 (twenty years ago)

tad i live in tucson: it's a cool city but i wouldn't want to live anywhere else in arizona. phoenix basically has everything bad about LA (hot weather, smog, too many ppl) and none of the good things about LA (cultural stuff, ocean in vicinity), and all the other towns are too small to be much fun to live in if you're not, like, 70. flagstaff's nice but i haven't been there long enough to say much about it.

good things about tucson: good weather except at certain points in the summer, mountains wherever you look, 18-foot tall saguaro cacti, cool rundown-looking downtown area (much of which hasn't changed in decades), and yes as jbr said lots of decent venues and bookstores and record shops (tho i haven't been to PDQ since they changed ownership). oh yeah, and the U of arizona >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ASU, by a light-year.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 19 March 2006 07:15 (twenty years ago)

yeah, the U influence is a point in Tucson's favor. as for the cultural stuff, sure Phoenix doesn't hold a candle to LA, but neither does Tucson, and Phoenix has a lot more money to spend down the road. and Phoenixland has 4 15,000+-capacity arenas, 3 football stadiums, 3/4 of the cactus league, and a major Nascar track, while Tucson has no major sports team. the state newspaper, a great NPR/jazz station and Air America are all based in Phoenix. it's also home to 70,000 jews.

the wikipedia page on Phoenix is pretty informative. note especially the weather and downtown sections (but note also the discussion of Scottsdale's "rather dynamic downtown area").

another parallel with nashville-memphis - Phoenix is off the rail map, while amtrak goes through Tucson.

anyway, tad has a professional interest in both being in a corporate center and being near rich retirees, so the Phx v Tucson discussion may be moot. but i agree that Phx is hardly a great choice. Miami obviously is an option if you can stand the weather, and it seems like it's going to develop some serious urbanity/cultural life over the next several years. but why not LA (or San Diego)? if the work is there, those seem to be far and away the best choices on the other measures.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 15:49 (twenty years ago)

or why not Vegas? closer to the Grand Canyon and other national parks, better art (classical music still struggling), pop music-wise a virtual suburb of LA (?), multiple international-class restaurants, and lots of, uh, street life.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 15:59 (twenty years ago)

everything bad about LA (hot weather, smog, too many ppl) and none of the good things about LA (cultural stuff, ocean in vicinity)

so Tucson isn't hot? Phx, which is between SF and Seattle in size, surely doesn't have too many ppl for a Northeasterner, but Tucson, a metro of fewer than 1 million (only slightly larger than New Haven or Albany), might have too few. and the ocean isn't any closer there.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 16:23 (twenty years ago)

smog in Tucson (or Vegas) is better than Phoenix, but Phoenix is better than NY or Philly

in terms of density, metro area-wide, LA>NY>Vegas>Miami>Mission Viejo>Phoenix>San Diego>Philly>Tampa Bay>Orlando>Tucson. though Tucson>Boston on this measure.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 March 2006 16:54 (twenty years ago)

I lived in Tucson for, let me see, 18 years. The pace of life is slow there, a positive in my book. Lots to do, depending on what you're into. I found the literary scene there to be much more lively than in Philadelphia, where I live now. The Tucson rock scene is or was one of the better overlooked ones in the US, though several bands have gotten notice (Doo Rag, Giant Sand, Calexico.) It's sort of hard to get out of there once you move in though. Some kind of sluggishness sets in. Phoenix is terrible in comparison. JD, what happened to PDQ?

― ramon fernandez, Sunday, 19 March 2006 17:50 (twenty years ago)

dude, phx is only what, an hour, hour n a half from tucson, so if he does feel claustrophobic in tucson it's no big deal to escape to the "big city" for a bit.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 20 March 2006 04:58 (twenty years ago)

tucson isn't quite as hot as pahonicks, and the heat is more easy to escape.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 20 March 2006 04:59 (twenty years ago)

I'm from arizona, not born there, but lived there about 14 of my first 18 years (but haven't really been back since I graduated high school so things have changed I'm sure). Tucson is so vastly superior to Phoenix, I can't think of any aspect of phx that's better. The cultural institutions are smaller but of good quality. Tucson is sprawly but less so than phoenix, and it's just less plastic. It's very comfortable, I don't know how else to describe it. Maybe it's that slow pace that Ramon mentioned above, although I'm a junkie for NYC-style stimulation. I grew up in a tiny town east of Tucson where there was nothing to do so maybe Tucson was incredibly stimulating in comparison. Maybe you are interested in the rural towns eisbar? I doubt it but they do hold their own appeal, and the retirees are everywhere. You can buy land for next to nothing at foreclosure sales and live off the grid with solar panels and rain/well water.

― teeny (teeny), Monday, 20 March 2006 15:29 (twenty years ago)

Phoenix is a terrible place. It's like some kind of underworld breeding of Salt Lake City and L.A., without any of the benefits of either of those cities. I don't know enough about Tucson to say anything decisive about it but it'd take Herculean effort on the part of Tucson to be worse than Phoenix and its suburbs.

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Monday, 20 March 2006 15:36 (twenty years ago)

First of all Pheonix bites ass. JD's right. Tucson's your only hope of enjoying AZ. It's very mellow. You can always excape to Nogales if you need some excitement. Prostitutes, drug dealers, little kids who'll rob you blind, plus cheap rugs! The sunsets are insane and there's lots of intellectual lesbians for some reason....and there's PDQ! Did anyone mention Club Congress yet? I went there last year and saw the same people that were there 11 years ago, same old motley crew of hippies and hipsters. I love that town.

― django (django), Monday, 20 March 2006 15:42 (twenty years ago)

I lived in the Phoenix area from 1989 - 1999, and agree: it's crap. But, there are a lot of retirees out there. If you want to work with the elderly, they are generally clustered out in Sun City West, where there is also Boswell Hospital, which is geriatric-care focused. The arts scene in the Phx area is vibrant, once you get away from the tweeness and fauxness that is rampant, particularly in Scottsdale. My step-mom runs the magnet art/gallery/artist-in-residence programs at South Mtn HS though and so points me to the good stuff when I visit.

Tucson is preferrable to Phoenix for a lot of reasons - the terrain is more diverse, it's generally 10 degrees or so cooler than Phx (due to higher average elevation), proximity to Mexico, and the most major one for me: planting russian olive trees is illegal (they are horrible, horrible allergen producers, and are all over the Phx area).

― Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 20 March 2006 15:48 (twenty years ago)

and there's lots of intellectual lesbians for some reason

haha yeah, there's even a feminist bookstore!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 20 March 2006 16:49 (twenty years ago)

phoenix has rampant tweeness??

― POOP BITCH (Mandee), Monday, 20 March 2006 17:20 (twenty years ago)

Scottsdale, definite twee infestation, of the cowboy/kokopelli sort.

― Jaq (Jaq), Monday, 20 March 2006 17:23 (twenty years ago)

haha yeah, there's even a feminist bookstore!

right! Antigone, isn't it? I bought all my Toni Morrison books there.

The arts scene in the Phx area is vibrant

who made those horrible dancing people by the downtown theatre? i hate them so much.

― django (django), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 01:42 (twenty years ago)

four years pass...

keep it real, douchebags!

― in my day we had to walk 10 miles in the snow for VU bootleg (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 June 2010 20:13 (sixteen years ago)

Jesus fucking christ.

― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Friday, 4 June 2010 20:15 (sixteen years ago)

City Councilman Steve Blair spearheaded a public campaign on his talk show at Prescott radio station KYCA-AM (1490) to remove the mural.

In a broadcast last month, according to the Daily Courier in Prescott, Blair mistakenly complained that the most prominent child in the painting is African-American, saying: "To depict the biggest picture on the building as a Black person, I would have to ask the question: Why?"

I stab you

― in my day we had to walk 10 miles in the snow for VU bootleg (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 June 2010 20:17 (sixteen years ago)

^^^May we take it as a given that City Councilman Steve Blair is a total douche? I ask unanimous consent. Hearing no objection...

I've heard some good things about the Sonoran Desert, fwiw.

― Aimless, Friday, 4 June 2010 23:34 (sixteen years ago)

i started this thread well before this horseshit about giving shit to Latinos and immigrants, of course. which is apparent, but i wanted to be on record saying that anyway.

― about as twee as a being beaten with a phone book (Eisbaer), Friday, 4 June 2010 23:57 (sixteen years ago)

i guess New Mexico would be the kinder-and-gentler ersatz Arizona these days ...

― about as twee as a being beaten with a phone book (Eisbaer), Friday, 4 June 2010 23:58 (sixteen years ago)

seven months pass...

I was recently in both and I found New Mexico a lot prettier than Arizona, but I guess it's hard to make a living in New Mexico.

― Cubby Wubby Nubby Hubby Dubby (u s steel), Wednesday, 5 January 2011 15:15 (fifteen years ago)

New Mexico >>>>>>>>>>> Arizona
on basically every conceivable level
AZ is actually more impoverished than NM (#1 most is Louisiana, then AZ, then NM)

― Stop Non-Erotic Cabaret (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:14 (fifteen years ago)

(According to a recent article in the Arizona Daily Star)

― Stop Non-Erotic Cabaret (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:15 (fifteen years ago)

I like the Watermelon one and the Ice Tea but the sweet tea is totally pointless. The grape one is great but it will probably give you cancer.

― plax (ico), Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:16 (fifteen years ago)

green tea one imo

― markers, Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:28 (fifteen years ago)

ugh green tea is totally crappy

― plax (ico), Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:28 (fifteen years ago)

BAN

― markers, Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:29 (fifteen years ago)

mango tho, mango

― plax (ico), Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:29 (fifteen years ago)

green tho

― markers, Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:30 (fifteen years ago)

the worst is when they only have the bottle even tho they are twice the price for no reason

― plax (ico), Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:31 (fifteen years ago)

Raspberry green is great on a hot day after cycling.

― Cubby Wubby Nubby Hubby Dubby (u s steel), Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:31 (fifteen years ago)

wait what i have never seen that

― plax (ico), Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:34 (fifteen years ago)

also drinking any of these for actual thirst purposes seems like a p bad idea

― plax (ico), Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:34 (fifteen years ago)

yeah not recommended

― markers, Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:36 (fifteen years ago)

i like the sweet ice tea

i can only drink these in the summer

oh also the half n half mango lemon

― ╰㊂-㊂╯ (Lamp), Wednesday, 5 January 2011 23:58 (fifteen years ago)

five months pass...

http://i.imgur.com/xnZUF.jpg

just started trying these recently -- better than the green tea!

if this is what lamp in the post above meant by "sweet ice tea," then lamp otm

― markers, Monday, 20 June 2011 03:45 (fourteen years ago)

those are good but by the end it just feels like you're eating packets of sugar

― iatee, Monday, 20 June 2011 03:51 (fourteen years ago)

two years pass...

arizona is crazy.

― Daniel, Esq 2, Wednesday, 22 January 2014 03:48 (twelve years ago)

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