Did George Washington have an American accent?

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He was born here, after all. I'm just wondering how those guys (early American colonials) sounded, there's no recordings.

andy --, Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:05 (twenty years ago)

By definition he did though it would surely sound 'foreign' to us.

M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:09 (twenty years ago)

britishes, no? wouldnt it take a whole bunch of generations for an accent associated with a geographical area to change or develop. i dont know. im assuming.
Id be interested to know how the english language changed in america - different spelling (U dropping and the whole y/i switcheroo), replacement of popular meanings (tap/faucet, queue/line) etc

sunny successor (katharine), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:13 (twenty years ago)

AS IF YOU KNOW. It could very well be that the first English settlers had American accents and that's why they left for America in the first place.

Patriot, Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:13 (twenty years ago)

Much of the spelling differences are down to the originator of the American Dictionary. (I want to say Samuel Webster? I always get him and Jo(h)nson mixed up.)

The accent would probably be unlike most modern "English" accents because Estuary English has expanded to eclipse so much of the country. I imagine he would probably sound actually quite Northern - wasn't his family from Washington up Norf?

ILX: Where you go when you're sick of being NICE to people? (kate), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:15 (twenty years ago)

current american accents sound like old school brit ones anyway - the uk changed, not us

+++, Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:16 (twenty years ago)

I saw some amazing doc on PBS, a follow up on the HISTORY OF ENGLISH from 20/25 yrs ago, it was called "How Do You Speak American?" or something, and they said that pretty much up until WWII, the general American accent was more british, and then after WWII, that was considered posh.

Huk-L (Huk-L), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:17 (twenty years ago)

Grew on a farm in Virginia, right? Didn't get sent to England for schooling, right?

kingfish ubermensch dishwasher sundae (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:17 (twenty years ago)

Noah Webster, btw, Kate

M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:17 (twenty years ago)

Thanks, Michael.

ILX: Where you go when you're sick of being NICE to people? (kate), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:18 (twenty years ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_english

R.I.P. West Village Bird Shaman ]-`: (ex machina), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:18 (twenty years ago)

When did German puritans start trickling (i.e. the Amish et al) in? That might have shifted the dialect some.

andy --, Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:19 (twenty years ago)

(ha ha, Samuel Webster is a brand of Real Ale. Shows where my head is at.)

ILX: Where you go when you're sick of being NICE to people? (kate), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:19 (twenty years ago)

I'll bet Ben Franklin sounded like the guy from the Pepperidge Fahms commercials.

andy --, Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:20 (twenty years ago)

In the United States, only linguistically conservative eastern-New-England speakers took up this innovation.

Ha ha!

The right place, then, Kate.

M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:21 (twenty years ago)

This is an interesting question!

gbx (skowly), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:25 (twenty years ago)

And so is this...

http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/standardamerican/presidential/voices/

'George Washington never spoke publicly for more than ten minutes because his false teeth required him to keep his jaws clenched'

Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:27 (twenty years ago)

Yes, it is interesting. I'm just wondering how to work the Great Vowel Shift into it, except that happened a couple of hundred years before the colonisation of America.

ILX: Where you go when you're sick of being NICE to people? (kate), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:27 (twenty years ago)

Chased Moby Dick, didn't he?

kingfish ubermensch dishwasher sundae (kingfish 2.0), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:28 (twenty years ago)

I met a couple Nova Scotian sailers once, and they almost had a brogue - I remember thinking that they probably sounded like early settlers.

andy --, Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:28 (twenty years ago)

+++ is right about some stretches of southern appalachia, which have been determined to sound similar to spoken elizabethan english, both of which are worlds away from what modern english people sound like.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:29 (twenty years ago)

oh and to complicate things:

http://www.nndb.com/people/933/000026855/audrey-hepburn.jpg

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:31 (twenty years ago)

HE SOUNDED LIKE A CROSS BETWEEN SAM WATERSTON AND FOGHORN LEGHORN I HEARD IT IN A DREAM

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:36 (twenty years ago)

lincoln's supposed to have sorta a 'high' voice right - not the johnny cash profundo you see depicted usually right?

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 23 March 2006 18:38 (twenty years ago)

the voice of old american movies and radio is much closer to brit sounding that current american, so i think that PBS doc has it right.

AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 23 March 2006 19:11 (twenty years ago)

I think a lot of that was affected, Aaron.

Lincoln is generally described as having a high 'nasal' voice less suited to public elocution than say, Stephen Douglas.

M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 23 March 2006 19:13 (twenty years ago)

I wonder if the wild colonials drank good beer? Did they make their own beer? Why does bourbon sound like a french word if it's an American concoction?

andy --, Thursday, 23 March 2006 19:20 (twenty years ago)

Beowulf and Larry the Cable Guy actually sound alike

TOMBOT (TOMBOT), Thursday, 23 March 2006 19:22 (twenty years ago)

xpost: they drank each others' urine

ss peckerwood, Thursday, 23 March 2006 19:23 (twenty years ago)

the voice of old american movies and radio is much closer to brit sounding that current american,

"See, now I'll tell ya what we're gonna do there, General Ewing. We're gonna cross over the ice there, you see, and take out dose wise-guy British, trampin' all over town in OUR TRENTON!"

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 23 March 2006 19:26 (twenty years ago)

Didn't George Washington have a Bavarian accent?

DV (dirtyvicar), Thursday, 23 March 2006 20:53 (twenty years ago)

fnord

latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 23 March 2006 20:55 (twenty years ago)

Why does bourbon sound like a french word if it's an American concoction?

Named after Bourbon County, Kentucky

M. White (Miguelito), Thursday, 23 March 2006 21:07 (twenty years ago)

I always thought the Irish accent sounded closest to what we now know as American English. But the Irish came to the US late, right?

mike a, Thursday, 23 March 2006 21:58 (twenty years ago)

this thread is fascinating

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 23 March 2006 22:15 (twenty years ago)

When I hear old radio reports or 50's tv shows, Americans voices sounded higher and reedier, with more of a nasal quality.

andy --, Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:15 (twenty years ago)

I suspect that's an artifact of the medium, andy. With static and poor reception commonplace, it was important for TV and radio people to have -- or cultivate -- voices that could "cut through" all of it.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:35 (twenty years ago)

People in the 1910's skipped around real fast, wore monochromatic clothing, couldn't speak, and were real surprised at the appearance of oncoming trains, or so I've picked up from old movies and recordings.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:37 (twenty years ago)

Other American introductions include "belittle,"

!!! Goddammit, I love the Simpsons.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:45 (twenty years ago)

Why does bourbon sound like a french word if it's an American concoction?
Named after Bourbon County, Kentucky

which is named after the french monarchs, c'mon man.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 March 2006 23:48 (twenty years ago)

The closest existing accent to colonial American accents (and British accents of the time) is the Charlotte, SC accent (or so I've heard). +++ OTM abt British accents changing more rapidly than American ones. Particularly in the rural South, the US was much more sparsely populated than the British Isles, which means dialect evolved less rapidly. In New England, particularly in coastal port towns, the accent evolved along with Britain's because of perpetual contact with British traders (hence the more "posh" accent in Boston, et al).

So George Washington, being from Virginia, probably had an accent akin to the genteel southern accent.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 24 March 2006 02:46 (twenty years ago)

'George Washington never spoke publicly for more than ten minutes because his false teeth required him to keep his jaws clenched'

I imagine him sounding like Katherine Hepburn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locust_Valley_Lockjaw

Dave AKA Dave (dave225.3), Friday, 24 March 2006 13:28 (twenty years ago)

how many types of dialects/accents are their in the us? if their not too many can someone list them?

I'm curious, do people in like idaho, utah, washington etc have their own way of speaking?

Lovelace (Lovelace), Friday, 24 March 2006 13:44 (twenty years ago)

Katherine Hepburn: American; Audrey Hepburn: not.

I think there is a distinct Northwestern accent (rounder, more "Canadian"), but it's subtle.

brianiast (briania), Friday, 24 March 2006 14:07 (twenty years ago)

I always thought the Irish accent sounded closest to what we now know as American English. But the Irish came to the US late, right?

The Irish came late but amongst the earliest and biggest numbers of settlers were from Ulster (they virtually invented the South!) The Ulster settlers would have described themselves as Ulster Scots rather than as Irish, I'm not sure what accent they would have but I'm guessing not too far from present day Ulster (as opposed to actually having Scots accents)

Dadaismus, the Male Poster (Dada), Friday, 24 March 2006 14:17 (twenty years ago)

Ah, my Irish went to Canada at about this time but my grandfather with the Irish surname died before I could really ask him about all of it. He was v. Protestant but his name goes so far back in Fermanagh half of Enniskillen has it anyway, and he identified as "Scots-Irish". One of my grandmothers spoke fluent LVL and pronounced all French words properly (please remember French was universal for diplomatic use until I think the 1920s). Her accent was posh and straight out of the 19th century.

I have a 91-year-old upper-class English neighbour back home who left London in 1947 and that's where his voice has STUCK ever since. Using both these models I have a pretty good idea of older accents so from there, I'll extrapolate.

Washington could have sounded like Worzel Gummidge if his UK ancestors came from the south-west or East Anglia, where lots of Puritan emigres tended to sail from, but if he was a bit posher than that (and seems to be) I bet he sounds like someone's old, donnish farmer grandfather. But probably did not sound a lot like TS Eliot.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 24 March 2006 14:42 (twenty years ago)

hahah you're probably right M White.

you know, i always suspected the medium, tracer, but thought it had to do more with frequency response rather than an affectation deliberately put on in order to cut through the mix of static and poor quality audio.

i wish people still talked like that though.

AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 24 March 2006 15:04 (twenty years ago)

Didn't a lot of the early puritan settlers come from Lincolnshire? Hence Boston? Don't ask me to identify a Lincolnshire accent however!

Dadaismus, the Male Poster (Dada), Friday, 24 March 2006 15:07 (twenty years ago)

how many types of dialects/accents are their in the us? if their not too many can someone list them?
I'm curious, do people in like idaho, utah, washington etc have their own way of speaking?

Get one $620 Atlas of North American English.

The Milkmaid (82375538-A) (The Milkmaid), Friday, 24 March 2006 15:09 (twenty years ago)

Lincs is the northernmost part of East Anglia. Present-day native Bostonians are more Deliverance-style than Nob Hill.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 24 March 2006 15:14 (twenty years ago)

alright if we're recommending books, this one here is extraordinarily researched, compiled and presented. in many ways like an OED of the Smoky Mountains, with examples, pronunciation and derivation. or a coffee-table, Appalachian version of "The Patter" if you like. - "The Dictionary of Smoky Mountain English" - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572332220/104-3697016-6277568?v=glance&n=283155

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 24 March 2006 15:38 (twenty years ago)

hmmm it appears there is some controversy over the whole "hillbillies talk like Shakespeare" school of thought, which i remember being a fairly uncontroversial "did you know?" kind of thing in the 80s... apparently there an article entitled "Myths: How a Hunger for Roots Shapes Our Notions About Appalachian English" in an issue of Now and Then dedicated to Appalachian accents, but it's not available online. blurb sez: "Think all those folks in Appalachia are speaking pure Elizabethan English? Think again."

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 24 March 2006 15:44 (twenty years ago)

According to Van Morrison (and he should know about these things, shouldn't he?!?!?), "hillbillies" were settlers from Ulster who were known as "Billy Boys" - or is Van pulling our leg there? It might explain why the Lone Ranger rides a white horse...

http://www.open2.net/openminds/GRAPHIC/wk11/detail/detailimages/billy.jpg

Dadaismus, the Male Poster (Dada), Friday, 24 March 2006 15:49 (twenty years ago)

Other American introductions include "belittle,"

!!! Goddammit, I love the Simpsons.

Hmm?

The Yellow Kid, Friday, 24 March 2006 20:10 (twenty years ago)

Didn't a lot of the early puritan settlers come from Lincolnshire? Hence Boston? Don't ask me to identify a Lincolnshire accent however!

Hello!

(yes, they did - a lot were from either Lincolnshire, or the fenland bits on the Lincolnshire-Yorkshire border. The same area that Methodism came from, in fact)

Forest Pines (ForestPines), Friday, 24 March 2006 20:52 (twenty years ago)

I know I've mentioned it before but 'The Cousins' Wars' by Kevin Phillips

M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 24 March 2006 21:14 (twenty years ago)

Charlotte, SC

gah, I think my meds are getting to me - that should be Charleston, obv.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 25 March 2006 00:43 (twenty years ago)

It means that there was an invisible joke in the episode of the Simpsons where they're trying to convince Lisa that Jebediah Springfield invented the word 'embiggen' - "It's a perfectly cromulent word" etc.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Saturday, 25 March 2006 01:05 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

• I am 79 years old. I bring this up first to help explain my question. In the late 1930s or early 1940s, I was looking through an old stack of Life magazines, and there was a picture of an old couple sitting on the porch of a cabin (or shack) up in the mountains somewhere in Appalachia, with the notation: "The King and Queen of America?" The small article with the picture stated that if George Washington had become king of the U.S., these two would (under the usual custom) be our king and queen. I have thought of this from time to time, even doubted it. (It might have been part of the propaganda of the time, the Depression years, that we were all equal, etc.) I am dimly aware that George Washington had brothers, and that it is possible that the descent is known. As I remember, it was a lovely picture, the old couple looking out over a valley, with mist, and smoking their corncob pipes. Can you find the picture? Can you tell me whether there was truth in the assertion?

VH1 Behind the Usic (and what), Thursday, 18 December 2008 14:55 (seventeen years ago)

if youve ever seen the hbo mini series john adams u know what it sounds like when gw talks

ice cr?m, Thursday, 18 December 2008 15:00 (seventeen years ago)

I only saw a fleeting bit of that, but Paul Giamatti seemed to be talking with a British accent, or am I wrong about that?

Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 December 2008 15:02 (seventeen years ago)

if you've ever read Mason and Dixon by Thomas Pynchon you know that George Washington liked to smoke pot.

Mr. Que, Thursday, 18 December 2008 15:02 (seventeen years ago)

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=94f41e2a731d55fb_landing

La plus perdue de toutes les journées est celle où l’on n’a pas (Michael White), Thursday, 18 December 2008 15:25 (seventeen years ago)

In response to the bit on who would be king had Washington been crowned, see http://www.newsweek.com/id/162914/page/1

It's fun to think about but it presumes a) a complete fizzling of the republican feeling that (at least in part) gave us the revolution, b) no dynastic changes or inconvenient Cromwells coming along and mucking things up, and c) (most damningly) the highly suspect notion that everyone's marriage and reproductive choices would have unspooled exactly as they did in the absence of having the throne to consider.

As Washington was childless, the line would either go through his step-grandson G.W.P. Custis (whom he adopted) or if you stipulate blood relatives, his nephew Bushrod (who inherited Mount Vernon).

And in re. Appalachian accents, please keep in mind that the Washingtons were a Northern Neck/Piedmont phenomenon and decidedly non-Appalachian.

Ye Mad Puffin, Thursday, 18 December 2008 17:41 (seventeen years ago)

BUSHROD

ice cr?m, Thursday, 18 December 2008 18:24 (seventeen years ago)

Puffin I don't think it "presumes" those things, I think it takes a what-if curiosity and uses it so we can all congratulate ourselves on being better than monarchists. Though you are right that the family tree would be rather different if it were a royal one. (Also that guy would not be wearing that shirt.)

nabisco, Thursday, 18 December 2008 18:29 (seventeen years ago)

I mean, I wouldn't get too analytical about it, it's basically saying "good thing we were so awesome that we did away with monarchy, but check it out, if we hadn't, LOL: this ordinary American Joe turns out to be straight down the line of succession! (And he don't think he's better than nobody!)"

nabisco, Thursday, 18 December 2008 18:30 (seventeen years ago)

totally, broski

the higgs bosun (gabbneb), Thursday, 18 December 2008 19:33 (seventeen years ago)

he was from northern virginia, not the american part

circles, Thursday, 18 December 2008 20:14 (seventeen years ago)


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