YOU STUDIED LIBERAL ARTS

i think its not just the govs fault, i think expectations are going to have to change, and although in theory, behaviour/expectations should be moulded by economics, this doesnt seem to be happening in reality.

basically yeah. more or less everyone i've ever met has wanted in some way to work in the media. but perhaps that was true in the '60s too.

The trouble here is that there's a big gap between the decision-making and its economic results: it's very easy to think, around age 19, that you'll be one of those who'll make a living in your field, and it can be more than a decade later that you get really in touch with the consequences of that decision. But given enough time, I think you might get social reflections of these economics -- i.e., teenagers who already have an expectation that people who major in certain fields do well economically, and that people who major in other ones are a lot more likely to scrape around.

I think the good news for people in less-marketable fields is that a large proportion of professional work is still unspecific with regard to skills -- the level of education can make up for the lack of particulars. So you're still disadvantaged in parts of the job market, but it's not as if you're absolutely barred from jobs. The consulting firm is still going to hire the business majors -- but if there are really less of them around, and the ones that are around are coveted everywhere else, then the consulting firm will wind up hiring the well-educated English major, too. (I certainly knew plenty of people who did less-marketable humanities in college and then hopped straight into business professions and worked up the ranks from there.)

However, as someone who is living proof of his second paragraph (I studied *art* FFS, but now work as a data analyst in banking) I do think it's important not to fall into the entitlement trap of "I have a degree in this, I should be entitled to a job in this field" - and recognise at which point one needs to get realistic about one's career options.

Mind you, that's based on my experience of watching friends who have succeeded, rather than personal experience. But I think that's a better sample.

xpost erm so am i...

when you pick yr subjects for HE you either assume you can get a job in that field, whatever it is, or (more realistically?) you don't really think about the vocational element and concentrate on the learning bit. that goes for me, i was determined to study something i was interested in and owrry about jobs later. nice one.
mind you a russian graduate can join a theology grad in learning how to align car parking spaces and work on the statistics of road accidents so thats a decent illustration of the principle.

however

youre right that having a degree in an arts subject doesnt exclude you from other professions with a higher job availability, but the problem is no so much that you cant get those jobs but it has to be a decision to go for that sort of thing. how many of those studying journalism, media studies, philosophy are gonna take one rejection letter from BBC or whoever and think, "its clear that now i need to aim to be in PR or Project Management or supply chain management or something, and im happy to make that change"?

vicarious fame, getting into parties for free, nobbing the research girl.

"The problem is old, greedy assholes. It used to be a lot of people had sort of a Christian consciousness about things when the modern economy got started. They also died earlier. So, out with the old, in with the new and don't be a Scrooge. Now, people live forever and find it more interesting to control as much as possible with as few others involved as possible. Big rich fucks with huge plots of land to live on or to destroy in the interest of profit. Fuck those assholes. I say we have-nots get up, go out and just kill every rich old fucker we see in the street on April 1st. With the element of surprise, we can win this one, guys."

Having success in the working world with a liberal arts degree should be easy, because humanities studies encourage laterality in thinking, but since so many people do the degrees you really have to stand out from them somehow. And show discipline without seeming like you do BDSM in your spare time. However I've found that many people who go toward the more creative degrees are more interested in the end product "media person" than the process of becoming one and the real hard work that entails. It soon becomes apparent who is living in an aspiration zone and who isn't. It's kind of like the difference between people who like well-designed/crafted/written things and people who know how to produce them.

Vicarious fame and free parties are basically poisoned chalices, but I've had me jabs.

I guess this is the best place to ask.

If you study at a liberal arts college in the States, what's the title of your degree at the end of it? Is it 'BA [insert your major]'? You don't comeout with a degree called 'BA Liberal Arts ([your major])', do you?

The diploma on my wall just says Baccalaurei Artium; my transcript says BA. I had no major -- I put BA (Liberal Arts) on my cv.

'BA [insert your major]'

It has a poetic ring about it...

If you study at a liberal arts college in the States, what's the title of your degree at the end of it? Is it 'BA [insert your major]'? You don't comeout with a degree called 'BA Liberal Arts ([your major])', do you?

Generally, no -- it's just a B.A.

I have, however, heard of schools (usually larger universities) that have offered a Bachelor of Liberal Arts degree for "nontraditional" students (such as adults who just need a diploma).

Like this? http://www.kcl.ac.uk/prospectus/undergraduate/index/name/liberal-arts/alpha/JKL/header_search/

The only reason the economy exists is to meet human needs and serve human desires. Ultimately, the measure of our decisions must be whether they improved our own lives and those of others we care about.

For that reason alone it is both silly and stupid to confine your view of the value of education to whether it allows you to get a particular job or to meet a certain standard of pay, because those are secondary matters that have no purpose if they do not help you meet your larger goal of living well. I'm not saying these don't matter at all, but they shouldn't be treated as detachable values, wholly good in themselves.

Our society in general does a rotten job of thinking about what money is, what it is for, and how much is enough. The entire debate over education vs. job training gets mired in this lack of clarity. \captain obvious

the problem is not people studying liberal arts, it's liberal arts degrees w/ a $200,000 price tag

bingo!

I thought this would be an Anal Cunt thread :(

― Why does the birds always shitting on me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 11:29 (5 years ago)

^^^

It still could be

you studied liberal arts
you studied liberal arts
you studied liberal arts
you studied liberal arts

you were brought up in a nice suburb
and you dad was a senior partner at a law firm
you wear ironic t-shirts
and you quote Spinoza at your shitty job

you studied liberal arts
you studied liberal arts
you studied liberal arts
you studied liberal arts

you spent a semester thinking you were a poet but you just drank too much
you spent three semesters as a lesbian but you didn't like it
your cut off your dreadlocks within six weeks of graduation
Now you're not even the best read barrista in your shitty hometown.

you studied liberal arts
you studied liberal arts
you studied liberal arts
you studied liberal arts

I thought this would be an Anal Cunt thread :(

― Why does the birds always shitting on me? (noodle vague), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 11:29 (5 years ago)

^^^

― The Triumph of the Will High (nakhchivan), Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:14 PM (29 minutes ago) Bookmark

LOL

Fave AC is still either "You live in Allston" or "You Look Divorced".

I was wondering about conspicuous consumption.
Would I be so aware of it if I didn't know what it was?
Probably would be the same level of awareness, just without the definitive terminology.

And does teaching it imply that it's "wrong?"
Should I feel guilty about practicing it?

"Conspicuous consumption" gave us the art & architecture of the Italian Renaissance... it's what wealthy people do when returns on capital investments decline ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I did study liberal arts.

Thread title would be a good Choose Your Own Adventure book.