― Margaret Horne, Saturday, 22 April 2006 12:58 (twenty years ago)
― Onimo (GerryNemo), Saturday, 22 April 2006 13:08 (twenty years ago)
howeveri. if the coffee is hot the cup will be hot (and vice versa)ii. there is anyway a handy get-out here called "transferred epiphet": it is a poetic device -- required in poetry bcz rhythm or rhyme sometimes ensure that stnard prose word order can't be sacrosanct -- which very naturally and easily naturally migrates to prose
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 22 April 2006 13:11 (twenty years ago)
― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Saturday, 22 April 2006 13:22 (twenty years ago)
― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Saturday, 22 April 2006 13:23 (twenty years ago)
(ie the transferral part of "transferred epiphet" correctly maps the situation: the niceness of the tea is objective correlative for and indeed metonymic of the social event)
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 22 April 2006 13:28 (twenty years ago)
― MarkH (MarkH), Saturday, 22 April 2006 13:55 (twenty years ago)
― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Saturday, 22 April 2006 13:58 (twenty years ago)
― Onimo (GerryNemo), Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:02 (twenty years ago)
― emil.y (emil.y), Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:09 (twenty years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:20 (twenty years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:52 (twenty years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 22 April 2006 15:10 (twenty years ago)
― RJG (RJG), Saturday, 22 April 2006 15:11 (twenty years ago)
― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 22 April 2006 15:23 (twenty years ago)
The "cup of hot coffee" form is much more detailed and allows you to make all kinds of interesting distinctions about where the modifier is pointed, but with modifiers like "hot," those are distinctions we just don't need to make. (And if we did need to make them, they'd be unusual enough that we'd spell them out, rather than relying on minor syntax stuff to carry them: if the cup was frozen and the coffee was hot, you'd say "hold up, dude, let me explain something really weird about this coffee.")
With other modifiers you wouldn't do that -- e.g. you'd say "cup of Colombian coffee," because it's actually important to specify which part of the cupofcoffee unit is Colombian.
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 22 April 2006 18:07 (twenty years ago)
― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 22 April 2006 19:11 (twenty years ago)
no, i don't think it should be "cup fo hot cofree" at all.
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Saturday, 22 April 2006 19:47 (twenty years ago)
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 23 April 2006 00:20 (twenty years ago)
i'm intent on proving myself right here. to me, this is the most obvious thing in the world. but my officemates are challenging me, the scoundrels.
which one is correct:
"The production originated at the Chichester Festival, then transferred to a sold-out run in London's West End."
or
"The production originated at the Chichester Festival then transferred to a sold out run in London's West End."
there has to be a comma after Festival.
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 15:26 (seventeen years ago)
Q. What is a comma's favourite song by The Smiths? A. Girlfriend in a Comma! (coma)
― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 15:28 (seventeen years ago)
come on there has to be some kind of commaphile on here who can solve my little grammar puzzle
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 15:38 (seventeen years ago)
You are correct. Don't ask me exactly why but I bet my life on it. Who is suggesting no comma? That person is a moran.
― quincie, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 17:12 (seventeen years ago)
w/comma is definitely correct
― sleep, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 17:14 (seventeen years ago)
Surmounter you should have used the thread for commas!
comma roundtable
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 17:16 (seventeen years ago)
Technically, neither is correct: if I were editing that, I'd put an "and" in place of your comma. But that kind of "comma-then" construction (that you're proposing) is very common and most people probably wouldn't bat an eye at it. The version without the comma is just plain wrong.
― jaymc, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 17:17 (seventeen years ago)
THANK YOU
― Surmounter, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 17:20 (seventeen years ago)
blow up english grammar and start all over again, ugh
― noted schloar (dyao), Sunday, 7 March 2010 14:07 (sixteen years ago)
english grammar should be trotted out as witness #1 in the argument against intelligent design
― noted schloar (dyao), Sunday, 7 March 2010 14:09 (sixteen years ago)
ha tbh it's the only reason i'd ever thank them for invading us, caint as gaeilge is a bitch imo
― quiz show flat-track bully (darraghmac), Monday, 8 March 2010 11:26 (sixteen years ago)
I suppose I should thank them for invading us too, and unifying the tribes
― noted schloar (dyao), Monday, 8 March 2010 12:49 (sixteen years ago)
Icarian? Icarusian? Neither?
― Virtual Bart (EDB), Friday, 2 March 2012 23:54 (fourteen years ago)
Icarus-like?
― Aimless, Saturday, 3 March 2012 00:01 (fourteen years ago)
thermally-challenged
― Streep? That's where I'm a-striking! (darraghmac), Saturday, 3 March 2012 00:01 (fourteen years ago)
Haha, I went with Icarian in the end.
― Virtual Bart (EDB), Saturday, 3 March 2012 00:03 (fourteen years ago)
howeveri. if the coffee is hot the cup will be hot (and vice versa)
<3
― j., Saturday, 18 January 2014 16:34 (twelve years ago)
I would be shocked if this has not popped up on a thread or two, but if so I have no idea where, or whether this is the best place for it, but wow:
“Adjectives in English absolutely have to be in this order: opinion-size-age-shape-colour-origin-material-purpose Noun. So you can have a lovely little old rectangular green French silver whittling knife. But if you mess with that word order in the slightest you’ll sound like a maniac. It’s an odd thing that every English speaker uses that list, but almost none of us could write it out.”
He follows up with another example, "As size comes before colour, green great dragons can't exist."
Discussed at more length, with other "rules we know but don't know we know," here:
https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20160908-the-language-rules-we-know-but-dont-know-we-know
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 7 August 2023 14:46 (two years ago)