This Makes Me Cry -- Please Tell Me It's Bull

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― J (Jay), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:06 (nineteen years ago)

First, what does it say about the media that something so incredibly basic is considered a "gotcha" question? Second, HOW IS IT THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE EVEN TANGENTIALLY RELATED TO MIDDLE EAST POLICY ARE GETTING THIS WRONG? Third, kill me now, because if this is even remotely accurate we're all gonna get killed soon enough anyway.

― J (Jay), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:08 (nineteen years ago)

Ha ha! It would make me cry but I'd have to stop laughing first.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:12 (nineteen years ago)

"one's more radical than the other"

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

Now that you’ve explained it to me, what occurs to me is that it makes what we’re doing over there extremely difficult, not only in Iraq but that whole area.

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:16 (nineteen years ago)

because prior to having that explained to him it all seemed SO SIMPLE

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:17 (nineteen years ago)

doesn't the schism derive from the shi'a belief that mohammed's successor should have rightfully been blood relative ali, mohammed's cousin (and later son-in-law after he married mohammed's only surviving daughter, fatima), whereas the more traditional sunni belief is that since mohammed never explicitly specified a successor and the council chose his caregiver, abu bekr, that any chosen caliph can rightfully rule? shi'a are the majority in iraq, i know that much.

― ath (ath), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:18 (nineteen years ago)

I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture... and kill them.

― Jimmy Mod is COMPLETELY MISERABLE SAN DIEGO (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:19 (nineteen years ago)

Oh come on. Where do you people live? Obviously not in DC. Jesus.

― SOME LOW END BRO (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:19 (nineteen years ago)

just swoop in and plant democracy - remember them carefree days, bein greeted as liberators and whatnot, ah.

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

xxxp - yes pretty much.

― ZR (teenagequiet), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

I bet you imagine there's some kind of culture of accountability for elected officials and appointed civil servants

― SOME LOW END BRO (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:21 (nineteen years ago)

pretty much - the Sunnis recognize the caliphate and that line of succession, the Shi'ite recognize the matrilineal line of succession (via Ali and Fatima, etc.) To greatly oversimplify: Iran has historically been the real driving force behind the Shi'a, the Sunni branches have variously had their center of power in Baghdad, in Egypt, in Turkey, etc. Also worldwide, there are more Sunnis than Shi'a - however both also have their own branches of extremist ("terrorist") adherents .

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:23 (nineteen years ago)

(x-post)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:24 (nineteen years ago)

I mean I'm sorry but the the thread poster is acting really super amazingly naive from my perspective, I get up and go to work in downtown washington every day, it's completely a crapshoot who winds up in charge of what over here. I can't imagine that people in executive positions here would know the answer to ANY of these sorts of questions relevant to their area of responsibility.

It is really a credit to the congressional reps he talked to that they didn't brush the whole thing off. I'm just saying, a glimmer! A glimmer of giving a shit!

― SOME LOW END BRO (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:24 (nineteen years ago)

if someone would just splain stuff to the poor congresspeople maybe we wouldn'y be in this mess in the first place! so why we keep them in the dark we're only hurting ourselves!

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:25 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah I mean does anyone think senators and reps read the bills they vote on?

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:27 (nineteen years ago)

This is not surprising. The US's major blind spot in Iraq, and the Middle East in general, is its inability/unwillingness to understand sectarian divides. Note the difference between "understand" and "know they exist".

― Edward III (edward iii), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:27 (nineteen years ago)

but they all hate freedoms!

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:28 (nineteen years ago)

if someone would just splain stuff to the poor congresspeople maybe we wouldn'y be in this mess in the first place! so why we keep them in the dark we're only hurting ourselves!

Yeah somebody should really go and explain things. It's well documented that facts and ground truth matter more in their fuckin' tiny little heads than the party line. I'm sure if somebody had EXPLAINED habeas corpus to them they never would have just voted the way they did. It's DEFINITELY worth the time of underpaid gophers to have them have to explain every issue to a congressperson.

― SOME LOW END BRO (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:30 (nineteen years ago)

Holiday gift ideas for your local congressperson:

http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Abraham-Insights-into-Middle/dp/1557282935

― Edward III (edward iii), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:31 (nineteen years ago)

What is the difference between a Pentecostal and a Baptist? Or a Presbyterian and an Episcopalian? What was the schism of 1054 all about, really?

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:35 (nineteen years ago)

tombot talkin truth - what we need to do is take some of those underpaid gophers to one of our black sites and teach them a lesson you know set an example these underpaid gophers only understand strength the rest of them should fall in line after that.

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:36 (nineteen years ago)

whats the difference between a pug and a boston terrier - the terriers are on our side, right?

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:37 (nineteen years ago)

it's time for the Supreme Court to reverse its position on partisan gerrymandering and for the electorate to start throwing these stupid corrupt pieces of shit out on the fucking street

― SOME LOW END BRO (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:40 (nineteen years ago)

This is my favorite bit:

It’s a difference in their fundamental religious beliefs. The Sunni are more radical than the Shia. Or vice versa.

- Representative Jo Ann Davis, a Virginia Republican who heads a House intelligence subcommittee charged with overseeing the C.I.A.’s performance in recruiting Islamic spies and analyzing information

I know, I know, Congress is full of no-nothings, film at 11. But you'd think they'd at least want to pretend to sound like they know what they're talking about.

A sharp Democratic candidate could make mincemeat of a "security-minded" Republican opponent by boning up on this stuff... assuming you could find a sharp Democratic candidate...

― Edward III (edward iii), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:41 (nineteen years ago)

maybe a congressman could go on a whitewater facting trip to the grand canyon an have some of those pages explain about schisms fractures buttcracks or whatever to him.

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:41 (nineteen years ago)

and for somebody besides the press to start paying attention to publications coming out of the GAO, who have been pointing out that every dollar spent by the Bush administration has been wasted since 2001

― SOME LOW END BRO (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:41 (nineteen years ago)

if only there was some way to stop the Presbyterian-Episcopalian slaughter.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:41 (nineteen years ago)

naw it's centuries old tribal conflict - nothing can be done.

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:42 (nineteen years ago)

jesus dudes explaining complex issues to government officials is what lobbyists are for duh

― ZR (teenagequiet), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:43 (nineteen years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0486446018.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

― this, however, is the crucial moment from the libertine's point of view (kenan), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:46 (nineteen years ago)

oh i thought they weere for writing the laws

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:46 (nineteen years ago)

as a Presbyterian since birth, i consider you all infidels.

tasty, tasty infidels.

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:46 (nineteen years ago)

AND CASHING THE BILLZ CHACHING!!!

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:47 (nineteen years ago)

We Midwest Lutherans have been terrorizing you with terrible humor for decades.

― Coach Dave (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.eesummit.org/images/swanberg.jpg

― ath (ath), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:57 (nineteen years ago)

Tom, why you always gotta be so mean to me?

― J (Jay), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

it's simple: Sunnis dance like this, while Shi'ites dance like this

― ▒█▄█ ▄▄▄ ▒█▄█ , Tuesday, 17 October 2006 22:19 (nineteen years ago)

It's always mystified me the way people want this distinction to be an easy tell in terms of whether a Muslim is "okay" or not. I remember this being the case way, way before September 11th and the Iraq war. I had a 6th grade teacher who very authoritatively explained the whole Sunni/Shi'ite historical split in our "global studies" class during our unit on Islam, and then tacked on, "and Shi'ites tend to be more extremist." At the time I was too surprised to correct her, and in retrospect, I think her logic probably went something like "Khomeini's Shi'te, so Shi'ites are worse." It just always seems like a desperate move from willful ignorance, like, "I despair of ever understanding these people at all, oh wait, they call themselves different things, maybe that's the secret key to figuring out which ones I need to worry about."

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Sunday, 22 October 2006 18:30 (nineteen years ago)

"Who are the bad guys, catholics or protestants?"

etc etc.

― Trayce (trayce), Monday, 23 October 2006 00:41 (nineteen years ago)

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