babies

wah? (wah wah wah)

I went with her 'cause she looked like you, my god

wanko ftw

let's make some babies andi

no sad face, plz, "Babies" is my favorite Pulp song.

oh now I see wanko beat me to that one

http://jj.am/gallery/d/578-1/BabyScaredByTunnel.gif

OMG! That's the greatest gif ever!

Without babies, shitty song lyrics would be much drabber.

i just bought a onesie as a babyshower gift for a friend who's due next month baby that says "I DRINK TILL I PASS OUT" on it.

i wish i could find a picture on line.

Here's a baby we saw in Lexington Friday.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/WilliamCrump63/babyminihorse.jpg

He was about 2 ft. tall.

How many times have you heard new parents, their eyes bright with happy delerium (or perhaps just lack of sleep), insisting that you don't know what love is until you first lay eyes on your baby? How many of you have reunited with old university buddies who have grown up and spawned, only to find that mouths which once argued about hyperspace and acid rain can't seem to open now without veering into the realm of child-rearing? How many commercials have you seen that sell steel-belted radials by plunking a baby onto one? How many times has rational discourse been utterly short-circuited the moment someone cries "Please, someone think of the children!"? (I've noticed the aquarium industry is particularly fond of this latter strategy, whenever anyone suggests shutting down their captive whale displays.)

You know all this, of course. You know the wiring and the rationale behind it: the genes build us to protect the datastream. The only reason we exist is to replicate that information and keep it moving into the future. It's a drive as old as life itself. But here's the thing: rutting and reproduction are not the traits we choose to exhalt ourselves for. It's not sprogs, but spirit, that casts us in God's image. What separates us from the beasts of the field is our minds, our intellects. This, we insist, is what makes us truly human.

Which logically means that parents are less human than the rest of us.

Stick with me here. All of us are driven by brainstem imperatives. We are all compromised: none of us is a paragon of intellect or rationality. Still, some are more equal than others. There is a whole set of behavioral subroutines that never run until we've actually pupped, a whole series of sleeper programs that kick in on that fateful moment when we stare into our child's eyes for the first time, hear the weird Middle-eastern Dylan riffs whining in our ears, and realise that holy shit, we're Cylons.

That is the moment when everything changes. Our children become the most important thing in the world, the center of existence. We would save our own and let ten others die, if it came to that. The rational truth of the matter— that we have squeezed out one more large mammal in a population of 6.5 billion, which will in all likelihood accomplish nothing more than play video games, watch Inuit Idol, and live beyond its means until the ceiling crashes in— is something that simply doesn't compute. We look into those bright and greedy eyes and see a world-class athlete, or a Nobel Prize-winner, or the next figurehead of global faux-democracy delivered unto us by Diebold and Halliburton.

We do not see the reality, because seeing reality would compromise genetic imperatives. We become lesser intellects. The parental subroutines kick in and we lose large chunks of the very spark that, by our own lights, makes us human.

So why not recognise that with a new political movement? Call it the "Free Agent Party", and build its guiding principles along the sliding scale of intellectual impairment. Those shackled by addictions that skew the mind — whether pharmaceutically, religiously, or parentally induced — are treated the same way we treat those who have yet to reach the age of majority, and for pretty much the same reasons. Why do we deny driver's licences and voting priveleges to the young? Why do we ban drunks from the driver's seat? Because they are not ready. They are not competent to make reasonable decisions. Nobody questions this in today's society. So tell me, how are offspring addicts any different?

I'm thinking of adding such a political movement to the noisy (and slightly satirical) background of an upcoming novel, but the more I think of it, the more it strikes me as an idea whose time has come. It's a no-lose electoral platform as far as I can see.

Now go find me a campaign manager.

you are both correct and amazing.

I would only add that Having Kids is the only thing that saves most people from Contemplating The Void, and that the Void is the only thing that saves the rest of us from being totally fucking boring.

i didn't write that, btw. forgot to link here:

http://rifters.com/real/crawl.htm

it's a blog entry by science fiction writer Peter Watts. it isn't something i necessarily agree with all the way, but "hey, just throwing it out there", etc.

it's damn good, it really is.

he's a really good author, he writes these chilly SF novels written from a sociobiological perspective.

not chilly enough for me.

:)

There is another argument, though, and a good one. Because babies are the ultimate investment in the future. Real futurists have babies.

While I appreciate the Swiftian nature of that blog entry, surely this notion that when you have a kid you also have a lobotomy is a very tired cliché by now?

it's really not

it happens, it happens every day, it happens to people you know!

No. That's just the self-serving perspective of the non-child-rearing friends of the parents.

weird atomized generation o'mine

i've just recently invested in a niece, first kid out of the family.

hasn't really involved a huge change of perspective in the father, but he's fairly laid back anyway. i think parenthood leaves people with less time and energy for internet philosophy and solving the earth's problems, true. as to whether this equals lobotomy, hmmm.

Parenthood leaves one with less time for other things, for sure. So does studying medicine or making a movie or any number of other things. I guess what sometimes alienates friends of new parents is the essentially private nature of parenthood. A child is a thing of joy for the parents and immediate family. But of only limited (if any) interest to anyone else.

that's usuaally true, but doesn't have to be. (i'm standing in for tuomas -- sling in a reference to tribal societies and the way they do families here if you like.)

tribal societies 'do' families?

this discussio is gross just fuck and make babies plz

i think parenthood leaves people with less time and energy for internet philosophy

so what am i doing on ilx?

talking about parenthood :-)

From elsewhere, names changed to protect the innocent.

Today's been the most trying day of fatherhood that I've ever had. Mrs. *** went to *** to see one of her oldest friends yesterday, and ***'s been just killing me today. The highlight was when instead of taking a nap, he combined his new passion for ripping his diaper off with his biological urge to excrete waste. It took me almost half an hour to clean up all the shit off of him, his bed, his wall, and his carpet. I'm still too close to this to find it funny, but someday maybe. And that's only one of about 300 stories I could tell you from today.

i guess the contributions on www.truemomconfessions.com are inevitably biased toward the negative but I read it a lot and it's horrifying.

xxpost guilty as charged. :-)

god hates parents

That's just the self-serving perspective of the non-child-rearing friends of the parents.

go directly to hell, do not pass go.

As if there's nothing self-serving about having children. Pleez.

Kenan, you've been awfully cunty lately.

Sometimes I miss the old me. :)

I'm sorry, I just told my ex to go fuck herself for the first time ever, and I feel like I'm on a roll.

It's actually... painful.

latebloomer, it is true that babies mess with your mind [read: 'reduce it to bland, but happy, mush'], but this is required before the rebuilding process can begin. It's a process. A p-r-o-c-e-s-s. Do not be put off by the fact this process always ends in death. It is designed that way on purpose.

xposts Srsly, though, the argument that NOT having children is selfish just sticks in my craw. That shit is bullshit.

And to prove how bullshit it is, you should go out and buy a puppy and a kitten and a guppy and a parrot.

wtf does that have to do with anything?

Srsly, though, the argument that NOT having children is selfish just sticks in my craw.

I agree completely, but I haven't seen that argued on this thread.

this is wht set me off:

That's just the self-serving perspective of the non-child-rearing friends of the parents.

What could be more selfless than to feed, house and desex babies that are not even of your species? Especially if you do not eat them later on.

pets are not children.

bingo!

i'm lost, teach me, master.

Selfishness is not attached to parenthood or to not-parenthood. They are not just separable, but entirely separate matters. Selfishness is an attitude. Parenthood is a state or condition. Neither one implies the other.

When people connect them, as some have done on this thread, it is a matter of ordinary ignorance, not worth your anger.

fair enough, but know this: I didn't start it.

ok, maybe i'm not ready for kids.

you people are as bad as creationists in your total misunderstanding of evolutionary processes

fuck it: your total lack of understanding of the animal kingdom. humans take better care of their children than most animals do while at the same time having more nuanced care-taking behavior than just about any animal. so how does child-rearing make us less human? just because we reproduce? by that argument you could say it makes parents closer to plants than the rest of us.

so how does child-rearing make us less human?

WHOA whoa

sounds like everybody packed a bag for this argument.

when my brother or friends start talking to me about their children, I automatically fall into my zombie polite vague replies. because seriously, unless your baby can suck his own dick by now, I just can't be that interested in how your special baby thinks ice cream is cold.

oh man, I am so never being invited to another kid's birthday party again.

Have children - it's great. 4 months in and I'm thoroughly enjoying myself. I suffer far less road rage and the crushing tedium of everyday existence now seems like a mere sideshow...

Ach, maybe having a kid does kill off a few brain cells/direct the remaining ones down a single poop-stained track for a while. But in my experience, parents who were intelligent before their kids arrived pretty much stay intelligent. And dumb shits stay dumb shits whether they breed or not.

Oh also self-serving is not exactly a synonym for selfish. Both parents and non-parents are self-serving in that we all choose to believe things about the purpose of life etc which conveniently validate our decisions, right?

right. No really, I give you all that.

because seriously, unless your baby can suck his own dick by now, I just can't be that interested in how your special baby thinks ice cream is cold.

see, this is precisely why i enjoyed working with kids (i was a ski instructor for 3-5 year olds for two years): they're hilarious. they're smaller than real people, so simple tasks like getting something off a table become serious business. they're curious, but since they really haven't seen/experienced anything yet, their curiosity is directed towards shit that we think is really boring and obvious. "kids say the darnedest things" = cliche, but sort of true.

then again, i only had to deal with them for six hours at a time, and never had to deal with any real problems.

bathroom triage was really the biggest problem, aside from getting them dressed for winter and teaching them how skis work

babies with guns

http://jj.am/gallery/d/578-1/BabyScaredByTunnel.gif

^^^^ this is precisely why i think babies are funny.

for me, going through a tunnel is just another part of driving

for a baby, who's been having an otherwise awesome little time, going through a tunnel = sheer terror and confusion, followed by a little refractory period of what the hell just happened there

if i want a similar experience, i have to do drugs, whereas babies deal with that shit constantly.

"wait a minute, it's WINDY? INSIDE?? WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?"

"that's a fan, they're usual"

this just reminds me of that Onion article "We Must Preserve The Earth's Dwindling Resources For My Five Children".

this epidemic of pregnancy has hit a lot of my friends recently and when they tell me they are pregnant, i make sure to ask first if they are happy before saying congratulations. i make sure they didn't just get knocked up and are pissed about it. i do like buying Rodys for kids though.

that gif reminds me of when I was filling in for my sister, who used to nanny, and took the kids she sits for to the zoo. The younger one, who was about two, was totally delighted by the monkeys for about 15 minutes, after which point she became suddenly terrified, on a dime. it was kind of amazing.

omg is that me? is that a mirror???

To all the haters:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/216/479975789_6fc3a68048.jpg

Thing is, being a parent is so frickin' HARD (and don't get me started about twins...), we just don't want to hear about how selfish and less-than-human we all are, especially not from all our still-childless, fun-having friends. How about this - we stop telling you about how our eyes light up when our babies barf, and you stop telling us your weird, defensive justifications for not having kids.

OTM

I AM selfish, hence I tell myself I don't want kids because I like doing what I want all the time, and can't really understand why anyone wouldn't want that.
However I am also prone to feeling mildly broody, or whatever the proper term is for the random urge to have kids that has no basis in reality or rational fact. It's kind of interesting at the moment cos I can bat it away and at least can recognise that it's not something I actually want, just my body/the human race trying to trick me into doing something I won't feel too great about afterwards (like when it tries to trick me into eating big tubs of ice cream)...

I'm not sure why ANYone is getting defensive, that whole childless movement thing and its backlash are SO two years ago, at least. Everyone here is goign to do whatever they've made up their minds to do, and do it happily regardless of what appears in this thread, right?

And Peter Watts isn't strictly wrong but he IS an idiot. Why don't the opinions of people with children, who presumably have an extra stake in the future of this earth, humanity, take your pick, hold MORE weight for our political & social decisions insead of LESS, seeing as how per Watts's reasoning they've got more to lose if their genetic material is discarded? Answer: because nothing is a guarantee of how farsighted or thoughtful or ecologically or socially minded a person will be, except who the person actually IS. Duh.

Those little crazy baldheads are awfully cute.

The Schwantz twins are MAGICAL LOOKING, don't let me near them or I will eat ALL THIS ROSY CHEEKS for a mid-day snack.

I like cheeks. My niece's cheeks are so big it makes her whole head a square shape.

I think the only time I get defensive about not wanting kids is when people who have kids ask me when I am going to have kids, after I have already been telling them for the past 5 years I'm not. I don't go around asking parents when did they decide to give up on their goals and project them onto their offspring instead.

I remember phil-two being way into hot dads pushing strollers.

Cheeks - check. Hot dad - check. Stroller - check. AND BEER - CHECK. (Sorry.)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/240/520328039_0d3caf8e99.jpg?v=0

Babies love beer. At least I did.

I think I'm of the River Wolf school of thought when it comes to babies. I just find them so fascinating and funny. That gif is fantastic.

I always thought I'd have kids once day but it was never my ultimate goal or something I've dreamed of since I was little. Maybe it was getting married, maybe it was turning 29, I don't know but something happend to me in the last year or so. I'm damn glad I have a highly effective form of birth control that needs to be removed by a doctor because lately all I think about is BABIES. It's totally ridiculous and scares the crap out of me because we're nowhere near ready to have any yet but seriously . . . LOOK AT THOSE CHEEKS ON THE LITTLE ONES ABOVE!

I'm afraid most of the friends' children that I really like and am fascinated by are atypical for their ages, so it's hard to say...I like kids, but I'm not sure I like "kids", you know?

I do like kids, but I do like not to have any of my own. I wish my brothers would have some, though, so I can be the auntie who sends them money in a card (or the new-fangled equivalent).

I have three nieces and a nephew. On their birthdays I send them a dollar for each year of their age and a sheet of stickers. (I plan on upping that buck per year when they hit ten.)

I also constantly collect $1-2 dollar toys at the drugstore, Target, etc. Then when I get to see them (only every 4-5 months) I can give them bags and bags of crap! hurrah!

that whole childless movement thing and its backlash are SO two years ago, at least.

this may be less of a "movement" and more of a "getting older" thing

xp: Ms. M, you're a wonder. Now I want my brothers to have kids even more. Hurry up, brothers, get breeding!

OMG! That's the greatest gif ever!

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f185/PappaWheelie/POd_ronald.gif

rong.

Say what you will about babies in general but this is pretty interesting. Turns out that babies speak dog.

btw no babies upset during study process in case you were concerned:

Study co-authors . . . don’t recall any babies getting upset.

“Many of them enjoyed it,” said Hyde. “Others just looked.”

Erica I think you need to get a dog already, it'll be easier & cheaper than you're worried about.

LOL. It's not really cost or inconvenience. I'm more concerned about leaving a puppy alone for 9+ hour stretches of time while I'm at work.

It just doesn't seem fair. Dogs need company.

Get a baby AND a dog then.

They know how to talk to each other, apparently. Problems solved!

LOOOOOOL. But yeah - no way no how. At least not any time soon, that is.

For babby I mean. If I suddenly come into tons of money and can stop working I would get a puppy pretty much immediately.

We got a puppy TWO DAYS before finding out we were having a baby. Our little girl is due in three weeks. Should make for an interesting year.

Aw . . . congratulations. It'll be fine - they'll hang out and be BFFs.

Thanks! Yeah, I think it'll be good. He loves kids and seems very in tune to their body language.

Hopefully your two will get on as well as these two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYl8SYNuaKQ

it's gotten bad--basically anytime i walk anywhere with my gf i point out all the awesome dogs we see like i'm 5. but yeah city folk w/fulltime jobs really shouldn't have 'em imo.

Yeah, I agree. :-(

I hope our Cavalier will be as good as this one is with his baby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AosigU-BDS4

I used to always find babies and children a little too gross to be beautiful, maybe cute like a baby elephant that you'd rather not go near.

But recently I've found a lot of them adorable but also really scared of how vulnerable they are. I've never wanted children and this new appreciation makes the idea even more nightmarishly terrifying.

I get a lot of humanitarian emails and two recent ones had photos of babies that made me cry. I hope this won't be a regular feeling.