The nice and the good

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or "I have spent my whole life in ruins because of people who are nice": Discuss.

What is the difference between good and being nice? Was there an equivalent word when 'nice' still just meant 'subtle, precise or fastidious' (or obsfoolish, ignorant, wanton or shy).

Did your English teacher ban you from using 'nice' in your homework?

― N., Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have no answers.

― N., Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This world just lacks style.

― Anna, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

which is why my English teacher banned us all from using nice. (sorry - that was a bit of a lyric shoehorn there).

Nice people will not harm you, unless you mean nice as in 'oh he's such a nice boy' read: repressed, conservative and boring.

― Anna, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

possibly the saddest dat for me last year was when I was referred to as a really nice boy.

Since then I've tried to be a right bastard.

― chris, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Style = bastards, chris?

N.B. I am not having this turn into another why do women like bastards thread.

I think maybe I'm nice but not very good. I try to avoid causing pain or upset, but don't actively go out and change the world for the better very much. So in the 'if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem' slogan sense, I am rubb, but in the 'if everyone was like me' (what a terrible thought) formula, I am maybe OK.

― N., Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

me and Nick are the same person, I'm convinced. except we fancy different girls. and I can take throw ins.

― chris, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I meant as nice in a Daily Mail reader seal of approval way.

Nice in the 'not horrible' sense is only a good thing and you should be proud to be described as such Chris. Of course if peoplee had listened to their English teachers they would have employed a much better and more descriptive word for you.

― Anna, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

yes nice is bland but the alternatives are overrated. there is a difference between nice and good (eg someone can be nice and bad).

― fritz, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But I do that too. And I definatley don't fancy the same people.

Or I just do small things like giving money to homeless people or having a No Logo induced guilt fit when shopping. I donate to certain charities, but never try to change the world.

― Anna, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That said, the thought of being an out and out BITCH is secretly thrilling. But I just couldn't do it.

― Anna, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oh go on.. It's payback time, or something.

Fritz - can you flesh out your conception of someone who is 'nice and bad'?

― N., Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't know...I want strangers or people who don't know me very well to think I am nice, that is innocuous. But, for the people who know me well, then I would hope they think I am more than just nice.

― jel --, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think Nick is nice but bad and Cabbage is nice and good. Nick is bad because he can say some things sometimes which are bordering on the hurtful, but I still want to cuddle him.

― Mark C, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I only do that to you Mark. Anyway, I reckon that would make me not nice. But like I say, it's only you and you are a monster.

― N., Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Shyness is nice, but that's the wrong lyric!

I'm not sure what you're asking when you wonder if there's an equivalent word when the archaic definition of nice=ignorant -- equivalent to what word?

Anyway, it couldn't hurt to look at a dictionary definition. Try www.m-w.com

I think the notion that nice people cause you grief and ruin could be related to entries 6 & 7 in the m-w dictionary -- "nice" as a synonym for "respectable," "socially acceptable," "well-bred," etc. which may be Wildean codewords for hypocritically polite and insincere pharisees who are overly concerned with maintaining correct outward form while failing to tend to the inner corruption.

― melinda mess-injure, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I just meant which word did people use in the past to mean what we use 'nice' for now? 'Pleasant'? Not quite the same. I was implying that perhaps the word evolved to fill a gap that had developed in language; that in centuries past people just didn't have the need for the word, and I was interested as to the reasons why this might be the case. Is the slippery concept of 'niceness' a fairly modern development?

― N., Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

presuably the old word evolved out of nice's way: eg ppl used to use "handsome" (say) in this sense, but it came to mean "fit", and "nice" weebled into its place...

― mark s, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well you might be right, but I don't think there's any 'presuably' about it. Do you not think it's possible that it could be a case of language reflecting shifts in psycho-social thinking?

― N., Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

by "nice and bad" I mean someone who is superficially pleasant and polite but cruel below the surface - so maybe I meant one can appear to be nice and in fact be bad.

― fritz, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

yes, everyone in the olden days was horrible as proved by linguistics

― mark s, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I did not mean that.

― N., Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I do think that 'nice' has been watered down by popular culture, etc. etc. to a point where it no longer means 'nice', but rather that it means lack of an appropriate adjective. Someone says "nice" when they do not know what else to say. I would prefer to use something else. However, I think there are times when if someone is being genuine in their application of 'nice', it can be detected. Sometimes, someone really is.. nice! I think 'good' is an entirely different subject. I will start the 'good' thread.

― Mandee, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

If preceded by really it's a boring way of saying something meaningful. It's used as a dig a bit sometimes, like "yes she's really 'NICE' ugh" for people who are dull and too nice. My teachers never banned it, but I can't see how I'd use nice when writing about Larkin or Shakespeare or something anyway. But then English was the only subject I was good at per se.

― Ronan, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As the supposedly nicest board member -- I like nice. But the good nice.

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

being nice for me can have two meanings. the first is to describe someone who is genuinely nice. the second is to describe someone who is diplomatic. i don't much like diplomacy, i prefer people to say what they mean and tell the truth even if the truth isn't necessailry what someone wants to hear. basically, diplomatic people are gutless wonders, they should be BANNED!

― di, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i agree with you up to a point di

― mark s, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Mark makes a good point, but then again so does Di.

― fritz, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

There are two sides to every story. I think this is extremely unfair, I champion the cause of the third side.

― jel --, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

well actually it only annoys me cos i am dumm and trusting and take people at face value. i'm learning though - its just a process of trial and error really. and plenty of people who have done that whole diplomacy crap with me are still my friends, so i was somewhat overstating the case.

― di, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This thread isn't nice.

― Kim, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I like nice people, as in genuinely nice as described by di, above. Nice people will not deliberately fux0r you over. If you are not nice you can go fuck yerself. Er, hang on a minute......

― Norman Phay, Monday, 25 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

eleven months pass...

All I think I am is nice, and it hasn't got me very far at all. I don't think I have many other qualities, and if people don't think I'm nice, then I'm skrewed.

My stereo just broke.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 6 March 2003 21:48 (twenty-three years ago)

oh, it's okay, it just came back to life. *phew*

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 6 March 2003 21:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Incidentally, I'm fairly sure that the word that used to mean what "nice" means today is 'hende'. This is obsolete by like the 15th century, though, so presumably there's something in between.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 6 March 2003 22:01 (twenty-three years ago)

two years pass...

this is a good thread.

― kephm (kephm), Thursday, 30 June 2005 02:42 (twenty years ago)

nineteen years pass...

nice once meant fastidious, but it eventually drifted elsewhere until it meant mildly pleasant or unobjectionable. to call someone or something nice is to grant it a sliver of mealy-mouthed praise. good is made of much sturdier stuff and demands a higher standard of excellence. All hail the good people and things in life!

― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 2 November 2024 04:17 (one year ago)

eleven months pass...

ah but is it

― Wichita Referee's Assistant (darraghmac), Thursday, 30 October 2025 22:43 (seven months ago)

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