Yay, back (new host/12 ft lizards info, post here!)

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Okay, we need to keep a regularly updated thread from here on in -- what we're doing to find a new host, set up a new board, etc.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

So post it all here! No more complacency! :-)

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

been following the debate on the yahoo group. Unfortunately, I don't have the computer know how or the time to help but can ppl please stop discussing rub. like URL names (Tom: just pick one and go with that) and actually get on with a move. The discussion has to stop some day. I'd also like to say that any improvements are not vital. ILX is good as it is. Any improvements can be added later if really necessary.

― Julio DEsouza, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I sympathize, and others you'll have seen also agree for the need for haste. But the more of the basic worries and concerns we can settle beforehand, the better.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

AND RELAX! (nice to be back, I'll not take up this space, when there are important issues to discuss!)

― jel --, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

will phil greenspun give us a copy of the app to run on another server elsewhere?

― Ed, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

will he lend us his dog to piss on the server every couple of months?

― mark s, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ronan to thread! (sorry couldn't resist!)

― jel --, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The actual source code itself apparently is not that hard to work with/recreate -- Brian, Andrew in Australia, Graham and others have seen it and can readily work with it (remember, it's a fairly old code and quite simple in ways). The main concern lies in the archiving and bringing over of all the old threads. They have all been archived, mind you (Mike Daddino does that weekly), but there's a question about integrating them with the new setup -- they might have to be read only.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Here's a question for the legal types. Who actually 'owns' the old threads? Could Greenspun prevent us from taking them to this new site?

Not that I'd imagine he's want to. Apart from the bangbus thread perhaps.

― Billy Dods, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Is it possible to start a new board and work on the integration of the archives as an ongoing project? Sorta like getting settled and then getting back to 'normal'?

― jel --, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I really doubt he'd care at all -- he probably has something on his main page saying or linking to a bit about how all opinions expressed are those of the posters and since this is a free and public posting forum it's all happy etc.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It's theoretically possible to download all the old threads as one monolithic file. apparently it's trivial to integrate that into whatever DB scheme is settled upon. Assuming greenspun stays up I'm going to download it tonight or tomorrow. However, a la the statscock, it may not actually work, so Daddino's archives may be what saves it all.

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The statscock works, it's just very slow. I got login and cookies dine this morning.

Anyway, suggestions for new features, changes in behaviour, stuff you definitely want kept, ect please.

― Graham, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't mind as long as the new place works.

― DG, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

what db is going to be behind the new system? mySQL? where would it be hosted? is it possible to get traffic figures from Greenspun so the hosting cost can be worked out? so many questions...

one idea to save bandwidth is to only display the most recent 20 posts or so on the stupidly long threads (like the Jay-Z vs Nas ones), with a link to the full lot. each hit on those is 1Mb+

also i can devote my extensive current free time to coding/testing. when can we see it?

― michael, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey, if it were possible...could we have a time the message was posted at feature?

― jel --, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Would I be run out of the building for suggesting UBB?

― Mark, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes. ;-) More to the point, I am now reminded that Andrew in Australia has said he can host the site easily enough, so it's just a matter of the programming and set-up, which is being worked on. So to hell with UBB or any of that, we don't need it.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(I shouldn't be so snippy! I understand why you suggested it, fret not. :-) )

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ned's having a bris party and we're all invited! (Erm.)

― Dan Perry, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

the problem with stuff like UBB is they're slow, insecurely written, and usually store the messages in files, not a database. storing data in files is just asking for trouble once you get more than a few hundred messages.

― michael, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Granted, UBB has issues, but there are tons of obvious benefits to it. There's a reason that it's so popular: nice interface, editing abilities, search capability, etc.

I don't know enough about ILX/Greenspun's history, so please refresh me: why exactly do we use this messaging software anyway?

― Mark, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I should qualify that last post by stressing that I *do* like a lot about the current interface, but if hard-pressed, I don't know if I'd be able to say precisely what it is that I like about it.

Just curious. It seems like an odd choice, and one obviously lacking in many key features...

― Mark, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

why it's used? it's fast, free, simple, reliable (until recently). the simple, text based pages get picked up easily by search engines. something like UBB really wouldn't be able to keep up with the hits ILX gets.

― michael, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ned's having a bris party and we're all invited! (Erm.)

Indeed, Mr. Perry.

One big reason we're here -- no banner/popup ads! ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

We need to keep this all google-able, right??

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Why is keeping the archive Googleable a major priority?

Also: are you *sure* that UBB couldn't handle ILX's traffic? I've seen much bigger boards than this work fine with UBB...

― Mark, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

If not as googleable as greenspun, having some sort of higher-profile site helps in getting attention (sometimes unwanted, sure) and attracting new folks to the fora. Which is always worthy. :-) But this isn't necessarily an overriding or required consideration.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

What is UBB?

― jel --, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(I think Tracer was pointing out that "Ned Raggett +bris" will eventually start bringing up results in Google.)

― Dan Perry, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

UBB = Ultimate Bulletin Board. i am stand corrected, it does you mySQL for storage, i was thinking it was one of the crappy file storage ones.

― michael, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It has the worst user experience in the world. Reading a UBB board is like looking at a user interface, with people trying to communicate hidden somewhere inside (I know it's customizable and we can strip out all the nonsense, but still, I).

jel, I can add times, but it made the board look really official and formal. We need a vote.

― Graham, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I second the time feature, it's commonplace on most messageboards.

Name change in deference to an eminently charming man :-)

― Saskia, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i thought of an essential, (existing) feature - the 'new answers' pages are cached, but you probably noticed that already

― michael, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Who actually 'owns' the old threads? Could Greenspun prevent us from taking them to this new site?

Nobody. No.

― felicity, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Uh - can I just say that the times thing is REALLY DAMN CONFUSING for kids in different timezones (NZ kids/UK kids/US kids = many many different hours) and it just gets distracting.

― Sarah, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not tech-y enough to contribute to this properly, but UBB boards always look so tacky with all those flashing emoticons and huge signitures and stupid colours. Can we keep IL* minimalist? Just for style reasons, go on.

― Anna, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

since the pages would be dynamically generated there's no reason why you couldn't set your timezone preference via a cookie and have the times displayed in your local timezone. obviously they'd be stored in GMT in the database. this wouldn't work for the cached new answers page though

― michael, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

agreed re: simplicity. it also makes it look less obvious for those avoiding work, and makes it easier to copy and paste text etc. if you wanted to get fancy it could display pages with individual colour/font preferences

― michael, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't want to see the time on postings.

― Tim, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

this thread nowhere mentions where this new ILX is located, is that "policy" or something?

― UOIU, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

it is located in cyberspace duane

― mark s, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Currently it's nomadic duane (ie It changes every time I reconnect to the modern interweb).

Michael, what's your point about New Answers cacheing. Generating the page is quite computationally expensive, so it probably does need to be cached, but is there a reason you mention it?

― Graham, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

As soon as we've got a fixed location and a date for the migration we'll announce it, don't worry.

No to UBB-style emoticons and sigs.

― Tom, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

:-(

Just kidding.

― Nicole, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

having to use html is essential. It wouldn't be ILe without messed up html! www.angelfire.com/wy/bby2k/haha.gif

― jel --, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Here's what I've done:

Normally it displays:
-- Graham ([email protected]), July 18th 2002

Click the "Show Extras" link at the end of each thread, and it reloads the thread with:
-- Graham ([email protected]), July 18th 2002 10:54 PM (graham) (link)

(Plus it hides email addresses if you're not logged in)

― Graham, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Nice!

― RickyT, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Being able to link to a brief profile of a regular poster would be great - I'd have particularly appreciated that a few months back, when I was new here. That looks excellent, Graham.

― Martin Skidmore, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

down with all features

― Josh, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean, seriously, fuck features

― Josh, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Right you fuckers, I just spent THREE AND A HALF HOURS STRAIGHT writing a routine to lay out categories at the bottom of the questions page fully hierarchically, so you'd better fucking use them.

(actually I was quite happy to have something difficult to do, seeing as everything else has been relatively straightforward)

― Graham, Saturday, 20 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Given that a number of IL*-ers participate at work with their fingers hovering over the Alt & Tab keys, & the widely expressed desire for easy Google-ability, I don't think that having the times on posts is a good idea.

06:44 on Sunday morning, honest Boss!

― David, Sunday, 21 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

word

― Josh, Sunday, 21 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah but you just say "it's timezones boss, timezones, DO YOU SEE?"

― mark s, Sunday, 21 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Does anyone here have broadband and a CD recorder? (ideally someone I see at FAPs) I need to get a copy of the current ILE archives to test stuff out with. If so, the relevant authorities can give you an admin password, so that you can download <"http://greenspun.com/bboard/vg_stats.tcl?topic=I%20Love%20Everything&separator=$[}{$">this link (NB don't use the link on the admin page) and save it onto a CD (It should be a couple of hundred MB).

― Graham, Sunday, 21 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I have it for ILM, Graham! I still haven't got ILE successfully. I didn't see your post before so ILM is delimited by carats instead of your thingies - hopefully still useful? It's EVERY post in one big HTML file, and each post has got its own database ID number. Email me about ftp maybe? I can do CD too, but it'll take me a few days that way.

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 22 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

How big is the file?

The problem with only using carats is as soon as you get a message or email address or name where someone has used the one, you either manually have to edit it out, or write an incredibly complicated that can work out what's going on (which would be ,uch more possible if the Row delimeter was something other than <BR>, grr). I don't think it's worth making me a CD in this format, but can you email me the first megabyte (oldest messages so it gets all the questions too)?

― Graham, Monday, 22 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(and zip/stuff the file first, and I can probably handle a few megabytes, five maybe?)

― Graham, Monday, 22 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Will do this eve

― Tracer Hand, Monday, 22 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

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