My present to you all

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Now COMPLAIN about it.

I've set up a test site on Tripod (ignore the ads) to show off what I've done nu-ILX. It's mostly complete- a few things don't quite work yet (webmail, some user settings, it does very little to check what people enter, ect), but most things look like how they will work.

But I want you to whinge about every detail, if there's anything you want changed or added, or anything I kept that you wanted change SAY SO (Be especially harsh on wording and terminology). Just be really, really fucking nitpicky, OK?

Graham, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Try out all the features, start threads, post messages, sign up (passwords are kept encrypted, so I can't find them out), play with user settings, ect, ect.

Improvements:

  • [Optional] users and passwords ect, prevents impersonation, allows custom settings, and messages will link back to an about you page. (I've tried to design this so there's no *need* to login or register, and I have thought about browsers that don't support cookies).
  • Dates and times can be changed to your time zone
  • Email addresses are hidden unless you're logged in - this should prevent spam bots and such
  • Unanswered questions now automatically appear (in bold) on the new answers page
  • Consistent design on every page
  • Direct links to New Questions and New Answers on the boards page
  • Web mail lets you email other posters from your browser
  • Permalinks to individual messages
  • Optional time stamps on messages
  • Hierarchial category system

Graham, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(I'll send out source code to anyone who wants it (who?) later this week when I've tidied it up)

Graham, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

is nice. top marks. is this the result of lots of 12ftlizards to and fro? i haven't really been keeping tabs on it. I love the idea that we could all co-operate linux style with the code maintenance -- esp as many of us seem to be PHP'd up.

is tripod php slow? i don't even recall tripod doing PHP leave alone whichevr variety of SQL! -- certainly not when I joined. i'll just go and have a play on my server now...

Alan T, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't know if I am meant to reply on old ILE on Nu ILE.

It looks really good ( well a lot like this one)

I like the way you can write a message and still see the entire thread.

I will give more comments once I have used it a bit more

Thanks Graham.

Davel, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

possible nitpick: andrew's version seemed to work faster?

(i'm confused abt whether these are two options we will have to choose between, or two HEROES OF ILX working on the same project but difft continents...)

mark s, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

it might be good on NEW QUESTIONS Nu-ILa to have a quick jump portal onto NEW QUESTIONS Nu-ILb (and vice versa): ditto with RECENT ANSWERS ILa/b??? (ie not to have to go via the intermediate boards page?)

mark s, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Slowness prolly just down to server more than anything else. Only one real nitpick for me, and it's the top of page layout. It would be nice to drop the boards:nuilx:I love XXXXX line on the new Q and new A pages and instead have the board name above the new questions line, like greenspun has on the first page of the board.

RickyT, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Graham it's going to take awhile to burn a CD of ILM for you -- I havena a CD burner. If I can ftp somewhere, email me.

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i have broadband and a CD burner if that's any help...

michael, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

lookin good, btw!

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

OO! A profile! nice

Alan T, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

coo i haf not looked yet but it sounds pretty spiffing!

katie, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

In case it wasn't obvious from my playing around with the site, I think it would be best if new Boards could only be created at a Moderator's discretion.

Jeff W, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

where is a good forum for feedback/suggestions? I have one teensy suggestion re a meta refresh on "Added" pages etc (so you auto re-direct back to an appropriate page after a short pause)

Alan T, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

good forum = LUSENET?

didyousee etc, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

http://shaft207.freeservers.com/doh1.gif

OH No! I broke it :-/

Alan T, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

You PUNK, Alan.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This is tremendous work, Graham - you deserve enormous credit and gratitude for this (you have my thanks). The 'new message' box at the end of a thread is great - you can easily check back and quote. Wonderful. The anchors for each message are valuable too, as is the facility for us all to knock up a quick profile, and the ability to jump from a message to said profile.

Two things, though: you say that emails are hidden if you are not logged in, but that wasn't the case, at least for me. More importantly, I think, there are a number of dead ends in standard navigation paths where we get to otherwise blank pages with "Poster Added", "Poster Info Changed", "Logged In" or "Message Added" (the ones I found in a quick play). A short message and a redirect (usually to the Boards level, but refreshing the thread to which you have just posted is a very good idea in that case) might be better, or a popped-up alert for you to acknowledge while the same happens, or something like that - there are lots of design options here, but these "what do I do next? How do I get anywhere?" dead ends are bad.

I haven't tried from more than one machine (I'll try to have a look from work tomorrow) but I want to be able to log in easily from wherever I am. I don't mind at all entering a password once per session, to help cut a lot of abuses.

Martin Skidmore, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

A great big reply to stuff here and on the new board:

Alan: PHP and MySQL, and it does seem to be a bit slow.

Mark S: What I've written will probable be put up on Andrew's server when it's finished, and I'll add ILE<->ILM links.

RickyT: That top bit does need redesigning.

Add New Board should be users only, but I hadn't got that far when I programmed it.

I'll do something about the message added/login pages, they're very unfinished right now.

Automatic line breaks are definitely doable.

I don't get the problem with cookies, you should be able to login (and save cookies) on as many computers and browsers as you like. Maybe you're using the Register link again instead of the Login link?

Graham, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Graham, you should make able to see who posts the threads on the side of it, its boring now to know who made the thread without having to look at it, like

Video Hits: Classic or Dud(Chupa-Cabras)

Chupa-Cabras, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

oh and also the thing i tould you on AIM bout having a cookie that can make the info always appear

Chupa-Cabras, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

and the Thred Added and Message Added thingie shoudl take us directly to the message or the new questions page (sorry if im being too annoying)

Chupa-Cabras, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Graham, I've only begun looking at it, but tis great! Will other features be added, or is that all?

(I'll ring you tomorrow, BTW)

Nichole Graham, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I like the "success!" page. it's nice to have a real confirmation. but a link back is OTM.

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Are we going to at least get rid of that idiotic 'send every post to anonymous sock puppets just for the asking' function? That would be -really- nice. If you want every single post, read the damn board.

Dean Air, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This is a very early try out thing Nichole, there's loads of stuff still to be finished (though I don't really have any secret plans for new features that I haven't mentioned and/or put on the site, so I suppose you can tell what the finished thing will be like).

The rubbish confirmation pages are linked to me not having done much work on checking what people enter i.e. the scripts that insert message ect are v.v. simple.

Graham, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

grrrraham, are you a riot grrrrrrl?

di, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i am liking the test site a lot.

di, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Thank you.

New improvements:

- Rearranged page titles
- New Answers page now has subheadings for dates
- Added links between ILE and ILM
- Changed "short username" references to "Login name"
- Basic automatic line breaks - one break becomes <BR>, two become - Add new board now available only to registered users (I like the idea of people being able to start their own adjunct/clique/ect, but I suppose if P**dle Support Group or someone turns up, we tell them to off)
- Email addresses are now checked for an @ symbol, mainly for people confused by me swapping over the fields to a more logical (?) order
- Success/failure pages are still rub - no autodirects, links ect, yet.

Graham, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I got this when I tried to visit in two browsers (Mozilla and IE, both on a Macintosh running OS X): Parse error:

parse error, expecting `','' or `';'' in boards.php on line 41

However you are awesome for doing this whether I get to see it or not

John Darnielle, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

- "Wanker." now appended at random to 1 in 20 messages. Ditto "And then they lez up".

(two line breaks become <P>, if you don't get the, erm literal demonstration)

Graham, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Of course you'll get to see it, John. You're going to be installed as a patron saint and you'll plug the site at every show on your upcoming tour. Er, yes?

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

John, that was a typo in something I changed quickly just before I uploaded it, and I fixed it about 2 minutes later.

I've implemented yahoo style address hiding for people who aren't logged in (dtcd@b...). Do people like it?

Graham, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Graham, once more with feeling: you rule. I love absolutely every new addition, esp. the fact that you've preserved the look of ILX while increasing the functionality tenfold. I'm v. excited to see the final product, if it has all the tweaks we've been suggesting then I think it'll be a slam dunk.

Mark, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, also:

DOES ANYBODY IN THIS BITCH KNOW WHEN WE'RE MOVING?

Mark, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think that needs to come down to a final approval of the code and set-up (well, not FINAL final, but pretty much a general agreement of the code as it stands). A domain name needs to be settled on, purchased and assigned to Andrew's server. When that's complete, we abandon ship!

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

blimey, i missed the bit about actually having a server to do all this on! it... it's like we really are going to... to move. crumbs

Alan T, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Graham - which mySQL column type are you using to store the contents of the posts in?

michael, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

How swish!

DG, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Currently text - is this not a good idea?

(lez/wanker feature is gone now)

Graham, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Aw :-(

(wanker)

Alan T, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I WILL STOP NOW. sorry. :-)

Alan T, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Graham - mySQL is a pain is this regard - 'Text' uses 64 Kb each however much is stored in that field, which means for every 100,000 posts 6.25 Gb is needed. currently the archive has 200,000+ posts? was just wondering how much storage space is available.

i'm afraid i don't have an alternative suggestion, on mySQL varchar only goes up to 255 bytes. the only thing i've thought of so far that's relatively simple is to move the 'text' field out of the posts table into it's own table, (just two columns, auto increment id and text) and the text of longer posts to go in there with the id number stored in the posts table. it's not a great solution - since 255 bytes is hardly anything, but there are quite a few one word or one line posts

michael, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

there is a shorter 'text' ( i forget the name, either 'smalltext' or 'tinytext'), but annoyingly that's 255 bytes as well

michael, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

are you sure that's still true? i think the posgreSQL crowd used that as a stick to beat mySQL sometime back.

Alan T, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

not 100% sure - but that's from reading the documentation on mysql.com. i couldn't find anything about defining your own column types on that

another alternative is to convert threads no-one has posted to for a while into a single 'text' fields.

michael, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

myISAM tables (the default db table format in MySQL 3.23) support varchar up to 64K, but mySQL doesn't support it yet as far as I can tell.

michael, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

From the manual I have:

"VARCHAR and the BLOB and TEXT types are variable-length types, for which the storage requirements depend on the actual length of column values (represented by L in the preceding table), rather than on the type's maximum possible size."

The manual makes a lot references to which version things changed in, and it doesn't mention anything here, so they must have fixed this a very long time ago.

Graham, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

arse! why haven't they updated their bloody site then.

michael, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

They have.

Graham, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

BLOBS it is then?

Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't suppose we can have BLOBs available, unless our new host is incredibly well-off for capacity and madly generous. Some of us don't post pics at present because we have no website set up to host them, so the ability to hold them on ILX would be great.

Martin Skidmore, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Right I have been busy (ie very very bored) so a fairly major update:
  • All of the "message posted","logged in","incorrect password" pages are pretty now. Some of them need to be a bit more wordy, but they are at least proper pages.
  • Comedy timing warning! It will show you new messages posted while you were composing, and let you edit your message before it's posted (this might annoy people, in which case I can turn it off or make it a user setting or something). No more agreeing with Ronan.
  • User setting to only show last n messages of a thread (then click a link to show all of them).
  • User setting for message details to show
  • User setting for time zone works
  • Names and email address are kept unique - someone can't post as you without entering your password (and no you won't have to enter it every time with a non-cookie browser)
  • Password reset function if you forget it
  • Double post check
  • Loads of other little things
Still to do: Webmail, HTML syntax checking, Admin features, Stats cock (I don't think there is anything else).

Graham, Sunday, 28 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

graham i had one idea, but maybe your "only show n# posts" feature might solve it. i was thinking it would be nice to have a link at the top of each thread which would bounce you to the bottom. i get kind of tired of scrolling down the big threads. or maybe there's some shortcut for doing this that i don't know about.

Ron, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ctrl-End?

michael, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

someone can't post as you without entering your password (and no you won't have to enter it every time with a non-cookie browser)

Can i please request a log-out function for this? some sites don't have this and it makes it a pain for people like me that access ILE from home and also public/school/work/other peoples' computers quite a lot.

petra jane, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ron: The 'End' key does what you want.

Petra: You'll ba pleased to hear there's already a log out link on every page.

Graham, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Names and email address are kept unique - someone can't post as you without entering your password

To be clear, if you're logged in you won't be asked for your password. I supposse that's pretty obvious really.

Graham, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

oh duh then. Hip Hooray for Graham, codegeek supreme.

petra jane, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

sweet, thanks g!

Ron, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This is terrific work, Graham. I wish all our experts at work were as good at this as you are (including me: I have a first in computing and three years pro experience!).

Martin Skidmore, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

with this 'end' key it's like a whole new world!! maybe i should check out some of these other keys... OOH! SHIFT!!

Ron, Wednesday, 31 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I've done a far amount more this week, but most of it is admin stuff so you can't see it, except FULL TEXT SEARCHING!!!!, integrated with the database so you can do stuff like searching by date range or category. Plus webmail works now, and lots of other improvements like you get a link back to the thread when you post a message.

We need to choose a domain name.

Graham, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(if you want to check out the admin features, post your login name here and I'll upgrade your thingy)

Graham, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think it's possible to express too often or too highly how impressed and grateful I feel about all this, Graham.

Martin Skidmore, Monday, 5 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Right OK, technical question for professional people here. I've never done any serious SQL stuff before, so:

Is there an easy way to do a table join (I'm not sure if that's what it's even called) without losing the records in the first table that don't have a corresponding entry in the second? eg I want the left hand side of the result to be the contents of the first table, and the right hand side to be either the corresponding entry from the second table, or blank. Is this doable?

Graham, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Or reword this query to not lose categories that don't contain threads:

SELECT c.catid, c.name, count(*) as count FROM categories c, threads t WHERE c.catid=t.catid GROUP BY t.catid

Graham, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

SELECT c.catid, c.name, count(*) as count FROM categories c LEFT OUTER JOIN threads t ON c.catid=t.catid GROUP BY t.catid

RickyT, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But that probably won't work in MySQL cos it's syntax for outer joins is apparently bonkers. Looking up outer joins in an MySQl reference will probably give you what you need.

RickyT, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Thank Rick, that's pretty much what I wanted. But wiht that particular query the GROUP BY bit bollockses it up by grouping together all the empty categories (because t.catid=NULL for all of them). If you group on t.catid,c.catid it does work, but then you get a count of 1 for empty categories. This does work though:

SELECT c.catid, c.name,t.catid,if(isnull(t.catid),0,count(*)) as count FROM categories c LEFT JOIN threads t ON c.catid=t.catid group by t.catid,c.catid

Thankyou!

Graham, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ooops. Forgot about the count thing.

RickyT, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh and isn't the t.catid redundant in the GROUP BY clause?

RickyT, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

And the select (unless you're doing something complex upstream)

RickyT, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, that was just me figuring out what was happening.

Graham, Tuesday, 6 August 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...
Any ideas on how I might SSH through the university proxy server/firewall/whatever the hell else is stopping me? I've got Mindterm and that worked from EasyInterwebCafe but not here.

Well?

Graham (graham), Friday, 27 September 2002 12:17 (twenty-three years ago)

oh yeah, i wanted to say that i really like the unread answers feature

ron (ron), Friday, 27 September 2002 13:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, it's great. You've really done an excellent job, Graham. In fact, it wouldn't be unfair to say that you are ilx0r's man-ho.

Nicole (Nicole), Friday, 27 September 2002 13:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Nonono Nicole, he's ilx0r's PIMP.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 27 September 2002 13:42 (twenty-three years ago)

now the red ones are the ones i've looked at before right??

ron (ron), Saturday, 28 September 2002 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah

Graham (graham), Saturday, 28 September 2002 18:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Do you have to be in a special browser to get red new answers? I see no such change. ):

lyra (lyra), Saturday, 28 September 2002 18:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Settings > Show Unread messages

Graham (graham), Saturday, 28 September 2002 18:13 (twenty-three years ago)

ooooooh, it works now. hooray!

lyra (lyra), Saturday, 28 September 2002 18:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh and thanks for the email. I meant doing it from the network PCs where I can't really download software. No luck yet, although Talnet is installed as an accessory so if I can find a suitable proxy I could use that.

Graham (graham), Saturday, 28 September 2002 18:14 (twenty-three years ago)

I warned you that it was a rubbish useless email. ; )

lyra (lyra), Saturday, 28 September 2002 18:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Nonono Nicole, he's ilx0r's PIMP.

What, is he going to start demanding our money?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 28 September 2002 20:06 (twenty-three years ago)

all the settings, search, etc links seem to be gone from new answers page :'(

they are still on the other page

can they come back?

ron (ron), Sunday, 6 October 2002 15:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah sorry, I'll get on it when I get home (if my phone's working again)

Graham (graham), Sunday, 6 October 2002 19:02 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...
i was enjoying the 'generated at' thing, if you'd like to return it?? or was it not popular/ not a good thing?

ron (ron), Sunday, 10 November 2002 02:22 (twenty-three years ago)

The generated thing only gets shown if the Unread counts are on, to show that they are out of date. With the normal New Answers page, I figured it didn't matter so much, as well as th epage being generated more frequently then.

Graham (graham), Sunday, 10 November 2002 19:51 (twenty-three years ago)

it seems like it sometimes displays, sometimes doesn't

ron (ron), Sunday, 10 November 2002 21:32 (twenty-three years ago)

I think it only appears if it's out of date or more than a minute old or you've seen the same version at least once already or something. Why am I answering? I don't know.

Rebecca (reb), Monday, 11 November 2002 01:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Rebecca's latter theory is correct, it only shows when the page was retrieved from the database cache. If there's no date it means the page is FRESH! (unless it cameout of your browser's cache when you hit the Back button or summit)

(reb - A: Because you're trying to be helpful?)

Graham (graham), Monday, 11 November 2002 10:54 (twenty-three years ago)

you've improved the updating of the New Answers page recently, right Graham? I have a habit of using the "back button" on my browser a lot, and I notice N.A. now updates when I go 'backwards' to it, eg from a thread. Which is great.

Unfortunately, this means I get a lot of "this page has expired" messages of late also - e.g. on thread 'n', post message --> success screen, click on "view 'n'" link --> back to thread 'n', hit back button <-- page expired message. I guess I should only go forwards when on ILX from now on!>

zebedee, Monday, 11 November 2002 11:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Or go backwards, eg press the back button instead of clicking "Back to thread", or press the back button twice more when you get the Page Expired warning (which is for the Inserting Message page)

Graham (graham), Monday, 11 November 2002 11:44 (twenty-three years ago)

wasn't there some way to only display the last X number of posts on a thread? i can't find any settings for this. that what do you look like thread is off the chain

ron (ron), Monday, 11 November 2002 15:28 (twenty-three years ago)

just an observation, but if i go FT Front Page>ILX link>New answers my cookie is recognised, but if i go via NYLPM link i have to log in. Is this just me/my computer?

CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 11 November 2002 16:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry for the outage this morning.

(Steve: probably a ilxor.com/ilx.wh3rd.net problem, I think Tom probably links to both)

Graham (graham), Monday, 18 November 2002 12:25 (twenty-three years ago)

five years pass...

Thanks for this, Graham!

Dom Passantino, Sunday, 9 December 2007 18:01 (eighteen years ago)


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