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In re: Jam Master Jay's death:

Chuck D, the founder of the hip-hop group Public Enemy, blamed record companies and the advertising for perpetuating "a climate of violence" in the rap industry.

"When it comes to us, we're disposable commodities," he said.

Just curious: anybody think there's anything to this, or is it as nuts as it sounds to me? Record companies sign acts that rap about violence because they sell, and the companies are somehow to blame for the violence about which the acts in question are rapping?

Huh?

― J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:18 (twenty-three years ago)

D'you reckon if they only signed guys like MC Hammer maybe it'd help cool down inner city violence.

Probably not. Record companies probably are helping to glamourise and profiting from it.

― tigerclawskank, Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:37 (twenty-three years ago)

In a sense media has portrayed Hip Hop as being tied to violence. The public/masses learn from the media. Hence you could blame the media for killing Jam Master Jay.

― nathalie (nathalie), Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Which is of course a very simplistic way of putting it... (Media also included record companies.)

― nathalie (nathalie), Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:39 (twenty-three years ago)

"When it comes to us, we're disposable commodities," he said.

Well, that line is right in general for all artists vis-a-vis the major labels, to be sure.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:41 (twenty-three years ago)

but there's still no evidence that it has any relation to gang banging. there's certainly no evidence that the killer was into hip hop. what is chuck saying; that it's the media's fault for CAUSING some guy to shoot someone, or that it's the media's fault for placing jay into this kind of violent atmosphere? because both points are inconsistent with REALITY.

― s magnet, Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:47 (twenty-three years ago)

So you say the media has no influence on the public? Like I say it is a very simplistic way of putting it, but he does (or could)- have a point. Even the artist itself can (and is) influenced by the media.

― nathalie (nathalie), Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:49 (twenty-three years ago)

an important question to ask, honestly, is: What was the last thing Chuck D said that made any actual sense? his book Fight the Power was full of egregious misinformation--about himself! his own records! that he made! etc.

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:52 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm SO not saying that. what i mean is this: (correct me if i'm wrong) jay got shot in queensbridge at night in the dark PERHAPS by a young guy who was robbing the place or whatever. this happens everyday regardless of media influence.

― s magnet, Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:55 (twenty-three years ago)

My understanding was that the killer(s) were buzzed into the studio. Sounds like they were known if their intentions hardly were.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 31 October 2002 13:59 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry to get speculative on yall asses, but that seems a more realistic explanation than the old 'it was the media's fault' nutmeg, esp as we know how detached run dmc were MUSICALLY and STYLISTICLY (but of course, perhaps not in reality) from gangsta 'culture'.

ah, ned posted whilst i was... what does 'buzzed' mean?

― s magnet, Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:01 (twenty-three years ago)

I overstated; sorry. I do think Chuck D's capacity for hyperbole has overwhelemed his good sense, at least in public of late, though.

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:05 (twenty-three years ago)

magnet: door is locked, persons wishing entry announce their presence, they are either identified by voice or through a security camera image, person inside presses "buzzer" to let them in - hence 'buzzed in'

― zebedee, Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:07 (twenty-three years ago)

magnet: my question was asked independently of yours; I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:08 (twenty-three years ago)

oh no matos, sorry, i was replying to nathalie and you got in before ;).

zebedee, cheers for clearing that up in an utterly condescending manner!

― s magnet, Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Run-DMC in a quote I read many years ago: it's bad to be drug dealer, but it's good to have them for friends. Or something like that. Maybe they had more street cred. than their music would suggest.

Gang violence (and violence of various sorts, all over the place) existed before hip-hop and existed before big record companies got involved with it. I don't think the gangsta rap sub-genre developed as a result of the machinations record companies and advertisers. Sure, record companies and advertisers have promoted this stuff to make money; but what about the artists who started making this music and the audience who pays for it?

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:12 (twenty-three years ago)

gotcha ;-)

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:13 (twenty-three years ago)

was that so condescending? i was trying to be helpful. you did ask!

― zebedee, Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:21 (twenty-three years ago)

alright, maybe it was a bit

― zebedee, Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:24 (twenty-three years ago)

hey i was only kidding! i deserved it anyway

― s magnet, Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:26 (twenty-three years ago)

Now how about the theory that it's maybe a little broader than that and the almost complete lack of any real gun control in the USA could have had something to do with his death?

Just a thought.

― James Ball (James Ball), Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:35 (twenty-three years ago)

i agree wholeheartedly

― s magnet, Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Chuck D makes me embarrassed to be a leftist.

― g.cannon (gcannon), Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:49 (twenty-three years ago)

i dunno, the equation is pretty simple to me. danger and shock sells records. (or sells anything... look at mtv's Jackass.) it's the heart of rock and roll and youth rebellion. execs know this. they see the violence coming out of the hood in the musical form of gangsta rap and capitalize on that phenomenon.

they capitalize on suffering and proliferate images of that suffering to further capitalize on that suffering.

chuck d's hardly the first person to point that out.
m.

― msp, Thursday, 31 October 2002 17:47 (twenty-three years ago)

D'you reckon if they only signed guys like MC Hammer maybe it'd help cool down inner city violence.

i think if there were only mc hammer's in the rap world, lots more hip hop artists would be murdered

― JasonD, Thursday, 31 October 2002 18:14 (twenty-three years ago)

yesyesyes, BUT the violence existed before record companies capitalized on it.

― s magnet, Thursday, 31 October 2002 18:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Now how about the theory that it's maybe a little broader than that and the almost complete lack of any real gun control in the USA could have had something to do with his death?
You can't blame gun control (or lack thereof) as in Canada there are the same amount of guns but less accidents/deaths as a result of gun usage.

Of course the media didn't kill him, but the media does influence people. As such I can follow him up to a point.

― nathalie (nathalie), Thursday, 31 October 2002 18:56 (twenty-three years ago)

in a different context perhaps he's right, b-b-b-b-but i thought this discussion was based on the fact that chuck's comments were naive and inappropriate?

― s magnet, Thursday, 31 October 2002 19:17 (twenty-three years ago)

You can't blame gun control (or lack thereof) as in Canada there are the same amount of guns but less accidents/deaths as a result of gun usage.

Is your real name Michael Moore?

Seriously though, better gun control would probably help get America back to some Canada-like proportions of gun deaths (plus that statement says nothing about whether Canada has any gun control restrictions, despite the number of guns the populace there may possess). It's too easy for the wrong people to get guns (whether by legal or illegal means) in America.

― hstencil, Thursday, 31 October 2002 21:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Sniper News

― Alan Conceicao, Thursday, 31 October 2002 21:49 (twenty-three years ago)

D'you reckon if they only signed guys like MC Hammer maybe it'd help cool down inner city violence.
If the world of music was like this, even *I* would pick up an Uzi.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 1 November 2002 02:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I think everybody's right. Of course the media influence "people." But that's somewhat of an abstraction, or at least a generalization at the sociological level. On the individual level, if they find the bastard who killed JMJ, and he claims "the media made me do it," nobody with any sense will give it serious consideration.

― wl (wl), Friday, 1 November 2002 02:25 (twenty-three years ago)

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