Hip Hop Style Biters

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Premier bit RZA
Busta bit Redman

others?

― oops (Oops), Monday, 10 March 2003 23:20 (twenty-three years ago)

(I fear the direction this thread will take)

― oops (Oops), Monday, 10 March 2003 23:20 (twenty-three years ago)

The Premier bit RZA? When did this happen?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 10 March 2003 23:33 (twenty-three years ago)

check out the difference between his production style on 'Daily Operation' (loops) and 'Hard to Earn'(chops)
guess what groundbreaking album came out in between

― oops (Oops), Monday, 10 March 2003 23:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Ahh hmm, I never heard "Hard to Earn". I can see some elements of Premier's beats in the RZA's style tho, to be fair.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 10 March 2003 23:51 (twenty-three years ago)

no doubt

― oops (Oops), Monday, 10 March 2003 23:52 (twenty-three years ago)

(that was not a reference to Gwen Stafani's band)

― oops (Oops), Monday, 10 March 2003 23:53 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, and you really should hear Hard to Earn if you like Gang Starr at all

― oops (Oops), Monday, 10 March 2003 23:54 (twenty-three years ago)

I wouldn't say that premier bit rza. during the time when hard to earn and enter the 36 chambers came out, rza was constantly at premier's crib (according the interviews that *i've read*). premier was also trying to prove that he could do more than just loop jazz samples. perhaps their styles evolved together? and it also isn't hard to hear some prince paul influence in both.

― S>C>, Tuesday, 11 March 2003 00:04 (twenty-three years ago)

fair enough...but I'm not seeing the Prince Paul influence. Can you elaborate?

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 00:06 (twenty-three years ago)

does this mean that everyone agrees that Busta bit Redman?

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 00:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Prince Paul + RZA = Gravediggaz. Obviously a lot of "cross-pollinatin" going on here I think.

There must be some better examples that are plain old bandwagon-jumping though.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 11 March 2003 00:07 (twenty-three years ago)

see to me, the PP tracks on Gravediggaz are him adapting his style to RZA's innovations

I did start this w/some contraversial examples and hoped to get the more obvious ones (which I'm drawing a blank on) from other people.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 00:11 (twenty-three years ago)

didn't prince paul really perfect the sketch, a big part of wu's aesthetic. and, it's been a long time since i've thought about this, but one song on enter the 36 chambers, maybe "wu tang clan ain't nothin to f with" bit the sample for something off de la soul is dead.

i know this is hella vague, but it isn't something i've thought about for years.

― S>C>, Tuesday, 11 March 2003 00:11 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, prince paul perfected the sketch, but I don't think it's a crucial part of Wu--perhaps you could say they rode the bandwagon in this respect, as almost every album coming out around then had some skits.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 00:14 (twenty-three years ago)

it's tough for me to come up with specific examples of DJs/hip-hop producers biting each other - for all the bands that have the most distinct styles (Prince Paul, Tribe, RZA, Bomb Squad, Dre, Timbaland, etc.) I usually don't bother with the second-string imitators. Like I'm sure a lot of "backpacker" hip-hop owes a huge huge debt to Ali Shaheed Muhammed's production, but I'd be hard-pressed to name specific acts... this is only complicated by the fact that most producers are more than happy to produce tracks by up-and-comers who idolize them.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 11 March 2003 00:15 (twenty-three years ago)

can it be said that the alchemist studied a lot of primier beats?

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 00:50 (twenty-three years ago)

and also, when did sample clearance become a big issue in hip hop? around the same time primo and RZA started chopping up all their beats? it might not be a stylistic bite, but a stylistic necessity?

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 00:53 (twenty-three years ago)

jason: good point. i thought the same thing earlier.

and i thought that alchemist was primier's prodigee.

― S>C>, Tuesday, 11 March 2003 00:54 (twenty-three years ago)

one more interesting tidbit on the prince paul/ rza connection: according to prince paul's memoirs in wax poetics #2, prince paul at the time that rza first started to hit was technically obsessive, he said that rza showed him that he need not be so anal in producing clean tracks.

― S>C>, Tuesday, 11 March 2003 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

and also, when did sample clearance become a big issue in hip hop?

About '91, when Biz got sued by Gilbert O'Sullivan. (Unless the De La/Turtles suit was earlier, and I think it was.)

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 01:05 (twenty-three years ago)

(Nate I asked this on that re-mastering thread but I guess you might not haev seen it; what's the deal w/ Tribe's Low End Theory?)

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 01:18 (twenty-three years ago)

I have no idea what the curse words situation is or why the album was censored. It just was.

Good thing it was brought up, actually, since "Scenario" was Busta's big breakthrough and Redman didn't blow up until a year later. Did Busta just wind up changing his style later on or something? Because I'm not quite hearing it.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 02:58 (twenty-three years ago)

was Scenario really Busta's big breakthrough? both "Low End Theory" and L.O.N.S. "Future w/o a Past" came out in '91 (dunno the months). that l.o.n.s. album had "Case of the P.T.A" on it.

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 03:53 (twenty-three years ago)

and here's an obvious style biter: EazyE was rumored to have brought the first Freestyle Fellowship album out to the midwest and told Bone Thugz and Harmony to learn their style.

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 03:54 (twenty-three years ago)

I can't name any names but lots of people ripped of Das EFX's riggity-rhyme style back in the day. They moved on to something more straightforward and quickly disappeared (not to say they wouldn't've anyway).

People don't seem to agree on the RZA bites, but he complained vociferously of folks biting his 36 Chambers, etc., sound and gave that as a reason for changing his signature.

There's a track on Tougher Than Leather (can't remember the name) wherin Run DMC do a straight-up, um, homage, to Slick Rick, down to the Brit-y accent.

― wl (wl), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 04:38 (twenty-three years ago)

I can't name any names but lots of people ripped of Das EFX's riggity-rhyme style back in the day.

here's two: mack daddy and daddy mack

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 05:43 (twenty-three years ago)

dmx bitten by ja rule
jaz o chomped by jay z
tupac chewed on by eminem
jay dee's production style has been mauled by many
fabolousy masticated upon shanks o' jay z
ja rule went back for seconds on tupac's ass
swizz beats jacked patch audition beats out of casio & roland keyboards
lil kim sampled barbie for her body parts
loon mumbles like mase
and on and on and on and on...

biting is an accepted part of "the business" of hip hop 2003, which is how we wound up with clones in clone videos engaging in cloned scenarios of cloned lifestyles. which is really not that bad a thing in small "high school-like" doses...but when the alpha & omega of hip hop presented to the average consumer is so narrow, it becomes a caricature of itself- kind of like when everybody wore an africa medallion and had a hi-top fade.

ps. when common first came out, he was all over that das efx-ish rhyme scheme...

― naturalaw-dp, Tuesday, 11 March 2003 06:17 (twenty-three years ago)

this one's pretty obscure, but on the Downtown Science album there's a track that is a STRAIGHT UP RIPOFF of Eric B. & Rakim. (most of the album isn't.) there's gotta be others.

oh yeah, and "Try and Do Me" on the first Brand Nubian album is a hilarious new-jack track that could be called a Guy ripoff.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 08:03 (twenty-three years ago)

(Unless the De La/Turtles suit was earlier, and I think it was.)

It was, about '90. I remember there being a segment on the whole thing on some Sat. afternoon kids show. It was kinda cool...they showed them going through the whole sampling process.

As far as Busta & Redman, Future w/o a Past came out in '91, but Redman was on EPMD's 'Business as Usual' album which was out in '90.
Busta's flow on FWOP is quite different than his 'woo-hah' style of a few years later.
I'm actually not convinced that he bit Redman...more likely, the two of them were taking cues from Jamaican dancehallers.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 16:04 (twenty-three years ago)

when common first came out, he was all over that das efx-ish rhyme scheme...

Both of their debut albums came out in '92

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 16:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Kool Keith seems to believe that the Wu jacked the alternate-monikers idea from him; not exactly a baseless claim, considering he was doing the different monikers/characters stuff since the mid-80s, but I doubt they specifically ripped it from him, at least intentionally.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 16:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Someone point me at a Redman track where he flows like "Put Your Hands Where My Eyes Can See", "Dangerous" or "Gimme Some More" please because that might be the BEST THING EVER.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 16:51 (twenty-three years ago)

There is one Dan, but I can't think of it w/o my cd's handy.
Methinks it was on the Doc's Da Name album.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 17:25 (twenty-three years ago)

I bite Busta Rhymes' and Del the Funky Homosapien's styles like it ain't no thing, but because of the honkiness of my voice, hardly anybody catches it. Ha!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 17:30 (twenty-three years ago)

when common first came out, he was all over that das efx-ish rhyme scheme...

also big around this time was chicago's Twista. i've never actually heard the man, but from what i've heard he sounds like, i could imagine common being really influnced by his flow, not das efx's

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 17:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Heh. I remember this kid coming over to my house and playing the Twista album (I think he was technically Tongue Twista) back in the day. I was like "wow, he can talk fast...so what?" It wasn't very enjoyable to listen too.
I always thought he was the main person being dissed by the Beatnuts, but that's probaly cuz he was the prime example of that style in my eyes: "But all that tiggedy-tiggedy tongue twistin shit don't impress me It's just a phase, and you know damn well. That you'll fall off in a minute, cause that shit don't sell"

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 17:43 (twenty-three years ago)

man, everyone was toying with weird flows back then. the first time i heard Organized Konfusion's first album (many years after it came out), i was totally thrown aback. Pharoah Monche sounds like he's some west coast dude or part of Freestyle Fellowship, but he's from new york. was kinda confusing at first.

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 18:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Man, Twista sucked. I don't think anyone good could
ever be influenced by him.
I think Outkast and Busta represent the outer limit
of rapping speed, anything faster sounds mechanical
and cheesy (well, Busta does, sometimes) but even
they don't rap fast 100% nonstop.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 18:47 (twenty-three years ago)

Gift of Gab can get extremely fast and yet remain totally organic and articulate and natural with his delivery. "Alphabet Aerobics" = proof.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 19:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, Gift is great, but that's the only track on _Blazing
Arrow_ that made me go "eh." I mean, it's been done, hasn't it?

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 19:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Since we're on the topic of the Blackalicious album, did anyone
else catch the reference to "Kobaia chronicles" in one of the link
tracks? I almost DIE when I hear that, I love it SO MUCH!!

For the uninitiated, Kobaia was an imaginary world created by
the french prog band Magma. They helpfully reviewed the
history of Kobaia on several classic LP's, which they
sung in the native language of Kobaia, Kobaian.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 19:15 (twenty-three years ago)

wow. that's one of the most amazing things i've heard all day.

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 11 March 2003 19:18 (twenty-three years ago)

that's the only track on _Blazing
Arrow_ that made me go "eh."

"Alpha Acro" isn't on Blazing Arrow. You're probably thinking of the science song, which is admittedly a remake of it.

― wl (wl), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 07:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh yeeeeeeeaaaah...now I get it.
I retract what I said, "Alpha" kicks much.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 07:54 (twenty-three years ago)

I want an entire album of Gift of Gab/Cut Chemist tracks like "Alphabet Aerobics" and "Chemical Calisthenics". NOW. :D

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 12 March 2003 14:03 (twenty-three years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.