The new H.N.I.C.: The death of civil rights and the reign of Hip Hop.

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Anyone read this book?

― girl scout heroin (iamamonkey), Monday, 17 March 2003 04:41 (twenty-three years ago)

I was trying to figure out how the second part of that title fit in with Hockey Night In Canada when I saw this post. Don't tell me I'm alone in this, fellow Canadians.

― Vic Funk, Monday, 17 March 2003 12:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Thats funny but HNIC stands for "house nigger in charge" I believe. The books about how Nas and Mystikal are the real MLKs.

― girl scout heroin (iamamonkey), Monday, 17 March 2003 13:31 (twenty-three years ago)

MLKs == Massive Leprechaun Kickers?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 17 March 2003 14:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Isnt that a GBV song?

― girl scout heroin (iamamonkey), Monday, 17 March 2003 16:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Nope. The Fall.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 17 March 2003 18:22 (twenty-three years ago)

H = "head"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 March 2003 18:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Pre-1960s: H == House
Post-1960's: H == Head
Post-Now: H == Heyhowdy...

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:00 (twenty-three years ago)

so what is an mlk?

― robin (robin), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:02 (twenty-three years ago)

(surveys the thread and sheds a single silent tear)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:06 (twenty-three years ago)

We feel your pain, Sterling.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Mlk is the scary Blvd you wont drive on at night in any major american city

― girl scout heroin (iamamonkey), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Tom: delete the world pls.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:35 (twenty-three years ago)

am i missing something?

― robin (robin), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:37 (twenty-three years ago)

In New Orleans anyway Martin luther King Seems to have no apparent significance politically when compared to say Tupac and this crosses all age groups. For instance the wisdom?! of say the cash money millionaires is more relevant to modern black people than all the civil rights era intellectuals combined and this IS their source of new leaders and direction. Is hiphop already beyond pop music and entering political/religious status.
I know certain african rebels will use tupac as a revolutionary icon like he was Che Guevara or some shit and its a complete aside from the music. Does any of this seem odd to you?

― girl scout heroin (iamamonkey), Monday, 17 March 2003 22:47 (twenty-three years ago)

now i see
so whats sterling's problem?

― robin (robin), Monday, 17 March 2003 23:03 (twenty-three years ago)

the new levels of not-getting-it which custos brings this board to every day.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 17 March 2003 23:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Is Tupac The Bob Marley Of every American Housing Project? elevated to religious observance an icon revered etc? Isnt this shit fascinating? Every black home in the south used to have a picture of MLK displayed and now Its Tupac right along side like a hero. thats a real cultural shift in music

― girl scout heroin (iamamonkey), Monday, 17 March 2003 23:20 (twenty-three years ago)

I’ve not read the book—it’s one of those things I’ll probably “mean to read” and then never bother—and here’s part of why: the whole thing seems like a bit of a tautology, doesn’t it? Because when people talk about “hip-hop” as a social force they’re obviously not just talking about music, whether it’s KRS saying “hip-hop is a broad culture containing all of these elements” or the white suburban housewife for whom Moesha or any black guy with a do-rag have something to do with “hip-hop.” And this broader thing that gets constituted as hip-hop is actually a fairly large portion of black youth culture—not all of it by a long shot, but an inescapable portion of it.

Which obviously shreds the thesis of this book as a daring thing to say: if hip-hop means “one of the most powerful strains of black youth culture” then it’s not exactly shocking to say that it’s become a predominant framework in the minds of young black people. (“Black youth culture is now the culture of black youth” shocker!)

I’m assuming based on NYU’s usually pretty good acquisitions that the value of this book lies not in holding up that thesis as some sort of explosive new thought, but in some sort of really effective charting of how that happened—of how hip-hop music rose to become the center of the broader culture, a broader culture it both draws from and contributes to.

(NB: I drive up Chicago's MLK every night.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 17 March 2003 23:34 (twenty-three years ago)

en route to Hyde Park I'm guessing

(just giving you shit, N) :)

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 March 2003 23:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Anyway, point to Girl Scout Heroin: the thing you have to remember about iconography -- the picture of MLK versus the picture of Tupac -- is that it has less to do with what people did than what they represent. (That's why it's iconography and not just memorialization.) There are bits of Africa where Tupac's just as much of an icon despite the kids wearing the second-hand t-shirts never even having heard his music (just as they'd wear Michael Jordan t-shirts without ever having seen him play). It's representational: Tupac represents something about the current black experience that Martin Luther King does not, having existed in a time where the black experience was massively different from today.

(Another personal note: best secondhand t-shirt seen in Africa remains Somali kid with vintage Rancid shirt.)

(Dear John: totally en route to Hyde Park, yeah. The people who live in bad neighborhoods don't want to be there any more than I do!)

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 17 March 2003 23:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Best t-shirt I've seen: from China, a combo of Shanghai millennial celebration logo and the Chicago Bulls.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 17 March 2003 23:41 (twenty-three years ago)

That makes perfect sense nabisco

― girl scout heroin (iamamonkey), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 00:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I actually have productive things to say on this subject but they're not very music related: however its worthwhile to note that the more overtly polticial hip-hop relies on, uses, refigures, etc. plenty of civil rights and black power iconography.

Generation hip-hop was generation "hey we're all wearing Malcom X hats and saw the Spike Lee movie" too a few years ago don't forget.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 07:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Mlk is the scary Blvd you wont drive on at night in any major american city

Don't be silly--I take the bus down New Orleans' MLK every night. Also I have underdeveloped ideas about the Cash Money Millionaires' conspicuous consumption and the exhortation of wealth by people that, according to mainstream America and the way it operates, aren't supposed to have it. The old guard recoils in horror at the tactless nouveau riche--this is mainly effective in New Orleans, where most of the money is very old and society-based. It's the old cliche "fuck you" punk attitude without the annoying quibbles about materialism.

I am certainly not qualified to judge whether or not this is a good or bad thing for the youth of New Orleans but perhaps just instilling that anti-whatever spirit is a good step towards positive change.

― adam (adam), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 15:29 (twenty-three years ago)

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