the stone roses V pills 'n'thrills'n'bellyaches V screamadelica

One obvious companion album is World Of Twist's Quality Street.

As for the question? Pills'n'Thrills is a masterpiece by one of the UK's best-ever bands. Screamadelica I feel fondly for but never play. The Stone Roses I can't imagine ever wanting to hear again.

the Stone Roses first album - great record.

Thrills 'n' Pills - I don't think I've ever heard this.

its almost a joke that the other two albums in the thread title could even be considered alongside this.

(if you're looking for other albums to go alongside then Flowered Ups album could be considered, the only band i can think of to try and pick up the happy mondays baton, to rise to the challenge, so, they didnt manage it, but they made a really good attempt at it anyway)

"bummed" was the mondays' great album, because hannett was on hand to make them Other; "p&t" was a rush job and the oakenfold/osborne prod is sorely dated. the songs are mostly under par.

"screamadelica" - its point was visible for about two weeks in september '91 but i can't stand to listen to it now - too much RESPECT for HISTORY instead of DEMOLISHING its memes and constructing primary-coloured post-mondrian crazy paving in their place.

screamadelica is more worthy of the fuss, though. the more low-key ambient ones are beautiful, especially. i'd listen to it all the way through, although i haven't played it in a while.

interesting to note how all three of these bands had Bad Singers.

I don't consider Ian Brown a bad singer. The two others are though.

i've not got tired of 'The Stone Roses' because I never liked it until about 5 years ago, and I still don't own it. same deal with 'Screamadelica' really. 'Pills n Thrills' I did have a copy of own tape but I've never bought that on CD tho I would like to listen to it now more than the other two so that wins by default.

Recently relistened to that for an AMG review. And it's still damn brilliant! :-)

it's a proven fact that xtermiator is the worst.

pills 'n' thrills has never really done that much for me as an album - though all mondays singles were great and the stome roses i loved so much at the time that i can't really see straight on it now - it's clearly still very good but equally clearly not as good as i once thought.

I have to agree with JBR here... None of those albums resonated with me much back in the day and now - they still don't.

How about "Some Friendly" to put with these? Danceable.

Despite immense overkill, I'd go with the Stone Roses. The featherlight production bugs me on occasion - "Bye Bye Badman", "Sugar Spun Sister" - but it's got the tunes. Pills n' Thrills has always struck as a fairly flimsy album. It's perfectly listenable and I like close to everything on it, but there's no real staying power. Screamadelica has some great stuff - "Slip Inside this house", "Loaded" etc. - but it's kind of bloated and glutinous. It also has a particular datedness about it. Not just sonically, because, for example, there's plenty of music from the 80s with abominably glutinous production that I love, but there's something about Screamadelica - less tangible - that makes it seem as if it very much belongs to the past. I know that must sound very woolly and solipsistic, but there you go. ;-)

The Stone Roses debut is among the best debuts in history in my opinion. Pills is not that good if you ask me-- pretty forgettable. Screamadelica has great moments but I don't think it's that good as a whole. And the singles are jaw-droppingly embarrassing.

All the singles? Hmmm.

I meant "Movin' on up" and "Come together." Are there other ones?

I obviously favour "Screamadelica" here, and this has to do with melodicism. "Scremadelica", in spite of its dance style, contains several great psychedelic melodies. And I am no speaking of the most Stones-influenced songs here such as "Moving On Up".

The Happy Mondays' first three albums were cheap sneering grubby affairs with fine swaggering lyrical messes smeared over them. What's not to love? Lke a bunch of Dickensian street arabs pissing over dirty opium funk. The Stone Roses are milk and water in comparison, Primal Scream bourgeois.

The Stone Roses is the most overrated album in history. Ziggy Stardust is a close second.

I never got rid of Pills 'N' Thrills and it is not bad but has stood the test of time markedly less well than Bummed, which I revisit regularly.

Screamadelica works best as an integrated album and still sounds exciting today, if clearly a product of its time.

I meant "Movin' on up" and "Come together." Are there other ones?

Don't Fight It Feel It
Higher Than the Sun
Loaded

All amazing records, although no-one really needs to hear Loaded again, do they?

And the version of Come Together on the album, with the Jesse Jackson speech, is completely different from the single.

I don't think the Stone Roses has aged very well. It seems more classicist now than it did at the time. The arrogance and poise and politics and otherness (people are wearing flares in Manchester! my god!) made it seem better and more important than it was, maybe.

Pills and Thrills is a superb record, better than Bummed and the Madchester EP. It's Balearic, innit! If it sounds dated that's because it was of its time (whereas the Stone Roses were aiming for timelessness). And what a time! Nice one, top one, sorted! I love that whole second side so much, even stuff that I thought was throwaway at the time, like Bob's Yer Uncle (which is now my favourite). Fans of Studio should definitely go back to this.

Anyway, this should be a Holy Manchester Triumverate taking sides with the Inspiral Carpets instead of Primal Scream.

Well no, the Weatherall and Farley mixes of "Come Together" are on opposite sides of the same single.

Balaeric was a non-starter, wasn't it?

Inspiral Carpets? I liked the one they did with Mark E Smith but otherwise it was Teardrop Explodes without the point.

Ah, I have this one http://www.discogs.com/release/737561

Inspiral Carpets would lose, don't worry! I just thought it would have made a better TS.

I agree that "Bummed" is better than "Pills...", although I think both are good records.

Ah, that explains it! (xp)

I always preferred the Weatherall mix of "Higher Than The Sun" (i.e. the one with the lovely "Goldfinger"-ish keyboard throughout - that was Weatherall, wasn't it? Anyway it's on the 12-inch) to the Orb one that got picked for the album.

Given how derided Primal Scream are these days, I'm always disappointed that you can't pick up all those 12"s for next to nothing. I'm not sure I've ever heard the version of Higher than the Sun you're talking about, and I'd love to get all the Don't Fight It Feel It versions.

I suppose it's the cult of Weatherall.

Well, Screamadelica is a great Sabres of Paradise album... ;-)

The live version of Ramblin' Rose on that must surely be unspeakable! (xxxxp)

It's really not too bad.

All the Primal 12-inches you can pick up for a couple of quid at the most at any given MVE.

Screamadelica for me. I'm imagining it'd still sound great, but I've not played it for years. The eight-minute version of 'Come Together''s single edit is a favourite too.

Agree with others that Bummed is the better Mondays album, although Pills 'n' Thrills was a great soundtrack to my first term at university.

Stone Roses? Loved it at the time. Bought it the same day as Like A Prayer and Club Classics Vol. One, kissing school goodbye in style. The Roses' ostensibly ordinary guitar pop was elevated by their attitude and sense of place above the prevailing indie dross. Not to mention some cracking songs.

The odd thing is to me at the time it sounded exactly like the prevailing indie dross. I remember buying it on the day of release just out of curiosity and no one had it in stock except Virgin in Tottenham Court Road. I also bought the second Pop Will Eat Itself album on the same day and that was much better.

My e

No revisionism here with Bummed. I'll have you know I was wearing unfeasible trousers in 1988.

I think I was going through a tweed jacket phase in '88.

"Pills And Thrills" is Mondays' best, but still lacking good recognizable singalong melodies.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 10:20 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

You mean you've never wandered around the flat singingalonga Do It Better off a Bummed while waving your arms about in a decisive but quixotic manner? For shame man, get some schooling.

What I find interesting (and pretty unfathomable) is how the Mondays wound up sounding like they did. It's clear what the Stone Roses were aiming for, and Primal Scream's evolution is all down on tape, but if anything the Mondays started out weird and evolved into something more conventional. The theory that they tried to be a funk band and just got it all wrong I understand, but even if that's right (and their early stuff sounds unlike any other 80s british efforts I'm aware of), it seems like a pretty unlikely path for that particular bunch of guys to have taken at that time

TSR - loved it then, love it still

it must be obvious i'm not a rock critic

Neither am I, but perhaps that's not so obvious.

"Do it Better" is off "Bummed"...

Of course, you could go round singing "Good Good Good Good dbbldbblgood" while Loose Fit is playing, but hey...

I don;t even read previous posts properly, but that may be more obvious than most things...

What I find interesting (and pretty unfathomable) is how the Mondays wound up sounding like they did. It's clear what the Stone Roses were aiming for, and Primal Scream's evolution is all down on tape, but if anything the Mondays started out weird and evolved into something more conventional. The theory that they tried to be a funk band and just got it all wrong I understand, but even if that's right (and their early stuff sounds unlike any other 80s british efforts I'm aware of), it seems like a pretty unlikely path for that particular bunch of guys to have taken at that time

Ecstacy? Different producers? Tony Wilson?

... and not having a set idea of what they actually wanted to do?

... being a glorious gang of drug-addled loons who weren't "musicians" as such, but just happened to briefly gel into a glorious gestalt?

there is no obvious explanation for the mondays and their brilliance. that's one of the many reasons i love them. indeed: the only thing that made any sense was the fact that "yes! please" is a bit (OK, a big bit) shit.

(unsurprisingly, i'd put P&T&B in a different stratosphere to the other two albums in this thread. that doesn't need said.)

It does need saying because I can't comprehend it.

Short answer: Martin Hannett.

"Yes Please" is in no way as shit as everyone says it is.

oh, come on: there was evidence of something wonderful/different/bizarre about the mondays from the very second they appeared -- right from the early singles. hannett produced an incredible album with them, but -- unlike with joy division -- i don't think you can credit him with making them what they were. (i'm not arguing that's true of JD either; simply that, in their case, it's a more convincing proposal.)

i guess the mondays fascinate and appeal to me so much because, on paper, they sounded like they'd be confused, directionless and awful -- and yet, until the grubby end, they barely put a foot wrong. there's a weird alchemy at work there somewhere.

that was an xpost to marcello.

but "yes please" is pretty rotten.

I was addressing PNTNB in particular.

but that was produced by two dudes who would have had a very different approach to hannett (i'd wager) and i can't imagine working with hannett on bummed instilled the band with a particular work ethic or approach?

quite the opposite, i'd have thought :)

It's not as good as the one they made with Hannett or indeed the one they made with John Cale. It's not as bad as the one they made with the Tom Tom Club but even in 1990 it didn't merit the kneejerk album of the year awards it got.

The Stone Roses is the most overrated album in history. Ziggy Stardust is a close second.

The second half of this, I agree with. But I think the Stone Roses album is fucking amazing, and I never tire of listening to it. In fact, contrary to what someone has said here, I believe it has aged very well. It has a timeless quality, like early REM. I wouldn't think to date it to 1989 if I heard it for the first time today-- but then, I didn't live in England at that time so I don't have the cultural baggage that some of you do.

One of the first 7" singles I ever owned was "Wrote For Luck" by the Mondays, given to me by my father after he visited Manchester in 1989 (I think). My brother got a copy of "Waterfall" by the Roses. At the time, I was jealous, but now I think I got the better deal!

"oh, Wrote for luck by the mondays
given to me by my fathers hand
all day long I shall sit and play
that you used to speak the truth but now you're clever..."

:-)

Who could ever forget the classic Vince Hill remix

hannett produced an incredible album with them, but -- unlike with joy division -- i don't think you can credit him with making them what they were.

Think that accolade would have to go to Paul Oakenfold and Steve Osbourne who produced, mixed and arranged "Pills.."

Except they notoriously failed to reproduce the magic when they did the same with whatever Deacon Blue album they produced so the Mondays would have happened anyway.

Yeah, but I doubt they would have sounded any more coherent.

My favourite album is the first one!

"Desmond did a draw in the marketplace..."

...which for reasons inexplicable disappeared from subsequent pressings...

Think that accolade would have to go to Paul Oakenfold and Steve Osbourne who produced, mixed and arranged "Pills.."

if the band had done sod all of merit/note before that album, i'd agree. but they'd already made a heap of wonderful records, so i don't. O&O were certainly vital in making "pills" what it is, but they didn't make the mondays what they were.

i think that, like their labelmates section 25 before them, they were a band onto which producers could project a sort-of vision. of course i'm not going to argue that the mondays were a bunch of musical geniuses; far from it. somehow, though, they were always more than the sum of their parts [1], whoever they worked with and whatever they did.

[1] until that last album, perhaps.

i love both of the singles off Yes Please

I heard a rumour that when asked how he got his disctinctive guitar style, Mark Day said that he learned by playing along to ACR records but was so shit that it sounded like something completely different. Is that true?

Despite what I said about "Pills" I still maintain to this day that Mark Day was a fantastic, distinctive and underated guitarist and it's a real shame that he ended up on his uppers as a postman. I think that Ellend Road album is testament to how good he was.

As I said on some other HMon's thread, the reunion is nice for them, but it cut no ice for me without Mark Day's guitar.

Mark Day = brilliant. Also love the bass playing on the first album.

mark day and the drummer ... what the fuck was his name? gary whelan? ... were both awesome, i always thought. i loved mark day's playing; i don't think he'd necessarily have been a great guitarist in any band other than the mondays, but that doesn't matter. for me, he defines their sound throughout.

i've never heard the ACR story but i'm sure the ghost of tony wilson wants us all to now propagate it as fact :)

And what should come up on last.fm but WFL, in remixed form! Not sure if it's the Vince Hill version though...

Neil S has a cool dad. When mine went to Manchester I got a ticket stub from the 'Theatre of Dreams' tour of Old Trafford

Oh, he's not that cool, believe me!

depends if you think running around and grooving like a baggy is shabby or not, i guess.

i thought it was 'baddie'

x-post Are you implying that my mother is dirty?

i love all three of these albums. interesting to me how little influence or effect any of them had here in the u.s. "step on" got mtv play for about a week, but basically emf and jesus jones were the only things out of that whole era to leave any kind of footprint, and that only of the one-hit variety. hell the soup dragons' rolling stones cover was more visible in america than anything off these records.

(i have several friends who saw 24 hour party people and wondered if happy mondays had been a real band.)

This funny Mondays video features them in the States:

Something tells me they might not have had the discipline to crack America.

... excuse the pun

unintentional!

i saw them on that tour, in some shithole in newark. they went on late, with a lousy muddy mix, and played a fairly shambolic one-hour set to an audience of, i don't know, maybe 200 people. i was already a fan, but i was seriously underwhelmed.

maybe Tony Wilson's trolling ("wake up" etc.) of Americans killed their chances of any kind of success there as much as discipline issue

Are you implying that my mother is dirty?

no ... but i did hear bob's yer uncle.

And that grandbag has died!