TS: TATU vs. Le Tigre

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Who's side are you on, anyway?

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Can I be in the middle?

― Alexis (Alexis), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:34 (twenty-three years ago)

"300 km/h..." vs. "LeTigre": LeTigre

"300 km/h..." vs. "Feminist Sweepstakes": Tatu

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:34 (twenty-three years ago)

"sorry i can't hear you with my head in the toilet".

― di smith (lucylurex), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:36 (twenty-three years ago)

A: THE BAND WITH THE ROLLERSKATE JAMS.

― di smith (lucylurex), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:40 (twenty-three years ago)

So, De La Soul.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:41 (twenty-three years ago)

is it saturday?

― di smith (lucylurex), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:42 (twenty-three years ago)

T.A.T.U. seem more likely to put on a more eye-popping show, despite Le Tigre's superior tunes.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:43 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, i've never seen two chicks pashing before.

― di smith (lucylurex), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:45 (twenty-three years ago)

T.A.T.U. seem more likely to put on a more eye-popping show, despite Le Tigre's superior tunes.

Ha, that one actually does read like it's straight from an alternate-world version of the New Yorker show listings!

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Except for bad editing with the "more" repetition, but that's Conde Nast's problem.

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:46 (twenty-three years ago)

but but but, is faux lesbianism for shock more or less interesting than real lesbians blasting out sexually politicized roller-skate jams for the ladies and the fags?

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:50 (twenty-three years ago)

way more interesting.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Shouldn't you be in a tree making biscuits or something?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh wait, that's Keebler.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:56 (twenty-three years ago)

what the...?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:57 (twenty-three years ago)

You know, I used to think the Keebler elves were really annoying...

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:58 (twenty-three years ago)

...then they started a band, Sigur Ros.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 27 March 2003 00:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh NO! TATU in JD SAMSON FLATTERY SHOCKA! OH NO!

http://www.kuci.org/~brianm/ile/tatushadow.jpg

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 27 March 2003 01:14 (twenty-three years ago)

haha brian i love you so much

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 27 March 2003 01:52 (twenty-three years ago)

love me more when you see the new taTu video directed by Chris Cunningham.

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 27 March 2003 01:53 (twenty-three years ago)

"IIIIIIIII WANT YOUR SOLLLLEEEES (in my mouth)"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 27 March 2003 01:54 (twenty-three years ago)

...then they started a band, Sigur Ros.

that was pretty funny. and jonsi does sing like someone stuck the Keebler elves' tree up his ass.

oh yeah -- TATU. in every possible way.

― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 27 March 2003 01:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, TaTu, definitely. TaTu sound totally irritating at first and then you can't live without them. It's the opposite with Le Tigre. And I can't wait to see what Tatu do next. I couldn't care less what Le Tigre do next.

― Arthur (Arthur), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:16 (twenty-three years ago)

taking sides: "sensationalist" "gay" pop which might actually reach an audience to whom it would benefit hearing anything attached to "gay pop" produced by trevor horn vs. rarified art school drop out electro with drumming as stiff as beat happening unable to break out of its own "radical" ghetto

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:21 (twenty-three years ago)

jess and arthur are both OTM. i don't get the appeal of le tigre on any level, while i def. get TaTu (musically as well as wr2 other stuff).

― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:25 (twenty-three years ago)

le tigre do a damn sight more for me aesthetically than tatu. musically i wouldn't know.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:26 (twenty-three years ago)

well, yeah aesthetically they're about equal for me. okay, k hanna is

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:29 (twenty-three years ago)

le tigre's music is more fun than taTu. taTu makes my ears bleed.

― di smith (lucylurex), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:31 (twenty-three years ago)

I am a KH hata so the choice is so very simple.

― Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:46 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think there is anything challenging about tatu's brand of pop. I think they are just commercial love songs that could be pretty much sung by anyone who is already in the charts. It is interesting that they inserted homosexuality into chart pop, but at the same time it is not attacking gender roles in any real way. It is lipstick lesbian pop for straight guys too jerk off over. I think TATU would be _vastly_ more revolutionary if it was the same musical idea with two openly gay young men. Nothing is being challenged, TATU slots right into what is sexually acceptable perhaps taboo, but acceptable nonetheless.

Le Tigre is much more confrontational, and to me at least, makes me think about gender issues a bit more. I think perhaps Le Tiger might be more effective because they have the ability to make people start asking questions that they might have been willing to ask if the ideas were more available to them. While they might not be able to break out of the queer ghetto nearly as easily as TATU, they might be better because anything subversive about TATU will have already been filtered out by the assumptions of the straight community at large.

I am not sure which in necessarily better, but I know that Le Tigre has influenced my musical thinking far more than TATU has. Also, I have a huge crush on Kathleen Hanna. Thank goodness unrequited love is the best kind of love there is.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:47 (twenty-three years ago)

fuck t.a.t.u - i hope those girls die from an overdose of vagina

― JP Albin (John Paul Albin), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:48 (twenty-three years ago)

i hope i die that way too

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:49 (twenty-three years ago)

Also, by definition, TATU had to sand down anything truly subversive if they were ever to stand a chance at recieving any kind of mainstream interest.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:50 (twenty-three years ago)

Le Tigre. Everyone's aware Hanna's straight, right?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:51 (twenty-three years ago)

haha yea

― JP Albin (John Paul Albin), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:53 (twenty-three years ago)

That isn't actually why I chose them, though

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:54 (twenty-three years ago)

who cares about "subversion"? what is this, an undergrad English class?

i like TaTu's music, and i dislike Le Tigre's music. it's as simple as that and it ends there.

― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 27 March 2003 02:55 (twenty-three years ago)

i mean all this critiquing of the notion of "authenticity" is fine with me. i adore gillian welch, and shes not an authentic southern woman. but taTu don't even do a good job of trying to convince us they're authentically lesbian. maybe if they did, i could think they were in some way challenging. but thats not the issue anyway. le tigre make me dance in beth's lounge and in my bedroom and i sing their songs in the shower. taTu don't do any of those things for me. their guitar sound is really grating, and "all the things she said" is rather boring. and if people think le tigre can't put the message out there: i have given "feminist sweepstakes" as birthday present to a few people who wouldn't otherwise have been interested in queer, feminist independent music. and they all love it.

― di smith (lucylurex), Thursday, 27 March 2003 03:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Just when you think there might be a bridge or something it just goes 'ALL THE THINGS SHE SAID' AGAIN, it's funny. I suppose this is fantastically daring and poptastic structuring, haven't they rooted each other at some point?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 27 March 2003 03:06 (twenty-three years ago)

"...TATU had to sand down anything truly subversive..."

I missed that sanding stuff--is there a video? Sounds hot.

― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Thursday, 27 March 2003 04:46 (twenty-three years ago)

TATU has Trevor Horn on their side. And even bad Trevor Horn is still, er, touched by the hand of Horn. So TATU wins.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 27 March 2003 05:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Did he even do anything except turn the tape on? How he's gone from Slave to the Rhythm and Left to My Own Devices to THIS I cannot see.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 27 March 2003 05:24 (twenty-three years ago)

i would rather listen to le tigre

― geeta, Thursday, 27 March 2003 05:27 (twenty-three years ago)

"Dectacon", "Phanta", nearly all of the first record, is maybe one of the best pop records I own. Tatu have one annoying single. I know enough lesbians in real life, I don't need fake popstar ones!

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 27 March 2003 05:30 (twenty-three years ago)

do you want a medal?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 27 March 2003 05:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes! I really do hope everyone's impressed I know some lesbians!

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 27 March 2003 05:53 (twenty-three years ago)

I am shocked and awed.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 27 March 2003 06:29 (twenty-three years ago)

You are kidding, right?

― That Girl (thatgirl), Thursday, 27 March 2003 06:34 (twenty-three years ago)

No, I really didn't know Andrew knew any lesbians. I thought he lived a lesbian free life.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 27 March 2003 06:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Skipping 137 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Sid's my favourite out of those! Great examples, though

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 28 March 2003 10:31 (twenty-three years ago)

TaTu and Junior Senior are the revenge of Europop.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 28 March 2003 10:32 (twenty-three years ago)

''i don't believe there's anything inherently revolutionary or radical about music which excludes itself from popular culture. i don't disdain it, necessarily, and there are certainly other advantages to that sort of purposeful exclusion. but when you are trying to be any sort of "issue" band, at this point the idea of such exclusion strikes me as counterproductive when we're sliding at such a rapid pace into the face of mutually assured destruction on all sides (political, social, sexual).''

oh no! where does that leave derek bailey and morton feldman! oh no!!! ;-)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 28 March 2003 10:47 (twenty-three years ago)

nice to see you back blount.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 28 March 2003 10:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Dealing w/musical not social issues, I guess. Hey Ned, you spotted the Linkin Park thing! I'd forgotten till just then.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 28 March 2003 10:57 (twenty-three years ago)

heh improv is even worse than indie in this regard julio!

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 28 March 2003 16:29 (twenty-three years ago)

hanna makes use of the queer community, then returns to her world of white hetrosexist privelege

damn straight

― schnellschnell, Friday, 28 March 2003 16:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey I like straights leave them alone

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 28 March 2003 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

do you want a--hey! let go!!

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 28 March 2003 16:53 (twenty-three years ago)

My buddy's site pits Le Tigre vs. another well-known queer band:

http://www.geocities.com/hellaneotwee/bands.html

― Paula G., Friday, 28 March 2003 16:54 (twenty-three years ago)

The CTeasers did 'Reynard the Fox'??

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 28 March 2003 16:57 (twenty-three years ago)

Anyone remember Femme 2 Femme?

― dave q, Friday, 28 March 2003 16:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 28 March 2003 16:59 (twenty-three years ago)

200

― , Friday, 28 March 2003 17:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Suddenly I want heroin

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 28 March 2003 17:03 (twenty-three years ago)

Hairy Wine, mmmm.

― Paula G., Friday, 28 March 2003 17:04 (twenty-three years ago)

HARRY BUSH

― , Friday, 28 March 2003 17:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Country Teasers rool Le Tigre by a mile!

(g--ff c-nn-n has quickly become one of my fave posters -- i love everything you've said in this thread...)

My experience with taTu is kinda weird, cuz I heard them in a completely different context. A good friend of mine when to Moscow for a few weeks about a year or two ago, and came back with shitloads of records -- he just bought everything on the Russian pop charts. He and I spent a night listening through all of this stuff, and the best by far were the taTu records. They sounded hard and fresh and bouncy and the best kind of Europop. A few months later I hear the story behind them (in Blender, I guess it was), and it's caused this complete disconnect for me between who taTu the musical act and taTu the media act are. I think that I like them both equally, though if it were two American girls from Toledo pretending to dyke it out in a bid to dominate the charts I would probably hate it. But somehow taTu being Ruskies makes it seem okay... Otherness upon otherness makes a gimmick work? I dunno.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 28 March 2003 17:07 (twenty-three years ago)

HARRY PUSSY

― schnellschnell, Friday, 28 March 2003 17:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Le Tigre : society gets the bad feminist music it deserves. What did you expect.

And I choke at the notion that being married and having kids is a privilege for women. You can have the little bastards.

― Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 28 March 2003 17:19 (twenty-three years ago)

No I can't, I have no uterus you moron

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 28 March 2003 17:21 (twenty-three years ago)

''heh improv is even worse than indie in this regard julio!''

funny bcz improv is the one thing that blows through any 'popular is the only thing capable of being radical' type theories.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 28 March 2003 17:22 (twenty-three years ago)

is that psycho lezza really married to ad rock or some former mysoginist who can't mc?

― schnellschnell, Friday, 28 March 2003 17:23 (twenty-three years ago)

"HARRY PUSSY"

Well invoked. "Ride a Dove" would be a nice album title for TaTu as well. (Hi Yanc3y, what's up buddy?)

― Paula G., Friday, 28 March 2003 17:23 (twenty-three years ago)

In an Emergency You Can Shit on a Puerto Rican Whore

― schnellschnell, Friday, 28 March 2003 17:28 (twenty-three years ago)

anyway the new glass candy lp is far better at death dizko than le tigre could ever dream to be

― schnellschnell, Friday, 28 March 2003 17:30 (twenty-three years ago)

I bet they actually do wake up and for a second think 'hey we're good!' then go 'oh, wait, we're not really Glass Candy', I usually do.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 28 March 2003 17:32 (twenty-three years ago)

― schnellschnell, Friday, 28 March 2003 17:32 (twenty-three years ago)

no, because they COULD NEVER DREAM TO BE better than glass candy which is what my post says fuck-packet

― schnellschnell, Friday, 28 March 2003 17:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Yr limiting their very dreams? You are a powerful fellow.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 28 March 2003 17:37 (twenty-three years ago)

(ok it just popped into my head that exact phrase K Hanna said of Mrs Doubtfire "that is, like, so totallysuperfucked?!" Carry on.)

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Friday, 28 March 2003 20:26 (twenty-three years ago)

I think a lot of people have raised that issue about Mrs. Doubtfire. I think this can be slightly point-missing with regard to the story of the absent father's redemption and rededication -- but it's true that there is something weirdly violating about his level of subterfuge (it's a creepy illegal home-invasion, bsically), and showing it on Mother's Day is super-mega-pointmissing well beyond anything else.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 28 March 2003 20:39 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean, it's a story of redemption, yeah, but it's also the story of a guy who tricks his wife into taking him back. (Admittedly this is the plot of every guy-in-drag movie, "I only lied to be closer to you." I'd say roughly half of these movies have a scene where the woman feels violated and misused and runs off, but she always comes back in the end.) (Which is funny because no one would do that: most people would feel not only violated by the guy-in-drag ruse but also decide that the guy in question had gone completely psychotic and should be kept away from forever.)

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 28 March 2003 20:41 (twenty-three years ago)

haha nitsuh how do you have the time to give all this thought to like, mrs. doubtfire?

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 28 March 2003 21:09 (twenty-three years ago)

ALL THE THINGS SHE SAID RUNNING THROUGH MY HEAD RUNNING THROUGH MÝ HEAD

― , Friday, 28 March 2003 21:10 (twenty-three years ago)

heh, the first time I heard of taTu was when trife mentioned he was gonna review them and I acted like I knew who they were, though at that point I'd only seen them mentioned on ILx maybe once. I saw trife about two weeks ago outside a Queens of da Stone Age show, we almost got to witness a fight, Ned Raggett's name came up, he asked me if I'd seen 8 Mile yet, I asked who had the 'Talia Shire in Rocky I' role (Mekhi Phifer was my guess). Trife was hanging with Julian Koster of the Music Tapes. Ponder that!

― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 28 March 2003 21:17 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, the last time i talked to him he said he was in deep with the elephant six crew; said he was hanging out at magnum's studio thingee

this is why i am never talking to him again

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 28 March 2003 21:20 (twenty-three years ago)

That's a pretty white boyish thing to do hahaha

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 March 2003 21:24 (twenty-three years ago)

no.
what i am saying is playing dyke while fucking boys isnt cool, heterosexist privelege.

― anthony easton (anthony), Friday, 28 March 2003 21:33 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm sorry, Anthony, where has Kathleen Hanna ever a) claim to be a dyke or b) pretended to be a dyke. I mean you make it sound as though she's attempting to gain some advantage with her fantastic "I AM A LESBIAN" disguise kit, but I just don't see it.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 March 2003 21:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Where can I get an "I AM A LESBIAN" disguise kit?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 28 March 2003 22:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm sure Spencer's Gifts carries them.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 28 March 2003 22:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Weren't Fuzzbox great? Why'd they have to go and do that shitty cover of "Spirit in the Sky"?

― Arthur (Arthur), Saturday, 29 March 2003 00:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Bottle of mineral water included?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 29 March 2003 02:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Ned Raggett's name came up

The hell?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 29 March 2003 02:42 (twenty-three years ago)

don't blame me, i didn't invent sexism. don't blame me, i didn't invent sexism. don't blame me, i didn't invent sexism. don't blame me, i didn't invent sexism. don't blame me, i didn't invent sexism. don't blame me, i didn't invent sexism. don't blame me, i didn't invent sexism. don't blame me, i didn't invent sexism. don't blame me, i didn't invent sexism. don't blame me, i didn't invent sexism.

― [email protected] (lucylurex), Saturday, 29 March 2003 02:51 (twenty-three years ago)

sigh.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 29 March 2003 02:54 (twenty-three years ago)

I invented sexism and I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids!!

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 29 March 2003 06:26 (twenty-three years ago)

TATU does the sex. Like me. If I was a hot Ruskie lesbian, that is.

Gimme Deathpunk Baby!
And I like it.
Like It! Love it!
Like It! Love it!
Like It! Love it!
Right! On!

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Saturday, 29 March 2003 06:29 (twenty-three years ago)

I have an "honorary lesbian" button that my lesbian posse back in NYC gave me.

Also I don't really like TATU or Le Tigre that much, from what little I've heard of each.

― Chris P (Chris P), Saturday, 29 March 2003 10:50 (twenty-three years ago)

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