Fountains of Wayne "Welcome Interstate Managers": Classic or Dud?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

4 star classic, I say. Successfully blends the last 4 decades of music into one great style, I say. Picks up where the first album left off, I say. But, also has enough of the second album's sound to keep it all in the family, I say. I say, I hope they become more productive. I will be seeing them at Irving Plaza with Ben Lee on July 10th, by jove I say.

― Scaredy Cat, Sunday, 15 June 2003 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Classic, especially "Mexican Wine", "Bright Future In Sales", "Hackensack" and "Halley's Waitress".

― Simon H., Sunday, 15 June 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

What do you think of "Hey Julie"? I think the lyrics are really great and I like the song, but my girlfriend is starting to play it without just letting the album play through and I fear she is going to make me sick of it. I don't want that to happen because it so aptly describes so many people's daily lives.

― Scaredy Cat, Sunday, 15 June 2003 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

A lot better than UP, but nowhere near as classic as the S/T. I really loved it at first, but I've been liking it less and less.

― Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Sunday, 15 June 2003 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, that first one is really special.

― Scaredy Cat, Sunday, 15 June 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm really curious about it. Though after being disappointed by that New Pornographers album (which was WAY to powerpuff girls), I'm kinda timid about trusting the classy-pop crowd.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 15 June 2003 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks for reminding me I bought that New Pornographers album. I really must remember to trade it back in before it loses all of it's value. It's still sort of a new release, right? That album was a big, major womping letdown. I guess some times an idea is only worth about a dozen songs or so (in this case, an idea being a band).

― Scaredy Cat, Sunday, 15 June 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

As already said on the other FOW thread - yep, CLASSIC. 16 songs and not a dud. Doesn't quite scale the heights of Utopia Parkway's best songs (i.e. Prom Theme, A Fine Day For A Parade, Denise, Red Dragon Tattoo, I Know You Well), but a very enjoyable 55 minutes. Just wish the last song were longer.

Standouts: Stacy's Mom, Supercollider, Hey Julie, Hung Up On You, Valley Winter Song.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 16 June 2003 05:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Some classics (for some reason my favorite songs are all mellow ones: "Hackensack", "Valley Winter Song", "Fire Island"), but also more filler than I'm used to for a Fountains of Wayne album. Drop "No Better Place", "All Kinds Of Time", "Hung Up On You", and "Peace And Love" from the tracklist and you've got a much snappier and more cohesive album (12 songs, 39 minutes).

― Nick Mirov (nick), Monday, 16 June 2003 06:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone know if this has been / is it going to be released in the UK at all?

I'm sure I read a review of it in one or other of the UK music mag.s but none of the UK on-line stores I've tried seem to be stocking it other than as an import complete with the inevitable long lead time and accompanying high price tag....

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 16 June 2003 08:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, a quick visit to my local indie record store to ask for this resulted in dumb stares from the clerks as well. A shame, because I don't think I've ever looked forward to an album as much as this.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 16 June 2003 12:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I really loved this record. I think they retained what makes them great while simultaneously expanding their sound. If any of y'all are interested, I wrote it up on Stylus.

I'm also one of the few (but proud) who thinks Utopia Parkway is substantially better than the S/T. I thought the first record, as good as it was, kind of dragged in places. Utopia Parkway doesn't have a weak song in the bunch.

― Jay Millikan, Monday, 16 June 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

"Utopia Parkway" does have a week song though ("Hat and Feet"). They should have just put their cover of "Today's Teardrops" from the single version of "Red Dragon Tattoo" on it instead of that.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Utopia Parkway has a whole weak middle section. Half those songs are so forgettable. It really is a shame considering all the great b-side and live material they were working on at the time.

― Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Monday, 16 June 2003 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

See, I don't agree. I like the entire middle of Utopia Parkway. It's "Utopia Parkway" (the song) and "The Senator's Daughter" that are my least favourites, and they're at the beginning and end respectively.

"Hat and Feet" is great! "Today's Teardrops" is better, admittedly.

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 00:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with Jay -- that record kicks from beginning to end.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Amazon.co.uk, in their infinite wisdom, have now decided to announce that the import version of this album isn't going to be released until 23rd June - so how come all you bastards have got copies of it already? You can't ALL be getting advanced review copies, surely?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 20 June 2003 06:48 (twenty-two years ago)

They downloaded it, obviously. I know I did, but I'll buy it next time I'm shopping.

― edward o (edwardo), Friday, 20 June 2003 07:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Regarding "Hung Up On You", has anyone ever heard anything by Chris Collingwood's pre-FoW band the Mercy Buckets? They were supposed to be country... I was just curious if this was one of their old songs.

(Allmusic digression: sheesh, who pissed in Stephen Thomas Erlewine's coffee the day he wrote the Utopia Parkway review?)

― Nick Mirov (nick), Friday, 20 June 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

The urine was Matthew Sweet's, apparently.

― Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Friday, 20 June 2003 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not grabbing me. I'm seeing them tonite at Housing Works (in-store live-acoustic--I sort of regret it now.

― Mary (Mary), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris from FoW thinks Ira Robbins and I are dating.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

"Hey Julie," "Halley's Waitress," "Mexican Wine," "Stacy's Mom," "Hackensack," "Peace and Love," "Yours And Mine," "Bright Future In Sales" : classic

I haven't really decided what I make of the other songs just yet. I've been slowly going through the album and getting to know a couple songs at a time. "Hey Julie" and "Stacy's Mom" are my two favorites, though.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 20 June 2003 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

"Hey Julie" is THE most FoW song title in history.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 21 June 2003 09:53 (twenty-two years ago)

five months pass...

Revive so you all remember to vote for it in year end polls.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 5 December 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

The Grammys did my favorite thing that they always do and nominated Fountains of Wayne for Best New Artist. Other nominees included Sheryl Crow, Alan Jackson, and the Clash.

― nabiscothingy, Friday, 5 December 2003 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

OK, so revive I guess.

I'm not reading any the P&J threads - since I'm not a writer, P&J is just another EOY poll to me, no big deal. But I am curious that a record of whose existence I wasn't even aware has ranked so high. That and edward o's recommendation upthread has got me interested.

So, for those who like / voted for this record, why is it so great? And if you think it's dud, why is it a dud?

P.S. Comparisons to other FoW records are of no use to me - I don't think I've heard a note of their music (hey, I'm English).

― Jeff W (zebedee), Thursday, 12 February 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is it so great?

It has a lovely country song, a few pretty acoustic strum-along singalongs, a few chunky guitar power-pop monsters and a few thoughtful slower ones. It's clever, but accessible. Oh, and there isn't a downright bad song on there.

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 12 February 2004 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

FOW are just one of those groups of this era, who are just brilliant, but because they aren't that attractive, or dress fashionably, they'll never be famous. Which is a shame, cos every album they've made have been far better than any of that fashionable music

― jellybean (jellybean), Thursday, 12 February 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I enjoy the album but I could use a few less quotation marks. That echo at the end of every line of "Stacy's Mom" rankles a bit and I finally lose my steam on the album when that "country" song comes up. Did they really need to follow the cliches to the letter?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 February 2004 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Revive so you all remember to vote for it in year end polls.
-- Dom Passantino (lifetimepilingu...), December 5th, 2003.

I ALTERED THE P AND J POLL MOTHERFUCKERS!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 February 2004 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

frankly, I think their formalism and rigidity is just too evident sometimes.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 February 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

and they SUCKED live opening for the Smashing Pumpkins back on that Melon Collie tour. Sucked live on Leno recently too.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 February 2004 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

If they put half as much effort into writing original riffs (rather than a pastiche of 70's/80's power-pop cliches) as their fans do into justifying FoW's condescending, sappy, and often hateful lyrics, they'd be a tremendous band. Extra points deducted for unneccesary shots of a twelve-year-old girl's ass in the Stacy's Mom video. Anyone who reads "Hey Julie" as a love song to Julie, rather than a hate song to anyone unfortunate enough to spill soup on their unfashionable tie, is missing the point. The country western song "Hung Up On You" is unbearable, as is most of the tail end of album. They're every bit as clever and slick as the people who brought us "American Beauty" and if you thought that that movie took a stand against sleeping with your daughter's friends, you'll be right at home with Fountains of Wayne's "common people" schtick.

Schlesinger's other band, Ivy, is a hell of a lot better, and much more honest about his true sympathies. Nonetheless, at this point FoW could probably record a song called "New Jersey residents are fucking retards" over a tape of "I Want You To Want Me" and their fans would praise its catchy hooks and craft.

― dlp9001, Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Funnily enough, none of FoW's fans on here have praised this so-called "common people" schtick. We just think it's catchy.

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

You forgot to accuse them of being paedophiles this time, dlp. But, other than that, it's the same post you've made on FoW about 20 times in this forum. Define "common people" schitck, anyway? Writing songs about actually, shock horror, having a job?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:09 (twenty-two years ago)

On the contrary re: pedophilia. "Unnecessary shots of a twelve-year-old girls ass." Though to be fair, that's more about their video director.

Call me old fashioned, but I like to see better reasons to dislike your job than workin' for a mean ol' man with a soup-stained clip-on tie. Why do you think they chose to make it clip-on, I wonder.

― dlp9001, Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Good album , but the last couple of songs are not that great.

― steven schenk (skenker), Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Better reasons to dislike your job than working for a mean old man with a soup-stained clip on tie? Such as him having you running around the office like a dog around a track? Or him tripping you up and wearing you down? Or hours on the phone maing pointless calls? Anyway, the songs about how Julie makes his life bearable. And the clip-on tie thing is tied in in the lyrics with his "rub on" tan, ie, his boss is lazy and obsessed with appearance.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never heard of the Mercy Buckets, Collingwood perfomed the song with another group of his called the Gay Potaoes, who played, like, one show. There are mp3s floating around.

― Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

People obsessed with their appearance don't wear clip-on ties. Lower middle-class people who don't know the "rules" wear them.

― dlp9001, Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

No, people who aren't obsessed with appearance don't wear ties at all. Nice use of "lower middle class" as well, there, strongly reminiscent of Nick Hornby's complaint about certain groups moving into football, leaving the "proper fans, ie the working and lower-middle classes", left out.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

And let's not forget the bad toupee. I'm from America, so comparisons with Nick Hornby may not be especially appropriate. You and I may be speaking different cultural languages, though I'm not sure.

― dlp9001, Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

But on the contrary (not to turn this into a discussion about dress codes). People who work at jobs that require ties wear ties.

― dlp9001, Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, of course. But the idea is that this guy is a basic, standard, asshole boss cliche. Fountains of Wayne songs are all written as stories, featuring characters, right? (Chris Collingwood isn't 14, for a start). Now, when writing actual bona fide *stories* from the viewpoints of *characters* in the context of 3 minute pop songs that have hooks and middle eights and all that other malarkey, shortcuts have to be used. Yes?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

It's disturbing that these shortcuts have a theme. The biker (Please Leave The Biker) has food in his beard (lower class manners) and...he's a biker. The "ape" in Radiation Vibe reads Playboy on the couch. The waitress in Halley's Waitress (temporarily working class, maybe, maybe not) takes too long to bring FoW their coffee (lazy). Are there any FoW songs that use characteristics of, say, a sylishly dressed French chanteuse, as the source of their "humor"? Do we think that *Adam Schlesinger* ever really aspired to look like the guy from Korn? These are the questions that keep me up at night.

― dlp9001, Thursday, 12 February 2004 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but in both "Leave the Biker" and "Red Dragon Tattoo" the joke is on Collingwood/Schlesinger. ("I wonder if he ever cried/ Because his kitten got ran over and died?").

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 February 2004 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the one crux of your argument I will take is that Fountains of Wayne's songs do occupy a particular world, the world of Collingwood/Schlesinger themselves. However, to try and infer some kind of class warfare into their lyrics seems sadly misguided.

As for "Halley's Waitress", qf "Waitress" by Tori Amos.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 February 2004 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, the working class don't have "agents" to phone.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 February 2004 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate to keep disagreeing, but as someone who used to be a bookkeeper for a restaurant, I can absolutely guarantee you that there are plenty of career waiters who nonetheless have agents.

As for the world that Collingwood and Schlesinger occupy, I see no evidence that they inhabit the world of working-class New Jersey. Note that in their song about the prom, the protaganists are playing air guitar while destined for dreary jobs in the workplace: exactly the opposite of the case with Mr. C and Mr. S.

What they seem to have cornered the market on is singing songs about one particular class for the appreciation of members of another class that sits a few rungs higher on the career ladder. Until now, when they've finally managed to cross over thanks to a T&A video. I really can't think of a much more cynical move.

If you can ignore a lot of the subtext, and if you can keep yourself from letting their riffs remind you of other, earlier riffs, I'll grant that they're reasonably skilled at putting their songs together.

― dlp9001, Thursday, 12 February 2004 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Define "crossover". I mean, how big a hit actually was "Radiation Vibe"? I honestly don't know, US chart figures are a bastard to get online.

Also: "Prom Theme" makes no reference to jobs, or really anything of the post-prom reality. Sure, they'll "grow old and lose their hair", but that's it. "Utopia Parkway" is surely an album about childhood lost? Maybe you can extrapolate "Stacey's Mom" from that angle as well, all things considered.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 February 2004 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

This is what I have for Prom Theme:

And soon we'll say goodbye
Then we'll work until we die

But tonight we feel like we're stars
We'll play our air guitars

I suppose you could argue that FoW are "working" but I don't think that's what's meant here. Especially given that most of the workers in their songs are in low-level office positions.

― dlp9001, Thursday, 12 February 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

"Work until we die"- engage in a life of drudgery, surely? I'm assuming that C and S worked in office positions before the band took off? (My chronology is kinda iffy here, but surely there were a few years between pissing around with James Iha and them actually having a deal?)

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 February 2004 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Even if they did work office jobs, they were trying to be musicians, where their characters have given up that kind of ambition. FoW workers dream of being heads of sales or of just getting a day off. Or have unrealistic aspirations that they (and we) know aren't going to happen. C & S never allow their characters the possiblity of, say, writing the title song for a Tom Hanks movie, or having a novelty hit thanks to a dubious video. Basically, their characters have their options restricted in a way that C&S haven't.

― dlp9001, Thursday, 12 February 2004 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

So are you saying that the characters that C&S *voice*, as in actually conduct the song from the viewpoint of, are themselves in these situations, or fully realised characters that have nothing to do with them? Because your arguement could be seen as being both.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 February 2004 23:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Until now, when they've finally managed to cross over thanks to a T&A video. I really can't think of a much more cynical move.

So what? They're a pop group, they're supposed to master the art of entrism.

The songs are just amusing little stories, read class into it all you want, but it's just not that obvious to everyone, and I don't care because [geir]the songs are catchy with strong melodies[/geir] and really deft lyrical hooks.

Dom OTM. As usual.

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 12 February 2004 23:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Hah, yeah, this is definitely my Geir album of 2003. I remember how a review of Utopia Parkway compared them to Simon and Garfunkel, and there's a lot of truth in that, a lot of respect, almost reverence for the art of the song. Except with FoW, it's AM radio pop of the 70s, rather than folk.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 12 February 2004 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

There's no arguing with catchy melodies/strong hooks, I suppose, since they're in the ear of the beholder. But I say that much/most of FoW's are derivative, and since I've already heard them elsewhere, they're not particularly interesting. As for amusing, I see that the songs are trying to be funny, but it's humor that's ultimately rooted in a sort of mean-spirited world where the only ones who get to tell the jokes are FoW. I'm willing to overlook a lot in the name of catchy, but FoW just aren't innovative enough to compensate.

― dlp9001, Friday, 13 February 2004 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Have you had any form of personal experience with the band? One of the posts you made previously seemed to hint that you had.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 13 February 2004 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

But, anyway, of course they're derivative! That's what's so great about FoW, they're everything that you love on "classic" stations rolled into a guitar-pop package.

And, my god, a band doing decent guitar pop in 2004 is something of a minor miracle.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 13 February 2004 00:10 (twenty-two years ago)

No, no formal experience. I did get to hear tapes of their first album early on (pre-release), as I was recording in the same studio that they did. But I don't have any sort of grudge based on personal experience. I actually intended to like them, but found myself gradually becoming unable to really get my heart into it: I didn't set out to dislike this band.

― dlp9001, Friday, 13 February 2004 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you saying that the songs aren't good enough to overcome the (what you see as questionable) message, or that it's a dud message and a dud band?

Also: would you give more leeway to them if they were from a genre wherein being an asshole is seen as a positive? Punk, hip-hop, etc.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 13 February 2004 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

That does seem like an odd argument though: that because there isn't much decent guitar pop these days, we have to like whatever gets presented. An alternate view might be that because there isn't much decent guitar pop, we should go listen to Dizzee Rascal instead. (I got my guitar pop fix from The 88 last year, with an assist from Laptop.)

― dlp9001, Friday, 13 February 2004 00:29 (twenty-two years ago)

There's not much decent guitar pop nowadays, no, but the UK market (to the delight of one or two posters on here I imagine) is about to be flooded with 1500 identikit power-poppers, which was probably why I was so adamant for, and happy upon arrival of, the recognition of WIM as a great album.

(How actually are Laptop? I loved that one "I'm So Happy You Failed" song when I was, what, 16, and I've heard fuck all from them since).

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 13 February 2004 00:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I think they have a few songs that are musically strong enough to overcome the lyrics (Radiation Vibe springs to mind). From the new one I'd pick Bought For a Song and No Better Place. But again, Bought For a Song has that "funny" singing voice dragging it down, and No Better Place's main hook is lifted directly from another song. I can't listen to it without hearing its source, and that shouldn't happen with good pop.

And yes, I'm more uncomfortable with (simplifying here) rich people making fun of poor people than the reverse.

― dlp9001, Friday, 13 February 2004 00:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Laptop: so unknown in the US that they're hardly worth discussing. They got one Pazz & Jop vote. They had an album out last year that starts out very strong but drops off a bit towards the end.

― dlp9001, Friday, 13 February 2004 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm starting to think that there is actually some decent guitar pop around, it's just that it's not coming from the places we used to hear it. I'm looking to Europe for the stuff now.

Actually, dlp has a point about the singing voice on Bought For A Song.. it almost derails the thing. Doesn't though.

― edward o (edwardo), Friday, 13 February 2004 02:03 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

revive coz it just occured to me that FOW are the american black box recorder. (yeah, i know, "just")

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 3 April 2006 16:13 (twenty years ago)

Dom's posts upthread are hi-larious.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 3 April 2006 16:26 (twenty years ago)

sixteen years pass...

This album is perfect

― j.o.h.n. in evanston (john. a resident of chicago.), Saturday, 28 January 2023 17:18 (three years ago)

Mexican Wine i think is my favorite, it’s so much fun to sing - the words are all fun to say together & just kinda roll off the tongue in a fun way

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 28 January 2023 18:47 (three years ago)

i love this album
mexican wine and hackensack personal favs

― nxd, Saturday, 28 January 2023 19:17 (three years ago)

Can't believe I never posted in this thread. "Mexican Wine" is incredible, one of the best things they ever made.

Dom hightly otm upthread that the butt of the joke in "Leave the Biker" is not the biker but the non-biker protagonist

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Saturday, 28 January 2023 20:04 (three years ago)

"Bright Future in Sales," yeah yeah

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 28 January 2023 20:05 (three years ago)

An all-time fave of mine, but I do think if you just remove tracks 10-13 - or at least three of those four - it's a better album.

Tracks 1-9 are perfect, though.

Agree with VegemiteGrrl, there is something about Mexican Wine that is so fun to sing. My vinyl reissue from a few years ago lists it as "Mexican Summer" on the jacket!

― alpine static, Sunday, 29 January 2023 20:29 (three years ago)

Different album, I know, but my eight year old son recently declared "Sink to the Bottom" to be the best song of all time. I am feeling very positive about my parenting skills.

― Vast Halo, Sunday, 29 January 2023 22:03 (three years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.