Which Icarus has fallen the furthest?

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Prince and McCartney are two prime candidates but I don't think anyone has both soared and plummetted like Lou Reed. Velvet Underground followed by some brilliant solo efforts, including the magisterial Berlin, the perverse Metal Machine Music, the melancholic Coney Island Baby... Then something went terribly, terribly wrong, around the time of Growing Up In Public. The eighties were bad, but then again they were bad for most sixties people. Some people say New York was a return to form, I think it's overrated. But there was worse to follow. Can there be anything as bad as Reed's 90s albums? Yes indeed, his latest effort, PoeTry which is possibly the worst thing ever inflicted on the music-buying public.

― Susan (Susan), Thursday, 14 August 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Worse than Sinatra/McKuen?

― dave q, Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

COURTNEY LOVE

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: The 80s vs 'Kent State'

― dave q, Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

brett anderson. no seriously.

― piscesboy, Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know McKuen, but as for Sinatra - well he was always a mix of the sublime and the ridiculous, wasn't he? For every Songs For Swinging Lovers you had to put up with tripe like Love & Marriage etc. True, he went definitively off the boil in the sixties, but he was getting on by then. Mind you, it's true that Lou Reed has never done anything as embarrassing as a duet with Bono.

― Susan (Susan), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Courtney Love didn't have far to fall, Jon.

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

What about New York Doll David Johannson-- AKA Buster Pointdexter of "Hot Hot Hot" fame?

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Lou Reed did duet with Bono, didn't he? On a big screen. "Satellite of Love" on the ZooTV tour, I think.

― retort pouch (retort pouch), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I should like to nominate Steve Winwood - although he never got as close to the sun as Lou did.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll hear nothing against Buster Poindexter

And I agree that Lou Reed is king Icarus here. Wot a loser.

You can argue that ol' Carl Santana has really, REALLY lost it too though

― roger adultery, Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Ted Nugent

― dave q, Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

winwood? valerie is a great tune & better than the majority of traffic.

isn't johannson doing some sort of harry smith tribute thing? that keeps him somewhere out of the bottom ranks, i'd think, unless it's truly horrible.

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 14 August 2003 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Contrast Blind Faith with "Higher Love"

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

John Squire / Ian Brown.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Courtney Love didn't have far to fall, Jon.

I heard her new band can't get signed.

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Can't she start her own label with all the Nirvana money?

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Lou Reed's "Ecstacy" was quite good, really. It at least slowed the descent until the truly wretched and awful (and "long awaited") "PoeTry" was released. I can't think of anyone more great and terrible than Lou Reed. Gotta love that, in a way.

― Salmon Pink (Salmon Pink), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Phil mufuckin Collins

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Cobra Commander.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

something went terribly, terribly wrong, around the time of Growing Up In Public

"Growing Up In Public" is hilarious, it's funnier than anything Woody Allen's done in years. Errrrrrr, hold on after that came "The Blue Mask" and "Legendary Hearts" which were both pretty good. If you really want to listen to dross listen to a Dylan album of the 80s.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: Legendary Hearts vs. Infidels

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Phil mufuckin Collins

But the highest he has ever flown is to play drums on a Brian Eno album.

― Salmon Pink (Salmon Pink), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

wouldn't some people in this thread bring Elvis Costello to the table? (not me)

― southern lights (southern lights), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Then something went terribly, terribly wrong, around the time of Growing Up In Public.

He got married.

― Salmon Pink (Salmon Pink), Thursday, 14 August 2003 17:58 (twenty-two years ago)

...and stopped drinking

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 14 August 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Phil Collins was an awesome drummer, yes also on the Eno albums but especially on the early Genesis albums!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 14 August 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Neil Young, anyone?

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 August 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Sean, to quote the great Eazy E, "eat a dick up, muthafucka..."

― roger adultery, Thursday, 14 August 2003 18:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Isn't Brian Wilson rock's greatest Icarus?

― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 14 August 2003 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

krist novoselic

― dave q, Thursday, 14 August 2003 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

what about billy corgan? he was mainstream rock god for a couple years in the nineties, now nobody gives a shit.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 14 August 2003 19:18 (twenty-two years ago)

peter townsend

― thomas de'aguirre (biteylove), Thursday, 14 August 2003 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually really wanted to say Neil Young earlier Crudders, but his career picked back up and he got hella good again, at least IMHO.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 14 August 2003 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Brian Wilson is the Icarus I always think of. See stylusmagazine.com for an article on just how overambitious Smile was. After you have to abandon an album, it must be hard to reach your peak again. I'd back that up with Kraftwerk and the Technopop album, but I haven't heard their new one yet and I'm assuming it's fantastic. (I'd also nominate Morrissey.)

― Maxwell von Bismarck (maxwell von bismarck), Thursday, 14 August 2003 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

John Squire / Ian Brown.

Whoa there buddy! I know you're a big Roses fan and all, but these guys really had a lot to live up to, you know. Anyway, Ian Brown's solo albums(particularly the last 2 albums) aren't bad at all! And Squire-- well, the Seahorses sucked, yeah, but his solo album is really quite good, believe it or not. It just takes some time and quite a few spins to really appreciate.

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Thursday, 14 August 2003 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

but the stone roses didn't take any effort to love.

― keith (keithmcl), Friday, 15 August 2003 02:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Growing Up In Public was like Berlin pt. II!

Legendary Hearts was great too.

Rock & Roll Heart was his worst.

and motherfuck all the critics liked New York and Magic & Loss instead. Bleh.

PoeTry is also good in bits and mostly off in the readings by others.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 15 August 2003 02:13 (twenty-two years ago)

It seems to me that Lou Reed's biggest problem is over-confidence. He lacks the ability to edit himself. It's like everything he writes, he assumes is good enough to pt on the album. This became especially apparent when the main format went from record to cd. His albums jumped from being regularly about 45 minutes to being 60+ minutes. Ecstasy could have been a very well-received exciting 45 minute album, but Lou had to go and fuck it up by leaving on way too many unnecessary tracks simply because he had the room. That's also the reason New york isn't very good. Too much filler.

as for PowTry, well, damn, I don't know. It sucks. It's not even good enough to be filler on his mediocre albums. I'm blaming Laurie Anderson. Lou appears to have reached new heights in pretension, and I'm thinking maybe she's just cheering him on.

He should really consider dating men again, rather than marrying and/or dating women who just look like men.

― Moss Feaster, Friday, 15 August 2003 03:21 (twenty-two years ago)

My nominations:

Chuck D: The super ego of hip-hop appears on a Vanilla Ice album.

Morrissey: No label. Terrible solo albums.

Michael Jackson: Obvious.

― Medusa, Friday, 15 August 2003 03:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex Chilton

― David Beckhouse (David Beckhouse), Friday, 15 August 2003 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Listened to the D Gahan solo album today and it really saddened me.

I would nominate Miles Davis due to some of his 80s work but he was darn olde at that point and had put out soo much good music that he is absolved (when Sony/Legacy finished ressiuing I think there will be about 10 box sets total! TEN!, not to mention the two from his time before signing to Columbia).

― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, that Gahan album rules most mightily. I would however say this.

Morrissey: No label.

He's actually now signed to Sanctuary.

Terrible solo albums.

Here we differ in opinion. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:27 (twenty-two years ago)

They used to call him Tricky Kid
Now they call him washed up.

― Leee (Leee), Friday, 15 August 2003 04:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Sean, to quote the great Eazy E, "eat a dick up, muthafucka..."

No thanks. nickalicious' opinion is probably the same as mine; Neil has done some really amazing stuff (I'm listening to On the Beach right now), but goddamn, did he ever have a long string of albums that just plain sucked. Granted, he had a very strong period around Freedom and Ragged Glory (still my fave Neil album), but it's been pretty touch and go ever since, too. I don't think his career path is particularly different from Lou's, to be honest.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Sly Stone

― Paul (scifisoul), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Sean - no way man. Sarcastic bitter apple and orange, maybe, but Lou Reed (as an artist, in every sense of the word) isn't in the same galaxy as Neil. As far as Neil's albums that "sucked," I can only think of one that flat out sucks and that's "Landing On Water," every other album has at least one or two great things to redeem it.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

James Brown. As for Ian ... I still hope that one day I'll understand what the fuss was about.

― nestmanso (nestmanso), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

amen to Ned, Morrissey is forever classic.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

every other album has at least one or two great things to redeem it.
Fair enough (and I totally agree...and I even like at least one song off of Landing On Water, but that's still a steep slide from albums that had virtually NO bad songs, in my opinion.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

neil young is always capable of an amazing comeback if hes had a few less good albums (but id agree that they always have a few great things on them even if its not a good album). i mean have any of you seen that SNL clip from 89, where Neil rages thru Rockin In The Free World - its beyond powerful. And that had come after all the 80s dissapointments.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll second Chuck D, and so will anyone else who ever heard or saw Konfrontation Kamp.

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Goldie

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Sly Stone didn't fall from the sun, he just went right fuckin' through it. If most people had 5% of his damaged brain they'd be geniuses

― dave q, Thursday, 21 August 2003 09:49 (twenty-two years ago)

"Songs For Drella", though makes up for a lot of bad Lou Reed.

Bowie?

― Jim Eaton-Terry (Jim E-T), Thursday, 21 August 2003 10:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Eaton Terry - right on both counts.

Drella is incredible, and, yes Bowie is a much better example of an Icarus figure than Lou Reed - at least Lou's latter carrer has been punctuated by sublime moments. Like A Possum? parts of Magic and Loss?

― colin o'hara (jed_e_3), Thursday, 21 August 2003 11:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Not sure if anyone's cited them, but I'd say Public Image Ltd. Consider the plunge in quality and vision from the era of First Issue and Metal Box to the likes of 9 and That What Is Not, let alone Lydon's almost-erased-by-history-already solo effort, Psycho's Path.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 21 August 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Neil Young, no matter how awful some of his records might be, has always been able to deliver the goods live, and I think that should count for something.

Morrissey having no label doesn't sound like a big deal to me (even though he has one now anyway). It's not like he was busting ass to try to find one and everyone was turning him down. He was just in semi-retirement. Which I think is a better thing than just making uninspired crap records for the sake of doing it. I think even his worst solo records are still full of charm as well, but he's always been a singles artist anyway (hell, even the Smiths were to some extent), and none of those have ever let me down.

― Hutlock (Hutlock), Thursday, 21 August 2003 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex is OTM re Lydon, but I must say the initial opinion put forth is the one I share. Sure I love the Velvets; love'em. But Lou's solo career is of so little interest to me. Of special note are his much-vaunted published-poet lyrics, which are mostly embarassing. He can thank Ronson and Bowie for Transformer, and I must admit that I do play Berlin every now and then; but I like feeling rotten.

― Sean (Sean), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

In Lou's favor, I have to admire his work ethic; it may not amount to much, but the man sure turns them out, and it's clear that he's put a lot of effort into them, especially on the lyric end. Maybe it's the sense that the words are so labored-over, and expected (although why they're expected at this point is beyond me) to be great, that they leave a sour taste. If we knew they were throw-aways maybe they'd sound better.

― Sean (Sean), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm guessing troubled geniuses who've fallen out of circulation like Sly Stone and Syd Barrett don't count here, right?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 21 August 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Then something went terribly, terribly wrong, around the time of Growing Up In Public....
b-b-but what about "New York" and "Magic and Loss"*?

*Note: "Magic and Loss" isn't as good as "New York"

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 21 August 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

very true Lord Custos - but they are both very fine album's in Parts - as is "ecstasy"

― colin o'hara (jed_e_3), Thursday, 21 August 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Fly, on your wings like an eagle. Fly. Touch the sun.

― Spinktor the Unmerciful (mawill5), Thursday, 21 August 2003 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I know they don't get a lot of love round here anyway, but surely Oasis have crashed and burned somewhat over the years.

My personal hero who has gone fallen tragically would be Paul Weller, as his solo stuff mings to hell and back, but I'm not sure that's a widely held opinion.

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 21 August 2003 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Fly, on your wings like an eagle. Fly. Touch the sun.

Waiting to see if the ol' air siren does this on Sunday...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 21 August 2003 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

They didn't when I saw them back at the Garden.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 21 August 2003 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

RZA

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 21 August 2003 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

who has gone fallen tragically

Obviously my use of the English language is also plummeting downwards at a great rate...

― ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 21 August 2003 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

By this point, I though there would be at least one Lynyrd Skynyrd/Buddy Holly, et al./Stevie Ray Vaughn joke.

― Bruce Urquhart (Bruce Urquhart), Thursday, 21 August 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...

stevie wonder (the guy actually with ray kurzwiel, is the inventor of MIDI!) stunning debut as kid and all those 70's masterpieces? then he just had to go and call to say...

and then there's television, paul mc cartney, sting, clapton, aretha, prince (who may snap out fit)and i hate to say it but... brian eno!

― dr. a, Wednesday, 10 May 2006 16:08 (twenty years ago)

WHY U GOOGLE THREAD ALL TIME

― autovac (autovac), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 16:37 (twenty years ago)

All I'm gonna say is what was up with the guy who said Alex Chilton?

― Makrugaik (makrugaik), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 17:29 (twenty years ago)

some might say Green Gartside, but supposedly the new Scritti Politti LP is the real deal...

my personal vote: Goldie

― hank (hank s), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 17:54 (twenty years ago)

Alice Cooper?

― LOL Thomas (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 22:40 (twenty years ago)

i love music

― FLOWING STRAIGHT FROM THE SURVIVAL SCROLL (vahid), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 22:42 (twenty years ago)

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