Taking Sides: Rush vs The Darkness

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Rush, for me. And can anyone confirm or deny that the singer used to play keyboards with his feet while singing and playing guitar on live shows?

― snd, Sunday, 11 January 2004 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

well, since you mention it, the first Rush album (s/t) sounds a bit like The Darkness. But as far as what I find myself listening to more, I'd have to go with The Darkness

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 11 January 2004 22:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Rush = good.
Darkness = shit.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 11 January 2004 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Confirm on the quadridexterity: Geddy Lee triggered keyboard sequences with foot pedals while playing bass on some of the material from the eighties on. I believe that they also made use of Moog bass pedals, which are not technically keyboards (they're a kind of synthetic version of organ pedals); not sure if Lee or Alex Lifeson played these.

As for the taking sides, Rush, of course, and I don't even like their music. The Darkness, however, REALLY stink.

― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Sunday, 11 January 2004 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Bass pedals, not keyboards, right?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 11 January 2004 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

No, keyboards -- sequenced synth patterns (they did this on at least one tour in the late '80's -early '90's) triggered by foot pedals.

In line with your recent thread -- U2 do this as well for some of their later material.

― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Sunday, 11 January 2004 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

And can anyone confirm or deny that the singer used to play keyboards

Push it back at least to the mid-70's. Lee was using his feet
for various keyboard-triggered things '76-'78 tours ...
"2112," "All the World's a Stage" and "Farewell to Kings."

― George Smith, Sunday, 11 January 2004 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Who needs the Darkness?

http://www.metal-sludge.com/ExposedMikeTramp3.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 January 2004 23:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Songs by the Darkness I can usually listen to about 1/3 to 2/3rds of the way through. Songs by Rush I have to turn off after 30 seconds. I guess the Darkness have it.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 11 January 2004 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

The real question is, whose fans are dorkier?

It'd be Rush all the way, then.

― lone nut, Monday, 12 January 2004 00:12 (twenty-two years ago)

...Their fans are dorkier, I mean.

― lone nut, Monday, 12 January 2004 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Both make great music
Both have extremely annoying singers
Despite their facist lyrics, I choose Rush for their sense of musical ambition though.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 12 January 2004 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Songs by Rush I have to turn off after 30 seconds.

Yet Good Charlotte is great for you. The mind reels.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 January 2004 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Songs by Rush I have to turn off after 30 seconds.
Yet Good Charlotte is great for you. The mind reels.
-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), January 12th, 2004.

No, it's okay. They can both suck at the same time.

― David Allen (David Allen), Monday, 12 January 2004 03:21 (twenty-two years ago)

some of my favourite synth sounds are housed within rush records. subdivisions, for one.

― Grell (Grell), Monday, 12 January 2004 08:01 (twenty-two years ago)

cheers for the info, people. i like Rush even more now i know that.

― search and delete, Monday, 12 January 2004 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Rush by a country mile.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 January 2004 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Rush has fascist lyrics?

― earlnash, Monday, 12 January 2004 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Here comes the obligatory Ayn Rand reference.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Rush is such a part of my childhood I cannot deny them....much better pop songwriters (and much less wanky) than people give them credit for....

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The Darkness -- love'em or hate'em -- are ultimately a novelty act ala the Banana Splits. Rush -- love'em or hate'em -- are a proper band.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: Earnest prog-geeks vs. Ironic hipsters

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

(speaking incredibly stereotypically of the fans, of course)

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

The lead singer of Mabel (shirtless guy pictured upthread) later joined White Lion, by the way.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

A good novelty act always beats a bad proper band.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, but rush are GREAT!!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

"Here comes the obligatory Ayn Rand reference."

Peart's early lyrics may be influenced by Ayn Rand, but I can't think of any lines that state any fascist undertones at all.

If they are there, point them out, I am curious.

― earlnash, Monday, 12 January 2004 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah Norman I'm not really talking about Rush cos I've only heard one thing ever by them, I was just asserting the principle.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

novelty acts and proper bands are apples and oranges. You can't really compare them.

It's like comparing Aqua to Kraftwerk. It can't be done and shouldn't be attempted.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

It can be done! Kraftwerk were better than Aqua but "Barbie Girl" is better than "The Model" - EASY!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:20 (twenty-two years ago)

:::sigh:::

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

"Doctor Jones" is better than "The Model" too but "Tour De France" is better than anything Aqua did.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Monday, 12 January 2004 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

but I can't think of any lines that state any fascist undertones at all

Facist is a bit far, but the Trees is basically an anti-affirmative action bit, and there is an old article on Rush that I read once on www.rocksbackpages.com where Peart came off as a Rush Limbaugh type creep-o...

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 12 January 2004 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

"The Trees" is anti-affirmative action? How?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 January 2004 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

There is unrest in the Forest
There is trouble with the trees
For the Maples want more sunligh
And the Oaks ignore their pleas

The trouble with the Maples
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the Oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light
But the Oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made
And they wonder why the Maples
Can't be happy in their shade?

There is trouble in the forest
And the creatures all have fled
As the Maples scream `Oppression!`
And the Oaks, just shake their heads

So the Maples formed a Union
And demanded equal rights
'The Oaks are just too greedy
We will make them give us light'
Now there's no more Oak oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet,
Axe,
And saw ...

― search and delete, Monday, 12 January 2004 18:31 (twenty-two years ago)

the last lines are key....neo-con all the way.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 12 January 2004 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Freewill also has the typical, "why don't these poor people quit complaining type stuff"

There are those who think that life
Has nothing left to chance
With a host of holy horrors
To direct our aimless dance
A planet of playthings
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
The stars aren’t aligned ---
Or the gods are malign
Blame is better to give than receive
You can choose a ready guide
In some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears
And kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that’s clear
I will choose free will
There are those who think that they’ve been dealt a losing hand
The cards were stacked against them ---
They weren’t born in lotus-land
All preordained
A prisoner in chains
A victim of venomous fate
Kicked in the face
You can’t pray for a place
In heaven’s unearthly estate
Each of us
A cell of awareness
Imperfect and incomplete
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt
That’s far too fleet...

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 12 January 2004 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

But Oak trees don't have heads!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 January 2004 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

actually i think there are some good points there. believing that everyone is capable of bettering themselves if they try, is more idealistic than fascist. i'd like to think there was no malice or disdain in their philosophies.

but hey.. i dunno.. maybe he was a raving Nazi, goose-stepping around the studio between over-dubs.

― search and delete, Monday, 12 January 2004 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not saying he was a facists (western conservatism /= facism)....but seriously he is pretty far-right....check out the interview....not a Nazi or anything like that, and also prob. alot more intelligent and thought-out than my posts give him credit for...

(By the way, I am a huge huge huge Rush fan, even though it's not really my cup of tea politcally....tI could say the same thing for Fugazi or Public Enemy as well).

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 12 January 2004 18:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't be bothered to register at rocksbackpages, but I remember reading the NME interview a few years ago in a *cough* Rush fanzine. I think it has to be read with the knowledge that the NME at the time was staffed largely by journalists who resembled Rik from The Young Ones, and who would routinely label people fascists if they disagreed with them politically. As a result Rush were pretty much blacklisted by the music press here in the UK for about a decade I think (I could be wrong about this though). Admittedly Peart did write some riduculous quasi-libertarian lyrics, but he grew out of it soon enough.

Is this thread still about The Darkness in any way then?

― udu wudu (udu wudu), Monday, 12 January 2004 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm just gonna pretend their songs are about spaceships.

― search and delete, Monday, 12 January 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

B-b-but hatchets, axes and saws cut down ALL trees! (At least, that's the way 8-year-old Dan interpreted the song; the trees were so busy fighting that they didn't notice the people running around cutting them down.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 January 2004 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I just found another reason to hate Rush. I didn't know it was possible.

"Those ~~niggers~~maples better stay in the ~~ghetto~~shade where they belong!"

― David Allen (David Allen), Monday, 12 January 2004 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Beside all that, I usually hate when a band has such thin lyrics anyway. There not very open to interpretation at all. Same reason I didn't like Zappa's lyrics.

― David Allen (David Allen), Monday, 12 January 2004 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, who says the oaks are the sympathetic figures in the song?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 January 2004 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

And one more thing. I hate to go off on a tangent, but someone posted a link to rocksbackpages. I didnt know anythign about it-- still don't, but I saw this on the site, in the review of Hey Ya.

"André 3000/OutKast: ‘Hey Ya!’, from The Love Below (Arista)
It should go without saying that OutKast’s André was the most deliciously interesting African-American artist of 2003 — an epicene black dandy, a polymorphous Prince for a rigidly macho and conformist age. Both his Love Below and Big Boi’s Speakerboxxx were rich with classics but I have to nominate this exuberant, endlessly hummable single."

Holy fucking shit! What is that site? Is it a joke?

― David Allen (David Allen), Monday, 12 January 2004 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

(I am trying to formulate an argument that runs along the lines of "Reading those lyrics in and of themselves as an endictment of affirmative action smacks of white privilege," but I don't think I can actually get it to fly.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 January 2004 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

go on... have a go

― search and delete, Monday, 12 January 2004 19:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Those lines are definitely conservative, but they could just as easily (and perhaps more likely) be classist as racist, no?

― David A. (Davant), Monday, 12 January 2004 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

How are those lines "definitely conservative"?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 January 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

As a result of the Maples having the temerity to "form a Union", the whole forest gets treated like "equals", in the form of hatchets and axes (ie/ nobody wins)! I read that as pretty anti-socialist, at least -- which isn't necessarily big-C conservative, admittedly, but is kind of reactionary and laissez faire. (And to be fair, I'm talking small-c anyway.)

― David A. (Davant), Monday, 12 January 2004 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

epicene black dandy

Well, at least we've got Andre 3000's first post-Outkast band name!

Re: Rush and Conservatism....if somebody with the ability to post the article from Rock's Backpages, it would be helpful (I can't afford it)....seriously Peart comes off at hysterically "Fox News" in this piece - and these are quotes which would be pretty explicit in meaning even if NME's writer was taking them out of context....

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 12 January 2004 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.nyu.edu/projects/sciabarra/essays/rush.htm

― Matt Boch (Matt Boch), Monday, 12 January 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

By definition, is a "novelty act" able to have lasting appeal? Critics of The Darkness keep pulling that card, rather than seeing and hearing the band's layered brilliance. When The Darkness puts out multiple excellent albums in the next few years, what will the argument be? That clever double entendres are just a "novelty"? Or that refreshingly straightforward lyrics are actually a "joke"? Come on, everyone wishes they'd written "Get Your Hands Off My Woman," then had the nerve to sing it like a little Nancy. It's perfect in every way.

― M Deeds, Monday, 12 January 2004 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

When The Darkness puts out multiple excellent albums in the next few years, what will the argument be?

I believe the word you meant to use was: "If".

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 January 2004 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually listened to some Rush last week, in honor of Mr. Zivojinovich's legal woes - the two-disc Chronicles set. I was most intrigued by the tracks from the late 80s albums I didn't remember all that well: Power Windows, Hold Your Fire, and Presto. They were really on to some kind of strange prog/pop fusion there. They integrated the synth textures quite well. A lot of those songs don't even feature guitar solos! Any "wankiness" or muso tendencies are present in the form of the compositions themselves and the general high level group interplay.

"Time Stands Still" is actually a really beautiful song, some really nice melodies. Maybe the most striking moment on the whole two-disc set is hearing it play after all the preceding sci-fi allegory stuff. Like, here's a reflective song that actually deals with real human emotions! Gosh there's even some actual femininity here (in the presence of Aimee Mann's backing vocals)!

I'm kind of curious to revisit some of those records. I remember Presto being pretty damn enjoyable when it came out, and "Show Don't Tell" rocks pretty damn hard.

― Broheems (diamond), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

You're adding temerity; it isn't in the narrator's voice.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, then: audacity ;-)

― David A. (Davant), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Broheems, Aimee Mann sings on a Rush song?

― David A. (Davant), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I think just the one though - insane, isn't it??

― Broheems (diamond), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Are the Maples supposed to represent Canada (i.e. maple leaf) and the Oaks are the USA? Although the last verse doesn't make much sense then so maybe not.

― udu wudu (udu wudu), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Broheems so damn OTM re: 80s period Rush (that's what I meant upthread when I said great pop songwriters but I didn't bother to specify)....I think I remember reading that Rush were huge Police fans when I was a kid (kinda makes sense when you think about it)....anyway, you're so right...after around Signals they are scarcely prog at all...much more of a really proficient, strange pop band....Also, Alex Lifeson's guitarwork become increasingly strange throughout - all very atmospheric, 80s-ish....not wanky or metally at all....I love Hold Your Fire, it's got alot of gems including Time Stands Still and (esp.) Force 10....also Power Windows is good....Presto was maybe the last really solid disc (of course I haven't heard anything since Counterparts)....I remember Roll the Bones attempt at rap (!? yes you read that right) being very very deeply embarrassing.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Oaks=English Canada
Maples=Quebec (from what I remember)

Comparing Rush with The Darkness makes almost no sense. Kind of like a microcosm of ILM.

― Bryan (Bryan), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Holy shit, Bryan! I should've thought of that (although I first heard Rush when I lived in England). Interesting that American Ilxors heard race, Brit Ilxors heard class, and all along it was that peculiarly Canadian Quebec thing.

And, yeah, back on topic, I don't really get the comparison, either. I'd pick Rush, but only because I've heard just one or two songs by the Darkness.

― David A. (Davant), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Aimee's even quite prominent in the video of Time Stand Still, she's the camera operator shooting the band as they (and she) bounce around the screen.

Rush videos, now there's a topic. Many of them (especially around Grace Under Pressure) are so poorly done that they make bargain basement Sci-Fi channel effects look convincing. Though Subdivisions does an impressive job of viscerally transporting me back to high school ...

― zaxxon25 (zaxxon25), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

insane, isn't it??

Sure is. Insane I think in the great ILM way that Bryan refers to.

― David A. (Davant), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

upbeat guitars and falsetto's are the common factor. it's not as stupid a comparison as sleeper and PE..

― searchanddelete, Monday, 12 January 2004 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Incidentally, the version of "The Trees" on Exit Stage Left, medlied between "Broon's Bane" and "Xanadu", is a fine, fine thing indeed!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

It's weird, I think "The Trees" is the one Rush song of (relative) note and fame I *haven't* heard -- except by way of a ridiculously hilarious parody/reference in an MST3K episode.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

While I had originally thought of "The Trees" as neoconservative, Dan's interpretation actually does seem to jive more with Rush's general earnest naive idealism. "Freewill" is more just anti-religion than anything. I really just think Peart was a more or less unsophisticated (and probably fairly young) thinker and writer who liked the heavy-handed insistence on individual liberty, self-expression, and reason in Rand. (And did they ever reference anything other than Anthem?) Especially considering how mushily bleeding-heart they became I can't even really see them voting any further right than Liberal or maybe a really soft PC candidate.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 03:58 (twenty-two years ago)

(What was the MST reference?)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 04:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Near the beginning of The Touch of Satan, the camera pans through the sun shining through some tree branches. Mike, in exaggerated Geddy-style vocals, suddenly sing/shouts, "But the trees can't help their feelings/If they like the way they're made," only to be swiftly told to be silent by Tom and Crow.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 04:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm liking the Darkness album more now. It's more like a tough chick new wave album than a pop metal album, anyway. It reminds me of Scandal and Benatar way more than Def Leppard and Queen.

― Arthur (Arthur), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 04:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Heh, I like that idea. Not enough for me to like them but that's a great angle I don't think anyone's suggested yet!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 04:18 (twenty-two years ago)

This reminds me of the "We're eating grass" thread. I absolutely loved Rush in high school. I had almost ALL there albums. This is about the time Roll The Bones came out (91-92).

But then someone gave me the first 4 Zeppelin albums to listen to, and I pretty much never listened to Rush again. As my musical tastes changed in college over the next few years (hip hop, indie, dance, etc), I eventually sold back EVERY Rush album I owned (gasp!). At the time, I was a little embarrassed for even owning them. (I might still have a copy of Moving Pictures somewhere).

Now, 10 years later, I wish I had them back. I even miss that "rap" on Roll the Bones!! (ok, maybe not)

Agree with what was said earlier. "Time Stand Still" was a great song. Also, "The Pass" on Presto and "Dreamline" on Roll the Bones (as far as their late 80s early 90s stuff goes).

― kickitcricket, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 07:02 (twenty-two years ago)

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