Musicians and/or groups that are so freakin' obviously the product of trustfunded nepotism...

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Starting with the worst first, and then working our way down...

― maria b (maria b), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Carly Simon, damn her!

― jody (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

...The Strokes?

― That famous guy who won a prize (nordicskilla), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Hank Jr. (not necessarily Hank III)

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Deadsy

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i first read maria's directions as:

Starting with the worst fist, and then working our way down...

in other words, ew.

― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Osmond boys

― Jim Janse, Monday, 12 January 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

THE BRAXTONS

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Destiny's Child (had to say it)

― donut bitch (donut), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Freeway

― That famous guy who won a prize (nordicskilla), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

WORST RAPPERS PUT ON BY THEIR MAN:

Flipmode Squad
Jacky Jasper
Northstar
Cilvaringz

― Le Coq (DarrenK), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

kula shakur

― search and delete, Monday, 12 January 2004 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

elasticaaaaaah

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

A.R.E. Weapons

― That famous guy who won a prize (nordicskilla), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

The Wallflowers.

― Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 12 January 2004 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Norah Jones

― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:03 (twenty-two years ago)

It's only a matter of time... Paris Hilton.

― maria b (maria b), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

that dog

― keith m (keithmcl), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

All Beatles children.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Hilton Sisters are the new Nelson.

― maria b (maria b), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Kim Gordon.

― maria b (maria b), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh God, how could I forget....

Rufus Wainwright!

― maria b (maria b), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

but he's the most talented one in the family

― keith m (keithmcl), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Talent or not... he's got that silver spoon-fed puffy custard jowls thing goin' on. Blech!

― maria b (maria b), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

True, but I still love him. Loudon can't be that loaded, can he?

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:12 (twenty-two years ago)

longwave

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha 'custard jowls', that's perfect!

Man, every time I see a pic of Rufus I just want to break his neck. And I don't really mind his music!

― Le Coq (DarrenK), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I have no problem with trustfunded nepotism if the music's good, really (which seems to be the case in almost all of these responses, as far as I'm concerned). I've heard plenty of godawful "poor" bands with tons of "street cred."

But I thought I'd chime in with this, if only to make Maria's nightmares come true:

MTV News 8/12/2003

Celebutant Paris Hilton is vying for a career as a pop star. The hotel heiress has been working on recording a dance pop album, which her producer Romeo Antonio describes as a cross between Jessica Simpson and Beyoncé, in terms of voice and style. Hilton has six songs in the can, including a midtempo ballad with the working title "Loneliness." As of yet, she has no label deal. ...

― Ben Boyer (Ben Boyer), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

A selling point when she's shopping her album to labels should be her proven ability to put together a video on a very low budget.

― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Pete Yorn

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Dino, Desi, and Billy! (Whom I've never heard.)

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Brassy.

― mike a, Monday, 12 January 2004 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Paris Hilton to Father: "But Daddy, I want an Oompa Loompa. I want an Oompa Loompa NOW!"

― maria b (maria b), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Carly Simon, Rufus Wainwright and Dhani Harrison. A Concert to Benefit Martha's Vineyard. 2004. And... erm... oh yeah. Directed by Sofia Coppola. :)

― maria b (maria b), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

i dunno about brassy - they recently gave interviews whining about how they all needed full time jobs just to keep the band going

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Paris Hilton to Father: "But Daddy, I want an Oompa Loompa. I want an Oompa Loompa NOW!"

"And I want it to spunk hot jizz into my dirty little whore-maw."

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

kelli osbourne
avril lavigne
tim mcgraw

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

"Put that on the next batch of spam, dad."

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

A selling point when she's shopping her album to labels should be her proven ability to put together a video on a very low budget.

I smell enhanced CD.

― Leee Majors (Leee), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Why Avril?

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Monday, 12 January 2004 23:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Ghostly International

― ruth, Monday, 12 January 2004 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Rooney
Phantom Planet
The Wallflowers

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever her name is, Lionel Richie's spawn who pals around with Paris Hilton, probably has a record in the pipeline, so I preemptively nominate her for this rogues' gallery.

Looking even further ahead, note to Elvis Costello and Diana Krall: please don't reproduce. Thanks, the management.

God help us if The Strokes have kids.

― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

every goddamned band in williamsburg

― , Tuesday, 13 January 2004 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

tim mcgraw

Doubtful, since Tim didn't even meet his father, baseball semi-great Tug McGraw until he was well into his career....apparently he didn't know that was his dad growing up....(I think based on what I remember from an interview...)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Dino, Desi, and Billy! (Whom I've never heard.)

My first LP was a Dino, Desi, and Billy one, it made me what I am today!

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 00:05 (twenty-two years ago)

tug mcgraw was a deadbeat dad. tim mcgraw found out when he was nine when he found his birth certificate.

― keith m (keithmcl), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Jonathan Fire*Eater? I've never heard them, though.

― Sean (Sean), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw Dino, Desi and Billy on the Ed Sullivan show (WNJN saturdays at 6 and 6:30 in the tri-state area) and they were awesome. Didn't Brian Wilson produce or write for them?

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 00:10 (twenty-two years ago)

That Dog featured Anna "Daughter of Lenny" Waronker and both Petra and Rachel "Daughters of Charlie" Haden! But they were really pretty good.

― Aaron A., Tuesday, 13 January 2004 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 110 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Dieter Meier of Yello comes from old Swiss money. That motherfucker created some original music.

― Dave Segal (Da ve Segal), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Brian Eno's real name is Brian Peter George St John le Baptiste de la Salle.

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

"Brian Eno is the "son of a postman and a Belgian immigrant".
John Cale was a poor Welsh boy and all VU originality is attributable to him.

Next.

-- (bi...), January 13th, 2004."

mm - how about those other dozen or so bands I listed? Or do they all suck because they're all rich white people?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

All of them are either not rich or not original. Mostly the former.

― , Tuesday, 13 January 2004 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Jandek's a contender

― , Tuesday, 13 January 2004 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

define "original".

I mean, c'mon, the BEATLES are not original?!? KRAFTWERK was not original? Phil Spector?? Methinks you are clinging to some seriously outdated concepts and standards...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

the Beatles weren't rich kids.

Kraftwerk's innovations weren't musical as much as conceptual.

Phil Spector was an orchestrator.

― , Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

compared to some hapless Cambodian peasant the Beatles certainly were rich kids. Certainly none of them were poor. Where are you placing "rich" on the scale here? Because anyone in the western world who's making a living is definitely rich compared to the poor of the rest of the world (or does the rest of the world only count when they're making "original" music for your consumption?) Nice dodge with Kraftwerk - how does one separate their concepts from their music, exactly? Seeing as how their music was the sole illustration/realization of their concepts? And Spector - being an orchestrator is somehow different from being in a band? Was he not responsible for the music? The guiding force behind it, writing it, directing it, voicing it, telling the performers what to do...? Do you admit that he was at least a) a rich white kid, who was b) directly responsible for creating "original" music?

Still waiting for your definition of "original", btw.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Spector's dad was a steelworker. He grew up in the Bronx.

― , Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Also I think it's rather half-assed to defend grand sweeping generalizations by making hair-splitting delineations (eg, "___ not REALLY rich" or "___ not REALLY a band" or what have you). Sort of puts the lie to your assertions, in that you've constructed an argument that you can't defend on its own terms, instead you've got to get into these tiny details to make it even seem valid...

I've read Spector's bio "He's a Rebel". He hardly grew up in poverty.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I like how blue-collar professions are automatically seen as "poor" regardless of how much money the person actually makes (my sister-in-law works for the auto industry and knows of at least two janitors who pull in $100K).

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)

well, bi's class delineations are largely arbitary and meaningless, since they don't seem to have anything to do with actual amounts of money/income, nor do they hew to the classical Marxist definitions of anybody who has to work for a living vs. the idle rich.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Shakey - it's called "trolling."

― schwantz, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm definitely talking about working class, not necessarily poor.

― , Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Who wants to buy Grand Royal?

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

what's trolling exactly? Am I doing that? I apologize if I am

― , Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:41 (twenty-two years ago)

alright then.

how many people who own the means of production have had an original musical idea?

― , Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

― schwantz, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

whatever, I give up. Live with your stupid boundaries already, it just means there will be that much less music for you to enjoy.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Terry Melcher (producer of Paul Revere & the Raiders, also son of Dinah Shore)

― Joseph McCombs, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 23:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Terry Melcher (producer of Paul Revere & the Raiders, also son of Dinah Shore)

Doris Day is Melcher's mother. (and Melcher is probably more famous these days for being the producer of The Byrds and the Beach Boys)

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 00:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Elvis- you're right, I'm a ditz. Thanks.

― Joseph McCombs, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

my this thread has gone places. as for the comment about all that is good about VU being Cale alone -- nice try, but no cigar. the VU, at least when Cale was in the band, is all about the friction between rock/pop and the avant-garde. Pickawick crashes into LaMonte Young (sic cuz im too lazy right now to look up the actually spelling).

― jack cole (jackcole), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

It seems by that definition that the gist of trolling is to make indefensible arguments or slander people gratuitously. Say I'm wrong but don't say I'm being disingenuous. I couldn't feel more strongly that music is in the hands of the wrong people today. And however tedious the finer details are I'm still making a worthy overall critique and yes, I believe I'm winning the argument! That was a joke. We're all winners.

Again, Terry Melcher was more of a conduit than an inventor of new things.

― , Wednesday, 14 January 2004 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah the VU is completely about friction. And that friction came from Cale. Who's more "original", Pickawick Records or LaMonte Young?

― , Wednesday, 14 January 2004 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

friction requires TWO OBJECTS. not just one (ie, Cale).

Also, originality is a red herring. Just like "influence". It's a meaningless concept.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 00:38 (twenty-two years ago)

it should also be note that i intentionally chose extreme examples of each of their pre-VU work to illustrate my point.

besides, "the ostrich" rocks.

― jack cole (jackcole), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 00:42 (twenty-two years ago)

on another note, it may be kind of late to point this out, but "rich, coddled white kids" =/ "people who own the means of production", so yr "argument" has been altered rather significantly.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 00:42 (twenty-two years ago)

But without Cale it woulda just been Pickwick records. Without Reed it woulda been, uh, LaMonte Youngish.

I don't care about influence at all. But originality always characterizes good music, although just because something is original doesn't mean it's good.

― , Wednesday, 14 January 2004 00:47 (twenty-two years ago)

But would you have loved the VU as much if everything had been Ostrich caliber?

And, Shakey, do we really need to talk about exactly what percentage of the owners of the means of production are rich white people?

― , Wednesday, 14 January 2004 00:50 (twenty-two years ago)

middle-class rockers who somehow managed to get at least somewhat avant-garde: lou reed, frank zappa, captain beefheart, (our own beloved) nick currie.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 00:52 (twenty-two years ago)

dood, take a logic 101 class. Owners of means of production are all rich white people, but not all rich white people own the means of production.

You cannot separate originality from influence, they're both complementary and equally useless. For example, if someone's been influenced by something than they're taking ideas from it - therefore they aren't being entirely original. You can't consider anyone original unless you free them from the web of influence, which is impossible since *everything* and *every artist* has precursors, influences, predecessors, etc. Nothing is cut from whole cloth.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

the saddest thing is that now im the side of defending pop in these shenanigans -- oh the irony.

― jack cole (jackcole), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I always knew you were a closet pop freak.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha ha, my point being --> "pop" (as in melody, structure, etc -- not chartpop) being just as good as the experimental, avant garde. i wouldnt want to exclusively listen to either.

― jack cole (jackcole), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 01:12 (twenty-two years ago)

why worry about pop vs. avant-garde when you can just decide to exclusively listen to records made by people who earned less than $_____ last year?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Jesus

Okay, Shakey, do we really need to talk about exactly what percentage of rich white people are the owners of the means of production?

I'm talking about gauging an artist's worth by how SUBSEQUENTLY influential they are--that's a bogus barometer that holds no interest for me.

GAUGING THEIR WORTH by how original they are is also bogus. But there will be some element of originality in all good music.

― , Wednesday, 14 January 2004 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

it's odd that I'm the one accused of being incendiary in this argument.

― , Wednesday, 14 January 2004 01:22 (twenty-two years ago)

b-b-but what IS originality then? It must have something to do with influences, since your position is that "rich coddled white kids" influences are somehow illegitimate - after all they were "bought for them" so that they could "take them out of context". Clearly you think there must be some CORRECT way to absorb and process your influences - but if that's the case then you have to reject your stupid and completely nebulous concept of "originality".

Likewise bullshit is your assertion that rich white people are all capitalists the means of production. What about the janitor making $50K in America? Technically that guy's a rich white bazillionaire compared to some hapless Jamaican sweatshop worker. Oh, but he's still considered "working class" (why?) Again, all these terms you're throwing around, the scale of comparison that you use, they don't MEAN ANYTHING.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 01:28 (twenty-two years ago)

god that post was a mess, my apologies, must... acquire... better...editing... skills...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)

but he's still considered "working class" (why?)

A little thing called "context"

― LondonLee (LondonLee), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

meaning what, that next to the Walkmen the janitor is working class? Doesn't that seem a little arbitrary?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

200 posts later--the push kings were great! not the last album though.

― keith m (keithmcl), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder if when Bijou Phillips farts... does it smell like cinnamon rolls?

― maria b (maria b), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

So musical creativity is as innate as farts?

― , Wednesday, 14 January 2004 04:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Kula Shaker

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 12:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Pere Ubu, Devo. Rich kids with nothing else to do but experiment with musical instruments.

― dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Erm... probably not. Farts are pretty darn innate.

― maria b (maria b), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Indie Rock

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

four months pass...

Townes Van Zandt and Gram Parsons both came from BIG money.

― shookout (shookout), Sunday, 13 June 2004 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

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