What is Robert Kilroy-Silks listening to right now?

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Maybe "Rockin' The Suburbs" by Ben Folds Five?

Stupid (Stupid), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

nah, I reckon Lonnie Donegan's "Rock Island Line" (all ironies intended)

robin carmody (robin carmody), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Bigmouth strikes again.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

You know, he did have a point when he said Arab regimes are repressive. Notice how a lot of those who protested against the Iraq war (and, yes, I protested too) and bands like ADF who scream racism to the highest of levels never, ever, ever seemed to be concerned with the innate racism in arranged marriages or the way women are treated under regimes in Iran/ Syria etc etc

Whilst his singling out of all Arabs was stupid and deserved to lose him his job, I hope that this comment does count for something and leads to more concern about how women are treated in the Arab world (not to mention gays as well).

C-Man (C-Man), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

However one may disapprove of arranged marriages or the way women are treated in Arab countries, this is hardly racism?

ArfArf, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Depends, I've started a thread on this before, but I think arranged marriages are racist - it's all about marrying someone of the same colour/ faith etc isn't it?

C-Man (C-Man), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

i think it's more to do with marrying someone the parents can 'trust' will be able to provide for/care for/love their offspring without what may be deemed 'un-necessary' potential conflicting factors such as being of a different race or religion - possibly 'common sense' in the minds of many conservative types who believe in this practice. i can envisage pros as well as cons - but obviously i don't believe anyone should be forced into doing something they don't want to do, or conditioned into believing it's the right thing to do (tho that's pretty tough to avoid and we are all victims of it to varying extents)

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

meanwhile Kilroy is probably listening to David bloody Gray

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh come on Steven, if some white family said to their daughter - "You can only marry a white Christian" after she brought home a black fellow there would be a massive storm. I can see it all over the news!

There's a double standard, arranged marriages should be stamped out. It's outdated and institutionalised racism.

Why can't we just marry who the hell we want, regardless of faith or skin colour? There's a radical idea. I'm not married and refuse to control who I fall for - be they white, black, Chinese or whomever.

C-Man (C-Man), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

as Asian Dub Foundation got mentioned.. i'd just like to say i saw them dj / mc in Hackney in 2000 and their MC was repeating "Kill The White Man" for about a minute at one point.

word.

searchanddelete, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

jocular answers in the spirit of the question:

the clash - white riot

searchanddelete, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I mean - I find ADF offensive. I think they're just another kind of racism.

C-Man (C-Man), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Arranged marriage doesn't have to mean forced marriage. Plenty of arranged marriages are entirely consensual. You are just buying into the usual cliche trotted out by the media.

Melly E (Melly E), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Hell, all people who aren't C-Man are a type of racism, yeah?

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:33 (twenty-two years ago)

No, no I'm not - but usually it's consentual because it's been hammered into the kid's head from day one that it's inevitable.

C-Man (C-Man), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick - all I know is this. I've never judged anyone on account of their skin/ religion or sexuality. I've had friends and have friends of all creeds and beliefs and encourage diversity. I don't see why so many work to limit it.

C-Man (C-Man), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:35 (twenty-two years ago)

No, no I'm not - but usually it's consentual because it's been hammered into the kid's head from day one that it's inevitable.

As has, in our society, the idea of romantic love being the basis for marriage.

N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh right, and it shouldn't be? Romance is great.

C-Man (C-Man), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Romance doesn't exist.

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

What. A. Load. Of. Poo.

You've just never had it.

C-Man (C-Man), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick otm. C-Man, if you are going to encourage diversity, and freedom of belief, then you have to concede that alot of people believe arranged marriages are the way to go and it is pretty insulting to suggest they only believe that because "because it's been hammered into the kid's head from day one that it's inevitable". Perhaps they, just like you, have actually formed their own opinions about it - suggesting they are all brainwashed and incapable of deciding for themselves, just because they decide differently from you is in itself the epitome of judging someone on their beliefs.

Melly E (Melly E), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Romance is great.

Yeah, I love it too. Doesn't seem to make for very stable relationships these days, though. I was merely pointing out that the idea of romance as the determinant of one's marital partner is a peculiar, reletively recent trend in human history. I can't probably escape it myself, but I'm not so arrogant as to deny that my upbringing has brought about this in me.

N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:43 (twenty-two years ago)

C-Man is the most insular individual I've ever come across. Anyone who disagrees is with him is labelled 'thick'. Are you the Ubermensch?

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude, arranged marriages are religiously institutional and just not good. How would you guys feel if you had to marry the first ever person you went out with?

I'd have hung myself by now. My first girlfriend was evil.

C-Man (C-Man), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

arranged marriages are religiously institutional

Dur.

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

All marriages. Fucking hell. Brain?

Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 14 January 2004 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

"Dude, arranged marriages are religiously institutional and just not good." - C-Man

yup, plenty of encouragement of diversity there, and no judgement on other people's creeds and beliefs at all.

Melly E (Melly E), Thursday, 15 January 2004 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, duh, just like I don't like it when religion tells you to cut your newborn's foreskin off you know? What? We should support everything religion says? Oh well, in that case take me back to the Victorian era so I can lynch a gay person...

C-Man (C-Man), Thursday, 15 January 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

You'd get arrested for doing that to the prime-minister.

omg, Thursday, 15 January 2004 03:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Getting back to the topic because I'm drunk and can't be bothered to read anything said above: "Killing An Arab".

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 15 January 2004 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

That's a film, isn't it?

omg, Thursday, 15 January 2004 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

No, it's The Cure.

LondonLee (LondonLee), Thursday, 15 January 2004 03:12 (twenty-two years ago)

"C-Man is the most insular individual I've ever come across. Anyone who disagrees is with him is labelled 'thick'. Are you the Ubermensch?
-- Nick Southall"

"All marriages. Fucking hell. Brain?
-- Nick Southall"


I just thought that was funny.

Stupid (Stupid), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:03 (twenty-two years ago)

joseph campbell to thread. arranged marriages allow for continued oppression of women. consensual? how does one consent to having their suitor selected for them other than by not resisting.

tom paulin said much worse, he's still employed.

keith m (keithmcl), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:10 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread is going to hell.

sym (shmuel), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Jon Wayne - "Mr. Egyptian"

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 January 2004 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick otm. C-Man, if you are going to encourage diversity, and freedom of belief, then you have to concede that alot of people believe arranged marriages are the way to go and it is pretty insulting to suggest they only believe that because "because it's been hammered into the kid's head from day one that it's inevitable". Perhaps they, just like you, have actually formed their own opinions about it - suggesting they are all brainwashed and incapable of deciding for themselves, just because they decide differently from you is in itself the epitome of judging someone on their beliefs

i'm sure some of them do, but surely you can't believe that all of them do? i will never forget the day i managed to stop my friend being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the back of a van by her family, who didn't approve of her western ways.

kilroy-silk's article was particularly offensive because it lumped all 'arabs' into one amorphous bundle and instantly categorised them as 'the other'. it then conflated the worst policies of various arab governments and organisations with the views of arabic people all over the world. he was wrong to write it, he should have been fired, and i'm sure he's at home (coming back to the question) listening to...err....
oh, dammit someone's already mentioned the cure!
how about 'suspicious minds' by elvis?

as we speak.

it is unfortunate to use robert kilroy-silk as a jumping-off point for this type of discussion. to object to the principle of arranged marriage is not to subscribe to some loathsome anti-arab creed.

hobart paving (hobart paving), Thursday, 15 January 2004 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't feel like debate once that Calum guy has trampled his muddy feet everywhere. Or before that, normally. So I just post some Anal Cunt lyrics instead.

"Even Though You're Culture Oppresses Women, You Sill Suck You Fucking Towelhead"

You fucking towelhead
You wear a towel on your head, you fucking towelhead
I hate women, you do too
But you have a mustache, you fucking towelhead

[Chorus:]
Towelhead, towelhead. Towelheaad, you fucking towelhead (x4)

It's cool they beat up women when they show their head
It's cool they beat up women when they show their face
Those cunts have to cover their fucking ankle
You think you're cool cuz' you ride a camel

[Chorus]

as Asian Dub Foundation got mentioned.. i'd just like to say i saw them dj / mc in Hackney in 2000 and their MC was repeating "Kill The White Man" for about a minute at one point.

Maybe he was a big NOFX fan.

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 15 January 2004 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

"Trust me to open my mouth now everybody knows
Trust me now I've let you down I'm a big mouth I suppose"
(Squeeze)

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 15 January 2004 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

(Daily) Express Yourself - Niggaz With Attitude

Jim Robinson (Original Miscreant), Thursday, 15 January 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Kilroy deserved the castigation he got. My point is that I hope we can also live in a society where we can state that religion has/ does and will always get things wrong.

C-Man (C-Man), Friday, 16 January 2004 07:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Hobart, as i said there is a difference between forced and arranged marriage. If someone is being forced to get married, that's a whole different kettle of fish in my view and completely objectionable obviously. But you dont have to be against all arranged marriage to be against forced ones. If an arranged marriage is consensual - and there are plenty that are - I don't see how it can be anything other than patronising to tell people they shouldn't be doing it just because it's not the way they do things here. However, my point is that views are so east/west polarised that people in the western world refuse to believe that anything anyone does which doesnt conform to western ideals cannot ever be something that someone has actually chosen for themselves, ergo they automatically assume all arranged marriages are forced and therefore bad.

Melly E (Melly E), Friday, 16 January 2004 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I should have qualified my last sentence by saying "some people in the western world". Apologies.

Melly E (Melly E), Saturday, 17 January 2004 00:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Kilroy deserved the castigation he got. My point is that I hope we can also live in a society where we can state that religion has/ does and will always get things wrong.


Dear Deirdre,

I have started seeing an older woman for sex. I told her I was single but now I’m scared she’s looking for commitment.

I’ve been married for ten years. I love my wife and we have no money worries but we live together like brother and sister.

Every time I touch her in bed she jumps like I’ve given her an electric shock. I then get fed up, turn over and fall asleep as I can’t be bothered any more.

She’s 34 and I’m 35. She can’t have children — which I don’t mind — but we haven’t made love for a year.

She has lost weight, although she was only a size eight. I’ve told her it’s unattractive but she doesn’t do anything about it.

We have good social lives but mostly go out separately with our mates as we don’t have the same interests. The trouble is I’m on the pull every time I go out.

That’s how I met this older woman. She’s 41 and a divorcee with grown-up children.

She has made no secret of wanting to have a full-on relationship with me as I told her I was unattached.

She’s a serious-minded woman and didn’t intend to have sex with me unless I gave her some real commitment.

But we got a bit drunk one night and went back to her place for sex and didn’t use a condom.

My lover says it’s not to happen again until I go to live with her — but what if she’s pregnant?

I’m not sure whether to tell my wife what I’ve done and jack in my marriage. We aren’t going anywhere anyway.

Since my wife went off sex we’ve tried to talk about it but she just gets upset. She’s told me she would understand if I wanted to have an affair.

At one point I realised I was being cruel, so we agreed to work harder at things.

I’ve tried to be more attentive but I just end up feeling rejected.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Saturday, 17 January 2004 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)


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