John Cale - TS: "Fragments.." versions -vs- Original versions

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I've been listening to Fragments of a Rainy Season so long, that I've gotten used to the arrangements on that record. And generally, I think most of the arrangements are done best on that record. But then I heard "Leaving it Up to You" last night (which I hadn't heard in a long time - I have "Guts" on vinyl & only recently started listening to the Island compilation on CD.) ..And I think I like the original version better.

Fragments tracklisting:
1. A Child's Christmas in Wales
2. Dying on the Vine
3. Cordoba
4. Darling I Need You
5. Paris 1919
6. Guts
7. Fear Is a Man's Best Friend
8. Ship of Fools
9. Leaving It up to You
10. The Cable Hogue
11. Thoughtless Kind
12. On a Wedding Anniversary
13. Lie Still, Sleep Becalmed
14. Do Not Go Gentle into That Good Night
15. Buffalo Ballet
16. Chinese Envoy
17. Style It Takes
18. Heartbreak Hotel
19. (I Keep A) Close Watch
20. Hallelujah

These are WAY better on the Fragments CD:
Cordoba
Ship of Fools
Thoughtless Kind
Lie Still, Sleep Becalmed
Do Not Go Gentle into That Good Night

Heartbreak Hotel - (sounds much more desperate in this version)

The original versions are better:
Paris 1919
Guts
Fear Is a Man's Best Friend
Leaving It up to You
Cable Hogue

.....

how aboutcha?

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 16 January 2004 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

The original of "Thoughtless Kind" is amazing. "Cable Hogue" and "Leaving It Up to You" are both much better on "Fragments". Anything else we can disagree on?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 January 2004 13:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Better:
Dying on the Vine
Cordoba
Leaving It up to You
Cable Hogue
On a Wedding Anniversary
Lie Still, Sleep Becalmed
Do Not Go Gentle into That Good Night

Worse:
Guts
Ship of Fools
Thoughtless Kind
Buffalo Ballet
Chinese Envoy
Style It Takes
(I Keep A) Close Watch

About as good:
A Child's Christmas in Wales
Darling I Need You
Paris 1919
Fear Is a Man's Best Friend
Heartbreak Hotel
Hallelujah

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 16 January 2004 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

1. Child's Christmas in Wales (FRAGMENTS)
2. Dying on the Vine (haven't heard the ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE version)
3. Cordoba (definitely FRAGMENTS)
4. Darling I Need You (Both are great, but FRAGMENTS by a hair)
5. Paris 1919 (FRAGMENTS)
6. Guts (SLOW DAZZLE)
7. Fear Is a Man's Best Friend (FRAGMENTS)
8. Ship of Fools (definitely FRAGMENTS, FEAR version is too delicate)
9. Leaving It up to You (FRAGMENTS)
10. Ballad of Cable Hogue (FRAGMENTS)
11. Thoughtless Kind (FRAGMENTS)
12. On a Wedding Anniversary (FRAGMENTS)
13. Lie Still, Sleep Becalmed (FRAGMENTS)
14. Do Not Go Gentle into That Good Night (FRAGMENTS)
15. Buffalo Ballet (FRAGMENTS)
16. Chinese Envoy (FRAGMENTS)
17. Style It Takes (SONGS FOR DRELLA)
18. Heartbreak Hotel (SLOW DAZZLE)
19. (I Keep A) Close Watch (FRAGMENTS; the HELEN OF TROY version is too grandiose with the orchestra; can't remember the MUSIC FOR A NEW SOCIETY version differs)
20. Hallelujah (FRAGMENTS; does this appear anywhere else?)

― Joe (Joe), Monday, 19 January 2004 01:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Fragments version is better: Dying On The Vine (by FAR), Heartbreak Hotel

Original version is better: Darling I Need You, Fear Is A Man's Best Friend, Ship Of Fools (way better singing), Cable Hogue

I chose those original songs specifically because I didn't like the Fragments vocals, I think the screamy thing is more suited to performing with a full band. The three off Words For The Dying are so different I hate to try and compare. The only other version of Hallelujah I've heard was in Shrek, it sounded just as great as the Fragments one.

― Poppy (poppy), Monday, 19 January 2004 03:42 (twenty-two years ago)

(I Keep A) Close Watch (FRAGMENTS; the HELEN OF TROY version is too grandiose with the orchestra; can't remember the MUSIC FOR A NEW SOCIETY version differs)

New Society version wins - just piano and vocals but, touch of genius, has bagpipes at end! Hooray!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 19 January 2004 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Joe, John Cale's version of "Hallelujah" first appeared on a Cohen tribute album.

― willem (willem), Monday, 19 January 2004 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I really wish he'd done a live album of the tour I saw him on, the Calester plus two young wizkids who could play any and every instrument backing him up. Same deal as Fragments but with just a little more richness. Lovely.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Monday, 19 January 2004 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

Some stupid questions; I've just been sent an e-mail by a company selling a DVD of Fragments.... "live Brussels 1992":
- is Fragments.... actually a live album? I know it's "unplugged" but I didn't think it was "live" as such
- if it is a live album, would this DVD be the actual gig it was recorded at?
- has this footage actually been released officially either now or ever?
- is it worth getting?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 26 February 2004 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I do believe it was one single performance.. and Brussels sounds right, so it may be the same gig.

But unless the DVD has additional songs, I wouldn't be too interested in looking at moving pictures of the CD. He's basically just sitting there performing. No costumes or dance numbers, so I'm not sure the visuals are worth a whole lot. I'd rather have a video of a 1970's performance.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 26 February 2004 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Has anyone here heard Comes Alive? I remember that Trouser Press said, "Cale should record all his albums this way." I haven't even heard it, but whatever.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 26 February 2004 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I have it - only listened to it a few times.. I don't remember it as being real compelling. I think Sabotage was better.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 26 February 2004 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I really like Sabotage — I'm hoping, though, that someone unearths more Even Cowgirls Get the Blues-era material at better fidelity. Supposedly, that period was even better. Plus, any song called "Fucking the Neighbor's Wife" seems at least somewhat worthy of a proper exhumation...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 26 February 2004 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

seven months pass...

Where does "On a Wedding Anniversary" come from? Can't track it down on AMG...

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Monday, 11 October 2004 07:51 (twenty-one years ago)

It's from Words for the Dying (1989). (haven't heard the album myself so I can't tell you anything about this version of "On a Wedding Anniversary")

― willem (willem), Monday, 11 October 2004 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

thanks!

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Monday, 11 October 2004 08:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Words for the Dying is an orchestral album, where he does pieces with lyrics by Dylan Thomas. Pretty worthwhile to hear, though for the pieces that overlap, I prefer the concise simplicity of the versions on Fragments ultimately.

― Joe (Joe), Monday, 11 October 2004 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

four years pass...

Okay, just kinda digging into this one. Haven't heard all of it yet, but most of it. I think that Fragments doesn't really make songs I don't already like any more interesting to me, but I think it does wonders for songs I already do like. That said, there are some songs here that aren't familiar to me, either, so I guess that's a separate category. I think I need to spend more time with this.

― To Float Away On A Lifelong Song (Bimble), Saturday, 11 April 2009 05:13 (seventeen years ago)

The State sketch "Fragments" was funny.

― billstevejim, Saturday, 11 April 2009 07:00 (seventeen years ago)

Don't know what you mean, sorry.

― Lucking Faptop (Bimble), Saturday, 11 April 2009 07:04 (seventeen years ago)

I do think the version of "On A Wedding Anniversary" here is far superior to the Words For The Dying version, though, which I wrote off as too much...orchestration for me to feel comfortable with.

― Lucking Faptop (Bimble), Saturday, 11 April 2009 08:22 (seventeen years ago)

Okay woah...I've just figured out that "Lie Still, Sleep Becalmed" is from the same album which I almost wrote the whole thing off...wow. This is a much better setting for these songs. And "Do Not Go Gentle..." too! Wow! What an improvement!

― Lucking Faptop (Bimble), Saturday, 11 April 2009 08:30 (seventeen years ago)

Too bad about that DVD though. (not the same show as the live CD, to answer a 5 year old question) I know someone who was at that Brussels show and they had the same impression you get from watching the DVD: he wanted to get out of here as soon as possible. Result: feels rushed and he just pummels all subtlety out of everything.

― StanM, Saturday, 11 April 2009 08:45 (seventeen years ago)

Can't believe I didn't post this upthread:

"Dying on the Vine" is not only revealed as a great song here -- it's revealed as one of Cale's best songs. Just amazing.

I love this whole thing to pieces. Yes, a few tracks don't "improve" upon the original. But several do -- and as a piece, it works wonderfully.

― Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 11 April 2009 12:46 (seventeen years ago)

five years pass...

being reminded this morning how amazing Fragments is. holy shit!

― tylerw, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 16:46 (eleven years ago)

Why on earth hasn't it been reissued and expanded?!

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 18:00 (eleven years ago)

two years pass...

Well hallelujah here it is: http://www.dominorecordco.com/uk/albums/26-10-16/fragments-of-a-rainy-season

― willem, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 19:12 (nine years ago)

not sure how i feel about the different running order, but i'm just so used to the original that it can't help but look wrong. seems like they should include the DVD w/ this? oh well -- I will probably get it. $26 for a 3LP is pretty decent in these wacky vinyl times.

as for the original post 12 years ago in this thread, strongly disagree that "ship of fools" is better on Fragments.

― tylerw, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 19:19 (nine years ago)

as for the original post 12 years ago in this thread, strongly disagree that "ship of fools" is better on Fragments.

LOL I was just about to (reiterate) my disagreement with the original poster over this.

― Millions of species Faye Dunaway (Tom D.), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 19:24 (nine years ago)

haha! the solo acoustic version is *good*, but the Fear version has slowly become one of my favorite Cale recordings.

― tylerw, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 19:30 (nine years ago)

one month passes...

The remaster sounds pretty amazing + somehow it feels better having the original playing order (with the three Dylan Thomas poems first). The crowd is maybe a tiny bit too loud, don't know. Bonus CD (outtakes & strings versions) is interesting (in a good way)

― StanM, Friday, 9 December 2016 14:07 (nine years ago)

yeah, i was a little skeptical about the shifted running order (which I assume is closer to the actual setlist of the show?), but it works. man, what a great album.

― tylerw, Friday, 9 December 2016 15:22 (nine years ago)

By the way, there was a free 4-track live EP with the French Les Inrockuptibles magazine in 1992, called More Fragments, with tracks and versions not on the album - this blog uploaded it: http://blog.fragmentsofcale.net/2007/05/checklist-live-albums.html (scroll down to the comments - first, there's a wrong link, but later on there's a good one)

info: https://www.discogs.com/John-Cale-More-Fragments/release/1833664

― StanM, Monday, 12 December 2016 16:46 (nine years ago)

the 3 LP version is out of stock :(

― Iago Galdston, Monday, 12 December 2016 17:10 (nine years ago)

How do you know? I can add it to my cart here and it doesn't say anything about not being in stock?
http://www.dominorecordco.com/uk/albums/26-10-16/fragments-of-a-rainy-season

― StanM, Monday, 12 December 2016 18:50 (nine years ago)

huh, I went to the Domino USA site
http://www.dominorecordco.us/usa/albums/01-11-16/fragments-of-a-rainy-season

― Iago Galdston, Monday, 12 December 2016 19:51 (nine years ago)

How the hell can the Domino lyrics booklet suddenly have "Sebastopol, INdianapolis" ? Did somebody manually type them and not pay attention?

― StanM, Saturday, 17 December 2016 08:57 (nine years ago)

Hey Stan, thanks for the link to "More Fragments". It's weird that none of those tracks showed up on the reissue - and they had plenty of space!

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 23 December 2016 22:18 (nine years ago)

one month passes...

how's the sound quality on the reissue? Steve Hoffman forumites are freaking out about loudness wars/brickwalling shenanigans but I haven't heard it myself so idk

― schrute dwyte (unregistered), Tuesday, 31 January 2017 18:45 (nine years ago)

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