Smashing Pumpkins - "Bury Me", classic or dud?

...about where there's that sudden drum break and the chugging guitar starts and the line "i love my sister so..." is completely and utterly classic. as is the rest of that song, but that moment is what seals it for me. and then when it crashes back into the chorus. and the way the song ends. yeah, that song is undeniably classic. :)

Corgan's still a damn child, though.

but it's a damn fine song. damn. fine. damn, why don't i have this with me at work today?!?!??!

No, he *used* to be a little boy, remember.

*dodges brickbats*

he's really an alter ego of Crispin Glover.

it says so right here, "despite all my rage, i am still just a rat in a cage"...

*gets coat and hides*

that whole album is what i listen to when i'm feelin blue.
not the song, the album.
actually, truth be told, that whole era of SP is one of the best-
Starla
Plume
Pissant
Slunk
Why Am I So Tired?

need i go on?

as far as the remaster goes- i have the caroline version and i've had the virgin version, too. sound quality's mintuely better on the remaster, but it barely matters.

screamo billy? the anger and frustration in his own singing, probably. plus he can make such cool ass sounds when he yells and it gets delayed!! uber trippy.

Haven't heard Gish in close to a decade but I never really connected with it the same way - is it time for a reevaluation?

I think that part of the appeal of Mellon Collie is that it's very obviously designed for teenagers to enjoy. I've read some interviews where Corgan talks about this, and how every emotion was exaggerated in the most teenage way possible. I think he was very successful - that album came out when I was 16, and it felt exactly right. It was my Favorite Record Ever for a solid year.

i do agree, MCIS came out right on time. i recall waiting at the local record shop at midnight just waiting to get it a day early. then, it was played nonstop until the summer of 96. at every party, at least 2 songs were played. at any school function, at least 1 song was played. it became a soundtrack to the end of my highschool career. then, they toured. i went and saw the next to last show with jimmy/jonathon, convinced that 'the rattler' (which was Silverfuck pushed into crazy tribal/metal insanity) was the sound of the future. commence implosion and almost instant irrelevance.

i recall actually getting into heated debates about the whole thing. those who defended corgan, and me, who totally blasted him for letting go of the 2nd biggest part of the SP sound. then Adore came out, and vindication was mine!!!!

machina was ok. machina 2 was absolutely amazing!!! i still listen to that and shake my head. Heavy Metal Machine version 2, the crazy fast version with better lyrics sends shivers down my spine...

The Gish tracks are where it's at.

I really love about half of the proper Machina album - "Try Try Try," "Age of Innocence," "Glass and the Ghost Children," "The Imploding Voice," "Heavy Metal Machine," "Wound," and "With Every Light." "The Everlasting Gaze" and "Stand Inside Your Love" are okay but nothing special, and every other song that I didn't mention is totally awful and some of the worst music Corgan's ever made. Sometimes I wish that one really great record could be made from the good songs from Machina and Adore - both of them are so uneven that it becomes easy to forget that there are great songs on them.

I sure hope that whatever Corgan does post-Zwan, it involves Jimmy, because he really needs that guy. They have a unique chemistry, and they complete each other.

Er? "I of the Mourning" is wondrous.

(I am a rabid fan to the point I would change nothing about Adore or either Machina, so take that under advisement.)

Eh, I've never liked "I Of The Mourning," but I will say this: it's a hell of a lot better than "The Crying Tree of Mercury" or "The Sacred + Profrane."

Not really, I would swap some songs on Adore w/ some demos and b-sides from that era, but it's a fine album nonetheless.
Now, Machina and Machina II... yeah, you could make a great album by picking the highlights from those sessions. As they are... meh. "Try Try Try" is perhaps the worst Pumpkins song EVER.

My Adore edit:

01 To Sheila
02 Ava Adore
03 Perfect
04 Daphne Descends
05 Once Upon A Time
06 Pug
07 Annie-Dog
08 Shame
09 Behold! The Night Mare
10 Let Me Give The World To You

A better version of Machina:

01 Glass Theme
02 Cash Car Star
03 Heavy Metal Machine
04 Try Try Try
05 The Imploding Voice
06 Glass + The Ghost Children
07 If There Is A God (piano version)
08 Here's To The Atom Bomb
09 Age Of Innocence
10 With Every Light

But he should have been! Siamese Dream benefits greatly from having less songs.

I'm not a fan of "Stand Inside Your Love," man. Nice title, mediocre song.

they were responsible for providing an awful lot of the soundtrack to my teenage years. the Chicago connection and various people in common/places worked also helped.

i still listen to some of it, and still think many of the songs are quite good. i just don't feel the connection i used to, and don't really listen to things in the same way.

but, as i tell myself with a lot of things these days, if you strip away all the outer mitigating bullshit, you've still got some really great songs underneath.

Siamese Dream is indeed as close to perfection as they ever got sonically, and i do enjoy it as an album. however, i do still like Gish better. and i'll still say the remaster sounds better to me, but that may also have to do with the fact that the original copy of the original version that i have is on an audiocassette that got played pretty much to death. i still think there's a difference, but that might also be slight overcriticism on my part due to having once been an audio engineering major. :)

as for favourites, many of my favourite songs have been B-sides or things included on compilations. the cover of Vic Chesnutt's "Sad Peter Pan" done with Red Red Meat is unbelievably gorgeous. also adore "Glynis," and "Drown" similarly.

also, "Set The Ray To Jerry" is unreasoningly gorgeous.

One of my favorite B-sides, and in fact I think the total amount of songs on the 1979 EP makes that the best 'short' release they ever did.

they were responsible for providing an awful lot of the soundtrack to my teenage years...i still listen to some of it, and still think many of the songs are quite good. i just don't feel the connection i used to, and don't really listen to things in the same way.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel now. Like some other things I really loved as a teenager, I haven't stopped liking it, but it no longer has a presence in my life.

ooh! and the cover of "Dancing in the Moonlight." speaking of gorgeousness. :)

but i definitely understand what you're saying, Ned. actually, to a degree, i can say i felt this as well---i'd also say they're why i started to play guitar. well, band-wise---really, my aunt is what did it. i was around her and her guitar-playing antics and her love of Led Zep and the Damned and Heart and Pat Benatar and all sorts of various metal staples. and her love of the Beatles. so it sort of came out of that, too---and yes, i did end up making tapes for her and getting her into the band as well---unsurprisingly, she really liked them. :)

01 To Sheila
02 Ava Adore
03 Perfect
04 Daphne Descends
05 Once Upon A Time
06 Pug
07 Annie-Dog
08 Shame
09 Behold! The Night Mare
10 Let Me Give The World To You

:o

probably not.

except, maybe, for your most favouritest band in the whole world, Warrant.

*ducks*

http://www.metal-sludge.com/JaniDrunk.jpg

SP DEFINITELy warrants discussion. more so than a few bands that people seem to spill seed over. *coughcoughDMBcoughcough*

seriously, i still won't listen to Adore. no jimmy, no me. that's when my deep seething of Billy began. you kick out half yr sound, you also throw away 1/2 yr audience. to which he said "fuck em, we'll get new fans". and they tried. and failed. granted they might've garnered a few more fans with Adore. people who loved Depech Mode and the like, but, overall you can almost pinpoint- to the day, just about- when it started to go wrong.

i still think that billy's first wife, chris fabian (the fabled!) had a lot to do with the songs earlier on. she might've been a veto power to counter act some of the mush he had going on. that said, Yelena Yemchuck (or whatever the fuck her name is) is almost the same way, in terms of song inspiration, but in the opposite way. she's the 'yes' woman. 'yeah, do more synthy stuff', 'yeah, take vocal lessons {THAT in and of itself was a terrible idea, billy can't croon like that, nor should he.}

i dunno. when i heard that jimmy was back, my friends and i almost shat ourselves! it was almost like hearing someone had come back from the dead. then machina came out, and god bless everyone who tried to like it, yr a trooper. i can't even play the thing through anymore. too many mediocre songs. strangely, i can now stand hearing the single off Adore, after hearing jimmy beef em up considerably.

zwan- they didn't even release their best songs!!!! ok, that's too harsh, MSotS/Jesus was a house destroyer, but, the rest was tepid and filler. WHERE DID SPILLED MILK GO??!!!? or RIVERVIEW!?
i'm almost glad zwan died quick.

you will never get another "Cherub Rawk" or another "Geek USA"...
and that makes me sad.

i DO think jimmy/billy should be together, forever. they're just too good to be seperate.

ahhh, memories and bootlegs is all we have.

they should've just changed names...
maybe zwan could've made Adore and i'd have been alright with it.
but, as an SP album, it's been the one that more people have tried to jam down my throat than any of the others.
odd, i know.
i feel bad for people that got into SP through that album.
they never got a follow-up. unless you count Machina. which STILL has a ton more guitar than Adore.

i dunno. maybe if somebody gave me Adore, i'd spin it, but as it stands, it's the least interesting of the pack(um, I'm not even looking at MAchina). hell, even corgan's stated (and i quote) 'it was a fluke'. i do love reading his bitter remarks around that time. Dross was a good tune. liked the Machina 2 version more than the Arising, which was pretty rockin as it was.

i do love the rumor of a re-recorded version of Adore with jimmy.
too bad it doesn't really exsist.

I don't! What a great starting point! Of course it was a fluke, that makes it even better!

Dan and I have talked about the 1998 tour highly -- he caught it, I missed it but based on the great Atlanta full show recording that's circulated Kenny Aronoff did some mighty fine work on standin. Would have been funnier if Bon Harris did it, in shaved head aggro industrial dwarf mode, though.

as for 'getting in thru Adore'- i'm sure those who did either felt really let down by the back catalog or felt like they came in on the 'off' album.

ya know, i still dug the Ransom Sndtrk stuff, as simple as it was, it had a great feel to it. and 'eye' was a pretty stand out Adore era track...i always forget that one. the break down at the end is so kewl!

I’m pretty sure Corgan and YY are no longer a couple, when this happened I’m not sure, though.

The song is just a pitch perfect amalgam of so many influences....so gorgeous, melancholy, intense....man, i get chills just thinking about it. I was a freshman in college when it was "released," and i was so lonely/depressed/homesick that i'd play that song over and over and over. It'd go through my head all day, and all i could think about during class was going back to my dorm room to play it loud as fuck on my headphones.

If you've never heard it, go find it. If you've heard it and don't like it, please just go back and take a listen. It sorta gets lost in the shuffle on the semi-flawed second Machina, but it is indeed wonderful.

Siamese Dream is definitely the closest the Pumpkins ever got to utter perfection. In fact I'd definitely put it in my top 5 albums of all time.

I agree with the few who said Adore is extremely underrated. It does not in any way deserve the hate it receives. Machina 1 on the other hand is a total dog, and I can't comprehend how such a thing happened - just combine the best songs from Machina 1 and 2 and you've got an excellent album. What happened?

yes. yes, it does. it's so "meh" it's hardly worth the breath it takes to say.

M1+2= yr totally right, but what mix of songs do you use? me, i use the 'leaner/meaner' sounding ones and sprinkle in some 'If There Is a Gawd', 'Speed Kills', etc. take away the crap that is the majority of M1. as to what happened- ask BC. i'm sure he knows...

Gish DOES sound little and tinny, but damned if i still don't love the sound in it! nostalgia? maybe...but still, Bury Me+Gish=utter classicx...

I'd never thought about this before, but it sort of makes sense to me. This record came out when I was 21 and didn't quite connect with me like Gish and Siamese Dream did when I was 17 and 19 respectively.

I do have very vivid memories of having to drive a van full of 13-16 year old kids to a summer camp. It was a ten hour drive, and these kids were quiet and awkward and totally didn't dig any of the punk rock and hip-hop I had in my CD case. The only thing that all of them wanted to listen to was Mellon Collie, which they would have been more than happy to listen to for the entire trip. over and over.

SHE WILL.... BURY ME

Yup.

otm

FUCKING CLASSIC!

Yup. The outro lick.

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ugh, sorry

CLASSIC