Kogan on David Banner

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This is the best take I've seen yet on my favorite artist these days. I'm really looking forward to the S&C of MTA2; I bet it's even stranger and more fascinating than the other one, because of all the weird back alley singing shit on this one. I wonder if the Air Force Ones remix will get the screw job? As is, it's amazing:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0404/kogan.php

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 03:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Very nice writing indeed. Banner's somebody I keep meaning to listen in for more than I have (ie, not much).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I was going to buy the first one except the second was released unbeknownst to me THE SAME DAY I was going to get it. Uncertain which to pick up, I just skipped it. Then I saw a video or two and wasn't quite moved enough to grab either since.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 03:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Both are worth the investment ... they're very different. One's back woods empathy ... the other is just flat-out emo & drum machines.

― Chris O., Wednesday, 28 January 2004 03:23 (twenty-two years ago)

emo & drum machines

I'm getting number two.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 03:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Number one's better overall.

― Chris O., Wednesday, 28 January 2004 03:25 (twenty-two years ago)

the C&S version of the first is the way to go

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 03:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Absolutely. S&C was my #1 on P&J.

― Chris O., Wednesday, 28 January 2004 03:27 (twenty-two years ago)

It's U&K that everyone votes S&C in their P&J.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 05:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, I'm kidding. I found it a little underwhelming, but I appear to be in a tiny minority.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 05:20 (twenty-two years ago)

David Banner wrote me a very nice email once after I'd praised his beats on the Crooked Lettaz album in some usenet group several years ago. He probably reads ilxor....

― Distended Belly, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 05:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Hi David. Please try harder.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 06:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, it takes a lot of hard work to sell that psycho, lost sociological cause persona.

― Chris O., Wednesday, 28 January 2004 07:30 (twenty-two years ago)

The cursing intro to MTA1 was the best example of what Kogan's talking about, I think, and actually goes a bit further to explaining the tourettes thing, and sorta erm "ironizing" it (i.e. suspending it in self-aware critique).

Also ppl. need to talk more about how many of the tracks on MTA2 jack bits from MTA1.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 10:23 (twenty-two years ago)

That's the new album's chief flaw ... it does recycle and takes pieces of the first album and make new, duller songs out of them. But the highlights are fuckin' amazing.

― Chris O., Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

s&c of the new one due this week
*GROANS* don't tell me I've got four David Banner albums to catch up on now

― Jeff W (zebedee), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris (or anybody else, for that matter) -- What do you think the highlights of the new album are? I love the Christmas song (which still sounds way better to me on *Crunk and Disorderly* though), and one other track I forget right now, but believe it or not, so far, I haven't been able to play the damn thing all the way through. (And the s&c version of Missisippi was my number three album last year, and the regular Missisippi would've been in my top 20 or so, I'm sure...) (And actually, I think some of the stuff regurgitated from the first one might be some of the BETTER stuff on the new one!)

― chuck, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Right now, Chuck, I'm digging "My Lord," the "Like a Pimp" remix (the one reworking that truly works), " "Crank it Up," "Talk to Me" and especially the "Air Force Ones" remix -- a candidate for the best reworking of a song ever! Okay, so maybe not ever, but it's pretty damn good. "The Christmas Song" is really funny, but a little too goof for me to take seriously, I guess.

Interesting thing is the traditional crunk stuff is much better on this one than on the origial -- I never much cared for the beginning of Missisippi until the S&C cleaned them up. This one's not as heavy on the soul and acoustic stuff, obviosuly.

― Chris O., Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

But isn't the soul and acoustic stuff (and goofy stuff) what David Banner is BEST at? (okay, not counting the fucked up Dixieland stuff or whatever...) The Xmas song is one of the most beautiful things he's done. He NEEDS his goofiness to balance out his seriousness, doesn't he? The first album kept threatening to get weighted down by the leadenndess of his voice and of his persona; I really think this one might BE too weighted down. Maybe I'm wrong, though. I hope so. (Also, I have no idea what you mean by "traditional" crunk - honest! Crunk is something that I've never thought of being trad at all! And it's such a multifaceted genre that I'm not sure what "generic crunk" would sound like, if such a thing were ever to exist...)

― chuck, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:54 (twenty-two years ago)

You people need to dig up the screwed version of "Sippin on Syrup".

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

by trad crunk, i mean the more clubby stuff as a classification -- the clap drums and weird keyboard. On the first record, he mixed that with this extraordinary sense of harmony and acoustics and sense of real Mississippi tradition. Here, he's more keeping with mainstream Southern rap, even on the profound stuff. The exceptions are "My Lord," the Xmas thing and that "Streets got love for me" shtick. But even so, it still works. Kinda interesting -- he mentions somehwere on there he's living in Atlanta. That's probably having an influence on him.

― Chris O., Thursday, 29 January 2004 03:34 (twenty-two years ago)

the air force ones remix is totally fantastic, and i keep getting "pretty pink" stuck in my head tho its lots like the first album. as a whole its like he's running out of hooks though.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 29 January 2004 03:55 (twenty-two years ago)

What do you all get out of Screwed and Chopped? I was amazed at how little I liked it -- it felt so formulaic and drab to me. Maybe I need to give it a relisten, but my first time through was like "so this is what all the hype is about? sheesh!"

― Clarke B., Thursday, 29 January 2004 04:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not trying to antagonize with my question, either, more just looking for a way in.

― Clarke B., Thursday, 29 January 2004 04:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I wouldn't quite say "formulaic and drab", but I get where you're coming from.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 29 January 2004 04:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I look at the S&C thing -- from within and in terms of the discourse of criticism, mind you -- as the logical conclusion of the "see, mainstream hip-hop can be avant-garde, too!" line of thought. Obviously, this is not what the producers who screw and chop are specifically aiming for, and perhaps it doesn't even cross their minds -- and, hell, on top of that, I doubt most of the folks who enjoy it (even on ILM!) get their rocks off on the avant-garde side of it. Maybe I just don't like the way it sounds, and because I consider myself pretty well acquainted with the avant-garde, I feel somehow trumped by it. "Clarke, your boundaries have been revealed, you smallmind!" Very shallow, I realize. Still, it just sounds so turgid and lifeless. And yes I realize that's the point of it, but there's an emptiness at its core that bothers me -- not an emptiness that intrigues me (don't get me wrong, I like plenty of turgid stuff with no emotional core, but the stuff I like awes me, it's emptiness seems magical and somehow profound), but one that jades me. A geezer at age 23, I lament: "So this is what passes as sonically provocative and adventurous these days!" Help me feel better about this, and help me to stop feeling like one of the 'ardkore haters of the early 90s ("b-b-but all they did was speed up the vocals a lot to make them sound like helium-huffers!").

― Clarke B., Thursday, 29 January 2004 04:46 (twenty-two years ago)

i think that's a strange way to look at it.

on the old screw tapes where he runs a beat for twenty minutes, does every trick to it, everything, slows it way down (screw did stuff way slower than michael watts, who did both banner albums and the couple other nationwide screwed albums, and every other houston dj does now), it goes on and on and it sounds funny and stuff but, like, it's not offputting at all. do you know what i mean? most of the old screw stuff is all big posse cuts. they sound like rooms full of people. and when he screws a song, he clumsily sings along with it, emphasizes good lines. it's all very friendly and open, not upsetting and experimental for no reason. same thing with new houston tapes. the djs talk a lot and everyone is very friendly.

when it's just a screwed album by someone else (and someone outside of the houston scene), i guess it could seem kind of like a pointless thing. but, like, i think that, like, it's made for the southern market that fell in love with the sound of it and it wasn't all cold experimentalism when they fell in love with it. stuff sounds better slow, so you want to hear stuff slowed down. if you're buying the s+c banner album without having heard any screw stuff and just having a sort of casual knowledge of the scene ("oooh!! it's for black people who drink cough syrup!"), i get how you would feel that way and i get why ilm people get so excited by the same thing (the seeming experimentalism instead of the exact opposite thing that people who love screw want, the familiarity of it.)

― cloverlandthug, Thursday, 29 January 2004 05:00 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think it sounds "experimental" at all. it sounds different, but that's just because things happen to music when you speed it up or slow it down (certain sounds get emphasized or de-emphasized, things appear or disappear).

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 29 January 2004 05:46 (twenty-two years ago)

(by "different" i mean different from the original banner album. and i just happen to like the way this version sounds better than the original. and i am more than willing to admit it could very well be a one off for me, and i am a complete tourist here.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 29 January 2004 05:47 (twenty-two years ago)

this Screwed and Chopped thing is confusing. as someone who wants to buy a David Banner album, do I get the original or the S&C version? Some people seem to prefer the S&C version, and others can't get into it.

How does one approach this?

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 29 January 2004 06:08 (twenty-two years ago)

they're both fairly inexpensive, and different enough to justify it. the basic rule of thumb is that the faster tracks don't work so well s&c, while the s&c makes the slow burn ones slower and more burning.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 29 January 2004 06:12 (twenty-two years ago)

OTM

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 29 January 2004 06:14 (twenty-two years ago)

which really just depends on yr tastes: whether you want club bangers or semi-sludgy (but often gorgeous) slow stuff. really i wish there was some way to combine them, because shit like "fuck em" doesnt work at all s&c but was one of my faves on the original.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 29 January 2004 06:19 (twenty-two years ago)

If they were combined I think I'd be buying it tomorrow, as it stands I'll prob never get anything by him

― Silly Sailor (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 29 January 2004 06:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess it's the vocals I don't like so much on the slowed versions -- the sludgy sounds are really cool, and some of the beats are great at those tempos. The vocals, however, are a big stumbling block for me.

― Clarke B., Thursday, 29 January 2004 06:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i had a violin teacher as a kid, a tiny little tightly-wound woman who said, 'when i play viola, i can feel my blood pressure going down,' which is more or less what i get out of mta:s&c, this immediate physical effect. tourism, yeah of course (i feel that way abt nearly everything i hear, in degrees, i'm from nowhere and have done nothing, nothing is 'mine'). s&c creates (enforces?) an analogue of the drug effect, complete, beguiling, lots of depth. plus, the programming still sounds somehow light on its feet and elastic going at a crawl.

xpost aw i like the slow fuck 'em! those claps! get up and try to dance to it, it might change yr mind

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 29 January 2004 06:35 (twenty-two years ago)

get up...and dance?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 29 January 2004 06:38 (twenty-two years ago)

make sure you have a mirror tho, you don't want to do it wrong

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 29 January 2004 06:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Tell me of your dancing, Usul.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 January 2004 06:40 (twenty-two years ago)

S&C sounds like my cup of tea. Thanks.

― Debito (Debito), Thursday, 29 January 2004 06:41 (twenty-two years ago)

the s&c really does exude a "contact high" as it were, especially the later/more exhausted you listen to it.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 29 January 2004 06:43 (twenty-two years ago)

>>What do you all get out of Screwed and Chopped? <<

Does the bottom of these three reviews help (if you make any sense at all out of it?):

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0348/eddy.php

― chuck, Thursday, 29 January 2004 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

The vocals are what I like best about it (only heard a couple of tracks) - slowed down draggy vocals are gorgeous generally.

I'm guessing I'll end up preferring the original though.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 29 January 2004 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Full speed "Fuck 'Em" shakes the whole bag of leaves, screwed-&-slowed floats the bag high in the air, and you notice the chords are the Grateful Dead's "Mountains of the Moon." Both essential.

(At least half of Banner is borderline unlistenable, but the other half is worth the effort.)

Chuck, best tracks on Baptized, in order of preference: "Crank It Up" (giant jello-blobs move like jumping beans, car horns go "toot-toot," awesomely silly), "We Ride Them Caddies" (quicksand, tendrils, stream of terror), "Mama's House" ("ominous," tough vocals sound unintentionally like Stepin Fetchit; I look forward to the Hampton the Hampster remix), "The Christmas Song" (already discussed), "Air Force Ones - The Remix" (deft-toed Nelly smoothly sidesteps the croaks and bellows), "Ooh Ahh" (remake of Abbot & Costello Meet Frankenstein; guest rapper - uncredited - attempts "Who's On First" in pig latin, forgets dialog, unleashes stream of swear words in its place), "Pop That" (re-works previous LP's "Choose Me" to somewhat disappointing effect, as the orig's clumsily winning teen-poppisms are here made "dirty").

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

By the way, the review didn't even try to capture what I like most about the guy (the sound), instead stuck to what I knew how to write about (contradictions, persona, adjectives containing the suffix "ass"). Generic Kogan.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 29 January 2004 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

can you try capture that (the sound) in here, frank?

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 30 January 2004 02:39 (twenty-two years ago)

eleven years pass...

Too many Bowie threads running right now, I'm taking my nostalgia and going home

I was going to buy the first one except the second was released unbeknownst to me THE SAME DAY I was going to get it. Uncertain which to pick up, I just skipped it. Then I saw a video or two and wasn't quite moved enough to grab either since.
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 03:21 (11 years ago) Permalink

^^very real post

― regular ass terrestrial radio (bernard snowy), Friday, 15 January 2016 11:56 (ten years ago)

I'm actually just about to listen to part 2 for the first time though
so this nostalgia is more "people on ILM were really into him, I was not"

― regular ass terrestrial radio (bernard snowy), Friday, 15 January 2016 11:59 (ten years ago)

there are some funny (older) rap opinions on these boards

― rap is dad (it's a boy!), Friday, 15 January 2016 23:56 (ten years ago)

lol I didn't even notice when I revived this thread how quickly it derailed & became "RFI: Screwed & Chopped"

― regular ass terrestrial radio (bernard snowy), Sunday, 17 January 2016 05:26 (ten years ago)

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