Naked Maja - C/D? (Market Research)

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The way the discussion seems to be going at the moment:

a) Naked Maja - gets the facts right but apparently bores everyone to tears. 1974.

b) Rest of blogosphere - opinions thrown at the internet dartboard, not necessarily based on fact, but done with "passion" and "emotion" which everyone apparently loves. 1977.

Question being: is my blog turning into a grumpy old fart's blog and am I living in the past even pretending to keep it going? Should I just shuffle off to King's Reach Tower/the dustiest regions of the Bodleian and be content with that?

(re. the old fart/punk equation: all I can say is that I would much rather listen to Tusk than Give 'Em Enough Rope)

Should I have had the courage of my original convictions and stopped blogging when I stopped CoM?

Honest answers please; I can take it like a man...

Phoebe Dinsmore, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 13:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Should I just shuffle off to King's Reach Tower/the dustiest regions of the Bodleian and be content with that?

See you there, brah.

Erm, something like the 1985 list would do better in book form for the likes of me (that's prolly most people) who somehow CAN waste their days here, but can't do heavy sustained reading. This is about blog-reading habits, and I've personally lost the stamina, since I got a proper job.

Also: was Live Aid really conservative: or, is it conservative to do these things without government support? I would have thought not: I mean, the international brigades in Spain weren't exactly 'conservative,' yeah?

Quibbles. In conclusion, I'd hit it and quit it (ie do it for money).


Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I disagreed with a lot in the 1985 piece but I'm glad you wrote it. Someone has to do things like that. And you have my undying love for writing about "Oh Lori" a while ago.

LondonLee (LondonLee), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I would like to know the difference between "facts" and "opinions" here.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

carry on with blog, do whatever you want - maybe shorter updates - instead of big weekly blockbusters

Also, march onto King's Reach Tower with Lester, and overthrow the Allan "Americana" Jones and obvious 60s/70s rock canon regime.

DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i apologise for being mean to you marcello. i got a bit carried away. i will answer this honestly when i get the chance, hopefully today.
one thing though
don't bundle all the blogosphere together please. you're not the only person with a blog who knows what they're talking about. reynolds for example can justifiably claim to be a worldwide authority on his subject. and i, beleive it or not, know something about some of the things i talk about.

'''''''', Wednesday, 28 January 2004 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

So do I, so do lots of people, and for fuck's sake stop aping a woman

Silly Sailor (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 14:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh I LIKE yr writing btw, but yr weird as fuck attitude to the internet WEIRDS ME THE FUCK OUT.

Silly Sailor (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

On the '85 piece, calling Arrow's Long Time "tuneless soca" was the last straw for me....

pheNAM (pheNAM), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Perhaps it is time to let the blogging go, now that you have arrived and become a serious writer. As you say, your own blog is very different to all the other blogs, and for a serious writer, there is always the danger of selling yourself short, by slumming it. Blogging is but a stepping stone to bigger things perhaps

Harriet Swanscombe, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

marcello?

ha ha.

errr. i don't read blogs. or much music press. if any. if its fun. do it. it has nothing to do with 'being a serious music writer (whatever can that mean) (dredges up images of academia rock'n'roll 101).

doomified, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

That is what he is best at

Harriet Swanscombe, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

blogs put you more on a limb. especially if people read it. i mean, i think, you should look at the blog as a 'creative area' where you can have good fun...improve ... test theories .. its good. and look where the blog has gotten you - it was the blog that did it - not the uncut writing. the blog gives you discipline and naked reaction. perhaps you need not involve yerself with the reaction - people want to hear mariah sing not talk! ha ha!

doomified, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

who isnt a grumpy fuck?

and 'serious writers' keep blogs! in fact i'm having that done up as a t-shirt slogan.

doomified, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

It's interesting and informative, but, quite simply, stuff like the 85 piece is just awesome and scary in it's size and scope. I haven't the time to plough through it; the way I use the net lends itself to me favouring shorter pieces that I can read at work. Longer stuff I still much prefer on paper (I can't get an armchair near enough the monitor to relax and soak summat in how I'd like!). But I'm a modern kid with an eroded sense of concentration.

Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

marcello, he is some oblique advice - y'know when jazz players shake up each others nerves and confidence - and then the constant jibber and jabber destroy the timing - y'know y'know??? that's not so far from writing.

doomies, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Re. Naked Maja: I am shallow and enjoy the listy bits most.

It's not really about Naked Maja, this question, though - it's about the blogosphere. I think it's far less competitive than you seem to imply, and it's not like it's something you have to engage with either. Everybody's trying to write the blog they want to read, but for most of us that isn't ALL we want to read. In a lot of ways your stuff is more like Glenn MacDonald's than any other web writer I can think of - and his standalone, link-free format still gets a lot of loyal readers.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i think you brits are fucking batshit when it comes to the internet diaries.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

While I think everybody (including me) still wants you to do these 1985 style pieces, I think you should give some thought as to the layout of your website. Probably best to keep short paragraph length pieces to your blog and place essay length pieces to their own easily identifiable section (and possibly broken up into smaller chapters).

X
X
Xpost

Jedmond, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

not competitive only meta-hyper-critical.

doomies, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom & Jess otm.

Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Weaknesses:
1) You seem to lack even a rudimentary sense of self-awareness.
2) The pomposity and self-regard often reach epic proportions.
3) You allow crabbiness and mean-spiritedness to spill over into your writing far too regularly. This would be forgivable if you didn’t try to dress it up as objective criticism.
4) Long-winded. Most ideas can be expressed in one sentence. Some of your longer posts can be as boring as watching fifteen frames of amateur snooker on a black and white TV.
5) There are patches of purple prose which make me cringe with embarrassment. Lyricism is not your natural mode of expression.
6) You have a tendency to draw facetious analogies to support weak arguments.
7) Entirely humourless and heavy-handed.
8) An inability to engage with modern music on its own terms. Again this wouldn’t be a problem if you didn’t insist on covering it. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to read what you have to say about the Neptunes for example.

Strengths.
1) I admire the seriousness of intent. I certainly don’t agree with people who say ‘wah, it’s only a blog, they’re allowed to be stupid, lazy and badly written.’ Sure, they’re allowed to be, but don’t expect anyone to read it if it is. You realised the blog can be a vehicle for serious writing. I don’t have any time whatsoever for people who say it shouldn’t be.
2) You really can write. You use language in a very precise, careful, respectful way and I admire that. (analogies excepted)
3) You have a fine ear and an ability to translate what you hear into words. I genuinely do think the Marvin Gaye piece was a tour de force. There you really lived up to your own press. Close listening, confident, precise (not pedantic) writing.
4) The way you admit your personality, your emotions, personal history etc into the writing. There’s a good balance struck between objectivity and subjectivity. I have no respect for writers who perpetually hide behind style, who lack the courage of their convictions, who attempt to erase all elements of the human from their work.
5) Your feel for structure. It’s not easy getting such long essays to hang together and it’s to your credit that they flow as well as they do and remain as tightly focussed as they do, deathly boring or not. You clearly have impressive powers of concentration and a rigorous intellect.
6) Research and getting the facts right. It’s indicative of a respect for the subject.

luke''''', Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with all the others on this thread, saying how good marcello's writing is. I think you have outgrown this format now, Bigger and better things! You are one of the big boys now!

Harriet Swanscombe, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with Luke.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you're blog is great, Marcello/Phoebe - definitely one of the best music-related blogs out there. If I could make a comment, it's that your focus is often very UK-centric, and you often seem to presuppose a familiarity with many UK acts on the part of your readers, which I for one don't have. So many of your references go right over my head. I guess that's not really a criticism, just an observation. But definitely your blog ranks in the top tier, and it would be a major blow to my Internet reading habits if you were to give it up.

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)


i think you brits are fucking batshit when it comes to the internet diaries.

Looking at it as a Belgian: You're both *kuh-razee*.

It's funny when people say *outgrown* as though he used to be less a writer (before he got paid). He was always good. Paying/Being in print doesn't change that. And in saying that I wonder why Simon R (and various other journalists) started writing? Might it be because they don't have an editor/someone looking over his/her shoulder pointing the way. That said, I prefer shorter pieces, a screen /= a page. It not that I dislike long-windedness, I just don't like it on a scren, I much rather read a long article in a magazine. A blog is your playfield so do what YOU want with it.

nathalie (nathalie), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I too think your blog is great.

Jim Janse, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 16:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Your strengths are the ability to yoke unexpected or seemingly disparate ideas together and find meaning in the connections between those things. I think ony KPunk did this as well, but he is blogging less and less too. Your other strength is drawing out very deep emotional responses to things, you look past the surface. I was often genuinely moved by CoM, not just because of the way you wrote about your personal life and the tragedies surrounding that, but simply because your write about how deeply the best music can affect you. Your weaknesses are Long windedness ( i wont read any of those MEGA-POSTS), tetchiness and your inclination to be needlessly contrary or downright rude, though this is more evident on ILM that in your blog

I say keep on blogging just cos i like reading it.

jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I was thinking about this a bit more - I think I said something similar to the below on ILM once but it was very ill-timed. Anyway - not sure if it's a strength or a weakness but it's a trait I see in your writing so here goes -

You seem to like to exhaust a record, to explore it so thoroughly that your word has to be the final word. It's hard to imagine the Naked Maja returning to a subject. There's something exhilarating about that sometimes because it's always interesting to see someone tussle with a topic so intensely, but I also wonder if there's too much self-imposed pressure to be Definitive. Speaking entirely personally I prefer to read criticism that drops hints about how to listen/what to listen for, that suggests thoughts rather than completes them.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom OTM.

Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I can only express great admiration for "The Naked Maja" and I don't feel it is boring/worthy in any way; that it is 'humourless' seems an entirely subjective opinion. I must say there were a few occasions in reading the epic 1985 piece (which was *wonderful*... such scope & I loved the whole flow of it) that very much amused me. Marcello (Phoebe? Gosh, on the Lynsey de Paul thread I didn't cotton on! ;-)) writes on a level that only a few other music writers can match; genuine wit, precise knowledge and yet a willingness to widen the brief of music writing. I love all such instances of working in other areas, such as television with the Starr/Abbot links, and the reflection on post-WW2 British comedy in a piece in October IIRC. (i don't see enough music criticism in general that connects with other artforms where relevant) There's also very moving sociological insight - the reflections around Jennifer Rush's "Power of Love" - as well as the rightly-praised personal sense that always comes through.

So, unabashedly CLASSIC, in my humble opinion. :)
I'd be happy if it did continue, even on just an occasional basis... like Tom E. I admit I do especially like the lists, as they have a real surveying sweep about them, and shed light on stuff I just wouldn't get to read about otherwise, in music writing. A 1969 piece sounds tantalising; a year close to as great and distinct as 1982, I sense...
Of course, it's all up to the writer as to whether he wants to continue; I think it's clear from these answers that there is a willing and appreciative audience. I don't necessarily think that the blog format becomes entirely devalued once one gets a foothold in print, as MC deservedly is getting.

Tom May (Tom May), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm extremely regretful of my short-temperedness towards other bloggers of late. I offer no excuses for this - only sincere and profound apologies. I have no wish to turn into the Peter Sellers whom Roger Lewis describes in his biography.

Something has happened to me in recent weeks - something pretty terrible - which has unduly influenced my state of mind. I don't feel the need to burden ILx with this particular problem, but if anyone wants to email me I'll talk about it with them in confidence.

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i agree with luke.

it'd be easy for me to completely write you off, and there are lots of things about your writing that i don't like (the longwindedness, the reviewing an album track by track in order exhaustively). but there are times where you do get it right, make me think about a record in a way i'd never thought about before. i don't think you'll ever be a writer i really like, but there is potential there.

i'd like to see you write more about jazz/improv etc and less about "modern music", for what it's worth.

toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't engaged with the new blog like I did with CoM, mostly bcz I haven't had the time for ANY blog reading lately so i can't offer an opinion one way or the other but from my experience its yr writing on jazz/improv and the classical avant garde as well as early to mid 80s pop (haven't read the '85 piece yet) that I enjoyed most.

You have my best wishes, as always.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Likewise; best wishes from me, in all spheres.
c.f. disputes with bloggers; I trust people are willing to cut you some slack; your intentions are not in doubt overall. From all I gather, I do not think you (and very few could really, as he was a quite a one-off) seriously could become like Sellers was... (or at least was, according to Lewis ;))

Tom May (Tom May), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

round round round we go.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I do intend to up the jazz/improv content of the blog quite considerably - I've started writing a thing on Mingus in response to Brian Morton's not-very-good Primer in this month's Wire, and I also want to do things on various labels - ECM, Incus, Ogun, FMP, Black Saint etc. - sort of album-by-album guides, but I'll be doing them in instalments, not great big 1985-type monoliths which I agree might put off casual readers. Certainly Gail is quite keen for me to give the blog this kind of accent - and it's still the music I feel most comfortable writing about, probably because jazz/improv is the music I knew first (in my life), and therefore know best.

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

But you do love pop and I hope you still keep writing about it, even if you might be 'wrong' about a record its no big deal.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't have any terribly exciting insight to offer, but still...

i sometimes go along with the "I'd read anything by my favourite writers, even if they wrote about furniture" line, but the truth is i don't really like reading about music that doesn't matter to me (life is too short and all), and I love reading people like Reynolds, Finney, Ewing, Harvell etc because they write about stuff that interests me AND they write well.

like Church Of Me, i read Naked Maja only occassionally coz Marcello your music interest and mine differ greatly. i have nil interest in jazz, for starters. still, when the twain meet i enjoy reading - the 03 rundown was a blast, and last year's entry on Joe Meek not only made me get "The Alchemist Of Pop" (thx!) but gave me precious insight into the man's life and work and his surrounding context. still haven't found the time to check out the 85 piece, but i will.

basically - keep blogging. even when you sometimes veer off into the grumpy old fart teritorry, you're more read-worthy than most of the grumpy old farts around.

Mind Taker, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i love the blogworld but time is getting tiny for me. also i hate to read from a monitor. and i loved CoM dearly, and so is with NM. the writing is so long and so well reseached that my solution for reading is to print it on paper, then read on a chair with a cup ot tea and so my eyes doesn'ache too much.
I would love to see "church of me" printed as a book, even selection, rearranged or else (and with an index!). There is a remote possibility?

ciao da francesco

francesco brunetti, Friday, 30 January 2004 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Not a remote possibility; CoM the book comes out on Verso (UK & US) in September, complete with index, discography, bibliography, etc., which I am sure will be an immense relief to monitor readers with excessive eye strain. No plans to publish anything in NM at the moment; let's see how the first book does.

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 30 January 2004 07:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Forgive the fanboy gushing, but I have derived immense value from CoM & NM - and never more so than with the hugely enjoyable & thought-provoking 1985 piece (to which I could - but almost certainly won't - write another 30k words in reply). So there. Now please oblige me by writing another 30k words on every year from 1962 to 2003. (Except 1979; I'd like 60k words on 1979.) On my desk by Monday, please.

mike t-diva, Friday, 30 January 2004 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

hahah, i did start a 1962 piece somewhere on ilm last year but never quite got round to finishing it. the next year i'm doing, though, is 1969. in the meantime there are other things about which i need to post - arthur russell, mingus, early art of noise ('cos i've a feeling i was a bit hard on ztt in my 1985 piece) and a revision of my CoM piece on F Mac and "Tusk" (so there's a tiny piece of 1979 there).

i would pay serious money to have troubled diva in book form!

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 30 January 2004 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Can I find this 1962 piece anywhere? That's the year I was born and, coincidentally, I'm doing a mix CD with defined categories and one of which is a song from the year you were born.

LondonLee (LondonLee), Friday, 30 January 2004 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually it was on ILE but here's the thread in question - scroll down a little to find my contributions.

"Telstar" seemed to me the logical conclusion to "1962" - thereafter it all looks as if 1963 started four months early, though I do intend to flesh out the later entries in more detail at some stage.

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 30 January 2004 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Arthur Russell ain't too good though. Could you exclude him?

Jimmy the Saint (Jimmy the Saint), Friday, 30 January 2004 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

nope.

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 30 January 2004 16:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Why?

His 'new' one is like a bad Talking Heads album. I think he should be exclude. It's too 'obvious'.

Jimmy the Saint (Jimmy the Saint), Friday, 30 January 2004 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

agreed, russell should really just retire or something

mark p (Mark P), Friday, 30 January 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I've just heard the new one. Was not keen. What early stuff should I investigate? Sorry for bringing this one off-track. Marcello? Can you help?

Jimmy the Saint (Jimmy the Saint), Friday, 30 January 2004 16:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Which new one? There are two of them - the Soul Jazz comp (which I assume is the one you've heard) and the upcoming "Calling Out Of Context" which is just out-of-any-world. You should try and hear it, you'd be surprised.

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 30 January 2004 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

"Calling Out Of Context" - is that the one on Rough Trade? If so - was not keen. I kept taking it off and putting on the Trees and Greg Parks.

Jimmy the Saint (Jimmy the Saint), Friday, 30 January 2004 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i enjoy your blog, please don't stop doing it. i'm afraid i don't have anything more insightful to say than that.

i'm struggling to hear the greatness of 'calling out of context' too...

a, Friday, 30 January 2004 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i will try to explicate its greatness on my blog if i ever get the time to do so.

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 30 January 2004 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Write about British Folk Music from the 1970s. I need a good guide. BEcause I am addicted to The Tress at the moment.

Jimmy the Saint (Jimmy the Saint), Friday, 30 January 2004 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

i will eventually but not right now. robin might be your man for that sort of thing.

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 30 January 2004 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

The Dirty Vicar's mate Mark knows his stuff in that area too - start a thread on it and people might be lured out of the woodwork!

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 30 January 2004 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Cheers, Marcello. "Telstar" it is I think, seems suitably new-frontier-ish to commemorate my entrance into the world.

LondonLee (LondonLee), Friday, 30 January 2004 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

"CoM the book comes out on Verso (UK & US) in September, complete with index, discography, bibliography, etc., "

that's great news!! it's a bit early but please let us know in the future on NM when the CoM book it's nearly to be printed.


about Arthur Russell: boys are you kidding? bad talking heads? for what i have listened until now Russell is there with Sun Ra, Aphex, Fela, Ash Ra Tempel, Moroder, Abba, Barret and a few others in the godlike section...

ciao da francesco

francesco brunetti, Saturday, 31 January 2004 00:39 (twenty-two years ago)

looking foreward to the church of me book,it'll be much easier to deal with on paper...
haven't read that much of the new blog,cause i haven't really been keeping up with blogs so much in general,although i mean to catch up soon...
i'd really like to see you writing about mingus

robin (robin), Saturday, 31 January 2004 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i really like pretty much everything else i've heard by arthur russell i'm just not feeling this new one at all.

a, Saturday, 31 January 2004 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)


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