The Most "Advanced" Musician is ...

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Lou Reed, according to Chuck Klosterman, in an article from the newest issue of Esquire.
"Advancement" is described as a "cultural condition in which an advanced individual -- a true genius" -- creates a piece of art that 99 percent of the population perceives to be bad. However, this is not because the work itself is flawed; this is because most consumers are not advanced."
Lou Reed's song "The Original Wrapper," where he raps about Louis Farrakhan, AIDS and waffles, is his single most advanced moment, according to Klosterman.
Also advanced: David Byrne's cover of Whitney Houston's "I Wanna Dance with Somebody (Who Loves Me)"; and the Bowie-Jagger duet on "Dancing in the Streets."
Dylan only "flirts" with advancement, although his appearance in a Victoria's Secret commercial may be his most advanced moment ever.
Discuss.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Saturday, 12 June 2004 10:53 (twenty-two years ago)

My favorite quote in the article is from Jason Hartley, who founded "The School of Advancement" in 1990 along with Britt Bergman.
"I find Sting unlistenable. But I know that Sting is advanced. He must be super-advanced, and I just don't understand him."

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Saturday, 12 June 2004 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder whether consumers really do think of 'the advanced' as 'bad'? I know that there are some kinds of music -- Morton Feldman, for instance -- which I think are probably good, but feel I will never really be sufficiently advanced, intellectually or spiritually, to appreciate. In other words, I 'know my place'. It's not that Morton Feldman is bad, just that he's 'too good for the likes of me'. I acknowledge the (controversial) idea that music consumers can be judged in the same way that music itself can, and I locate myself somewhere on a spectrum, with some music 'below' me, some at 'just about my level', and some 'way ahead'. I don't find it necessary to trash what's 'ahead' (after all, I may grow into it one day), although I may well trash what's 'behind' (especially if I left it behind in a previous developmental stage). And I don't have any problem with the idea of 'the advanced' in and of itself, though I will certain argue with people over what music to put in that category. (Lou Reed no, because I listened to Lou aged 12 and he made more sense then than he does now. Sting... you're kidding!)

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 12 June 2004 11:29 (twenty-two years ago)

"Advancement" is described as a "cultural condition in which an advanced individual -- a true genius" -- creates a piece of art that 99 percent of the population perceives to be bad.**

isn't this just an apologia for the benefit of artists who *aren't* good anymore? shouldn't the artist be judged according to the quality of their output?

i don't believe in geniuses; i find it a cop out to privilege artists on a trans-/super-human level. i *do* believe in "works of genius," though.

― andrew l. r. (allocryptic), Saturday, 12 June 2004 11:47 (twenty-two years ago)

'Most record collections contain only two kinds of album: albums you like and albums you feel you ought to like. The latter have sat on your shelf since the day you bought them, taunting your shallow taste every time you reach for something less difficult. They are often by Captain Beefheart, or Sun Ra, or Faust. You bought them because you read somewhere that they were seminal and groundbreaking or because they came recommended by Lester Bangs or Kurt Cobain, or some other semi-mythic avatar of musical taste with ears apparently made of Teflon. Like CD equivalents of A Brief History of Time, you keep them in the risible belief that, one day soon, you'll put your head down, take a run at them, and somehow emerge from the other side a vastly improved human being.

There are artists who have founded long careers purely on making music that people feel they ought to like (in the case of dub reggae, which seems to consist entirely of legendary albums that sound exactly the same as each other, there's a whole genre).'

Alexis Petridis reviews PJ Harvey

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 12 June 2004 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

or else you keep those obscure albums around to impress those "less advanced" than you.

feh.

― andrew l. r. (allocryptic), Saturday, 12 June 2004 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Or, you keep them around to try to hide the fact that you may not be as advanced as you want/pretend to be or as those around you seem to be. And also trying to con others of equal or greater advancement into believing you too belong. Maybe that's just me.

― Charlie Rose (Charlie Rose), Saturday, 12 June 2004 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

For the record, I think if you read the article you'll see that Klosterman had his tongue planted firmly in cheek. At least I think so.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

In a way that's just as tedious as most of his other writing. SUCCESS.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Bowie-Jagger "Dancing in the Streets" is "advanced"??? He's got to be taking the piss there.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 12 June 2004 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Sting is advanced because he likes jazz

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 12 June 2004 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

say what you want

http://photoshop.superdownloads.net/uploads/jaggerwhoa.jpg

about the song

http://photoshop.superdownloads.net/uploads/bowieleopardskin.jpg

but the video

http://photoshop.superdownloads.net/uploads/bowieandjagger.jpg

is clearly advanced

― alan banana (alan_banana), Saturday, 12 June 2004 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

"Sting is advanced because he likes jazz "

hahaha, OTM. that does seem to be some people's idea of "advanced".

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 12 June 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

> ... you'll see that Klosterman had his tongue planted firmly in cheek. At least I think so.

I'm not familiar with his work, but I gather that he's somehow made a career out of writing egregiously irritating and self-aggrandizing pieces such as this. A blogger I used to read once described them as "Klosterfucks".

― Palomino (Palomino), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, please. Everybody knows the most advanced musicians ever are VON LMO.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Momus, you HAVE to see feldman performed - not just on CD - and it will all make sense. it did with me.

― jed_ (jed), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

THE GREAT KAT RULES ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Saturday, 12 June 2004 19:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Captain Beefheart, or Sun Ra,

Oh phooey on you, Alexis Petridis. I've listened to "Trout Mask Replica" and "Cosmic Tones For Mental Therapy" since I was 14. No dust on those.
I sold off my PJ Harvey CDs years ago. I don't see the correlation I never found her the least bit "difficult", just boring.

I do have a copy of A Brief History of Time sitting on my shelf that I haven't read yet, haha.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 12 June 2004 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

And Faust are really catchy a lot of the time. Rainy Day Sunshine Girl, Sad Skinhead, heck even Why Dont You Eat Carrots in it's own way.

― David Allen (David Allen), Saturday, 12 June 2004 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude, a brief history of time is LIGHT READING U CORNY LIBERAL ARTS FUCKS.

Goedel Escher Bach would make the point a lot more (although it isn't really that challenging for me anymore -- I read about COMPUTATIONAL POLITICAL SCIENCE now)

― Jon in R'lyeh (ex machina), Saturday, 12 June 2004 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

http://dxssi.homestead.com/files/__Weird_Al___Yankovic.jpg

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Sunday, 13 June 2004 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

FWIW: i have finished A Brief History of Time, but I don't own Trout Mask Replica.

WHICH IS MORE SURPRISING?

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Sunday, 13 June 2004 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

http://gorehole.org/mpls/faction/wolf_eyes.gif

― Jon in R'lyeh (ex machina), Sunday, 13 June 2004 00:09 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.gosamgo.com/flyer/flyer3.gif

― Jon in R'lyeh (ex machina), Sunday, 13 June 2004 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

http://zeni.free.fr/musique/pics/noise1.jpg

― Jon in R'lyeh (ex machina), Sunday, 13 June 2004 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

"Sting is advanced"

I am glad that we have all come to the same conclusion.
Now you may all return to listening to those musical novices and amateurs that you cherish and continue in your praising of musical mediocrity.

― bahtology, Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I believe you've found the art of self-parody!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 June 2004 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

John Cage's last composition "Silence due to Death" is still being performed eleven years ten months and one day after commencement, and shows no sign of ending anytime soon

― Patrick Kinghorn, Sunday, 13 June 2004 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

(yes you may call it a decomposition)

― Patrick Kinghorn, Sunday, 13 June 2004 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm more experimentaller than y'all.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 13 June 2004 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought the piece was pretty funny actually. Agree with Ned that Klosterman is a one trick pony, and not much of a critic, but this was a decently amusing piece. It's not really the biting satire I gather it was meant to be, but it still works for me as a piece of humorous culture writing. Like a lot of what he does, it runs out of steam pretty quickly, but I think the basic idea is funny.

I think what grates most about Klosterman is that he gets pieces like this published in big magazines. His stuff seems too half-baked to me to merit such widespread publication; I think I would find it funnier if I just read it on a website somewhere (which, in this case, I did, so maybe that's why I didn't hate it).

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

http://www.thesongcorporation.com/klosterman-advancement2.htm

full text

― no tech! (ex machina), Tuesday, 12 July 2005 01:42 (twenty years ago)

http://advancedtheory.blogspot.com/

― no tech! (ex machina), Tuesday, 12 July 2005 02:03 (twenty years ago)

― Jon, remind me again why you haven't drowned in your own vomit (ex machina), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 03:40 (twenty years ago)

What could be more advanced than THE FUTURE?

http://prometheus.frii.com/~gnat/frii/bela/gallery/riverfront/images/futch5.gif

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 03:43 (twenty years ago)

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