TS: ELO and Wire

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My roommate and I just got in an argument about ELO vs. Wire. He says that Wire had a far greater cultural impact than ELO. I say no fucking way. I like them equally - and the Wire albums of the 70s (Chairs, 154 and Pink Flag) are among their greatest accomplishments. But vs. ELO? ELO's still on the radio, ELO's still in jukeboxes and Wire's on the ipod of a bunch of educated 20something musicsnobs. Thoughts?

― x Jeremy (Atila the Honeybun), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I laugh out loud every time ELO is mentioned.
But I guess their songs are better than Hank Williams JR's solo stuff.

― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Not that I think Wire would have done a better job on Zanadu.

― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe Wire should've taken The Tubes' place in the movie.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

ELO inspired Boredoms; you win. Now... ELO vs. Mekons......

― 0r4l R0b3rt5 (ex machina), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Wire's on the ipod of a bunch of educated 20something musicsnobs

Err...try 30something.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah. educated X0something musicsnobs is meant as a funny kind of compliment.

― x Jeremy (Atila the Honeybun), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuck, I'm 21 and Wire is one of my favorite bands!

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not sure how much ELO impacted on any culture other than Jetta ads or something, causing a spike in sales for Out of the Blue on $1 vinyl, but Wire was an innovator and probably inspired much more on a lower level.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow!
I sound educated!
And younger!
And have an ipod!

― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess it depends on how you quantify "cultural impact". I mean -- yes, ELO turn up on the radio, in commercials and on movie soundtracks more often than Wire, but how many contemporary artists cite ELO as an influence versus the amont of those that cite Wire?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

BTW I hear that Huey Lewis is still on the radio.

― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Kansas vs. Radio Birdman

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Which song is more likely to have completely turned someone's whole perception of music around:

"Mr. Blue Sky" or "12XU"?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

All the bands with spaceships and lipsynkers and fiddles
cite ELO as an influence!

― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:53 (twenty-two years ago)

>>>>>>>>>Lou Reed wins, from totally out of nowhere.

― x Jeremy (Atila the Honeybun), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Does loureed have an ipod?

― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

it's shaped like a banana, but it's also a dildo.

― x Jeremy (Atila the Honeybun), Thursday, 17 June 2004 01:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Wire is overrated by girls with choppy haircuts who aspire to be artists and spend their time posting pictures of themselves looking good on myspace

― 0r4l R0b3rt5 (ex machina), Thursday, 17 June 2004 02:00 (twenty-two years ago)

that part is true!!

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 17 June 2004 02:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Which Wire member replaced Roy Orbinson in the Trivial Wallburgers?

― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 17 June 2004 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Harry Knowles.

― x Jeremy (Atila the Honeybun), Thursday, 17 June 2004 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

The Electric Light Orchestra has had a much larger cultural impact than Wire. Wire has been more popular with music critics, and bands started by music critics. This is not a diss of Wire's music; but come on...out of 10,000 randomly picked people, which band's songs are more likely to be known?

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 17 June 2004 02:08 (twenty-two years ago)

are we talking influence or overall familiarity?

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 17 June 2004 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Influence in the broadest sense. Which, as I meant it, is Universal Influence. Influence not just to the music-savvy, I mean to say.

― x Jeremy (Atila the Honeybun), Thursday, 17 June 2004 02:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Coach Garrison is right about ELO.

Now if the question was which band is better, Wire wins.

― jack cole (jackcole), Thursday, 17 June 2004 02:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn right they do.

"Influence in the broadest sense. Which, as I meant it, is Universal Influence. Influence not just to the music-savvy, I mean to say."

well if your talking sheer economics, ELO wins.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 17 June 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

As time goes on surely Wire's influence will outpace ELO's (asuming their's is larger now).

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Thursday, 17 June 2004 03:23 (twenty-two years ago)

uhh, I hope ELO destroys wire.

besides, wire is just an elastica rip off

― 0r4l R0b3rt5 (ex machina), Thursday, 17 June 2004 03:59 (twenty-two years ago)

they are both great, you are all fools.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 June 2004 04:07 (twenty-two years ago)

hey, i like all the elo songs i might hear on the radio.

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Thursday, 17 June 2004 04:36 (twenty-two years ago)

don't bring me down, BRRUUUUUCE!

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 June 2004 04:38 (twenty-two years ago)

the lyric is actually "groos"

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 17 June 2004 04:40 (twenty-two years ago)

haha!

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 17 June 2004 04:41 (twenty-two years ago)

God I hate that song.

― Lo Boob Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 17 June 2004 04:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Er, I should put that into perspective by saying I like just about everything else, even parts of Balance of Power.

― Lo Boob Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Thursday, 17 June 2004 04:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I like imagining that it's BRRRRUUUUUUCE, pedantgax!

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 June 2004 04:56 (twenty-two years ago)

HOW WAS THE GAME?!?!?!? HOW ON EARTH DID YOU MEET UP WITH DR. MORBS!?!?!?!??!?! I"M SOO JEALOUS, DID YOU GET MY MSG?!?!?!?!?

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 17 June 2004 05:02 (twenty-two years ago)

dude he offered me the ticket. If you called me, I didn't get the message, I can't get my voicemail messages yet. Mets were horrendous.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 June 2004 05:03 (twenty-two years ago)

WHAT ON EARTH IS HE LIKE?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 17 June 2004 05:04 (twenty-two years ago)

VERY NICE!

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 17 June 2004 05:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I BET!!! I AM JEALOUS!!! >:-O

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 17 June 2004 05:24 (twenty-two years ago)

15 years and 4 months ago I woulda said Wire, easily. I'd just bought "Pink Flag" and was quite infatuated with it. Guess what: Just a few months later, I was already sick of the damn thing! I've always had a touch of ADD; but even so, I can't think of another LP that wore out its welcome so quickly. And now it does nothing for me, and I never liked "154" at all, and so there's my disenchantment. But I'm sure glad that Wire inspired the Minutemen and (to an extent) Steve Albini, and Mudhoney even quoted "Lowdown" on their first LP, so Wire had the greater impact. But I'd rather hear "Mr. Blue Sky" or "Xanadu".

(If it's any consolation, I'd much rather hear Wire's originals than REM's and Minor Threat's covers!)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Thursday, 17 June 2004 06:25 (twenty-two years ago)

well .. as i was reading this thread Snooze by Pet popped up on my playlist - the sweet strummed guitars/synths and the vocoder chorus all reminiscent of ELO's Time album period . yup the ELO influence is indeed strong in 2004.
and i aint complaining. today, that is. tomorrow i will back onto the Wire tip.
fickle f*ck that i am.

― mark e (mark e), Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Myonga. If you haven't got "Chairs Missing", you have to. That's the one; Pink Flag is definitely a short stayer, 154 I do like, but "Chairs Missing" is the one.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I bought Pink Flag in 1977 and I'm still not even remotely sick of it!

"Influence in the broadest sense. Which, as I meant it, is Universal Influence. Influence not just to the music-savvy, I mean to say."

Hmmmm. Doesn't being an influence to "the music savvy" mean that it's more likely that your influence will be fertile and ultimately be disseminated further (albeit in a somewhat diluted form)?

Who has more influence? A band that may have been heard playing in the background by 10,000 people while they were driving the car / at work / doing the housework; or a band that's listened to intently by 100 people, all of whom go off and form bands, all of which are listened to intently by 100 more people, all of whom go off and form bands....

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I listen to ELO more than Wire these days.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:46 (twenty-two years ago)

It depends entirely on your own interpretation of cultural impact.

Yes, my mum and most of the people I'm sitting with 20ft of at the moment are more likely to have heard of ELO but, then, they're also more likely to have heard of the Lighthouse Family.

If you're talking cultural impact in terms of bums-on-seats, then clearly it ELO. In terms of worthwhile cultural impact, meaningful influence, I'm saying Wire every time.

― coco, Thursday, 17 June 2004 08:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess the point is, how many bands are actually influenced by the ELO but mention The Beatles instead, or Roy Wood is they want to pass as connoiseurs?

And how many are influenced by The Stranglers and mention The Wire instead?

― Diego Valladolid (dvalladt), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Who has more influence? A band that may have been heard playing in the background by 10,000 people while they were driving the car / at work / doing sorry to interrupt, but I listen to everything, intently, in the car. I don't know who ELO influenced, musically, apart from the Travelling Wilburys et al. That's mainly because their stuff was so wilfully influenced by the Beatles and so much lumpen AOR anyway, so anything cited could also be claimed more directly by a.n. other artist. Wire were quite singular.
(xpost THE WIRE???)

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:15 (twenty-two years ago)

god help us if any band claimed to be influenced by 'The Wire'

― pete b. (pete b.), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:20 (twenty-two years ago)

'yeah, we present a radical anti-capitalist manifesto through a fusion of free folk, arhythmic hip hop and glitch'

― pete b. (pete b.), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:21 (twenty-two years ago)

'and then we reformed Wire'

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, there was a band influenced by Pitchfork reviews... it happens!

― Diego Valladolid (dvalladt), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:23 (twenty-two years ago)

"sorry to interrupt, but I listen to everything, intently, in the car."

I wasn't seeking to knock the car as a listening post by any means - only to distinguish between the passive "heard" and the active "listened to".

The Wire? That's a magazine that's read by "the music savvy" (as opposed to e.g. Q, which is a magazine that's looked at by loads of people) isn't it?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:24 (twenty-two years ago)

In terms of worthwhile cultural impact, meaningful influence, I'm saying Wire every time.

Meaningful to whom? Worthwhile to whom? "Living Thing" happens to move me very deeply, y'know. What wondrous things have come from Wire that are so amazing? There have been some very good singles in the last few years that have ripped off ELO, as it happens.

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

i like wire a lot, i love 'chairs missing' in particular. i've just got 'out of the blue' but i haven't listened to it yet: i expect i'll like it.

i don't find this talk of 'influence' and 'cultural importance' particularly edifying. also this serious/silly opposition doesn't hold up because wire were a great pop band and very funny too.

― pete b. (pete b.), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:49 (twenty-two years ago)

edward i'm sure you'd like the 70s wire singles!

― pete b. (pete b.), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, where's Mark S when you need him? Too much discussion on so-called influence.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, all the Wire 70's singles were of the "I can't believe that was not a hit" variety, apart from 'outdoor miner' funnily enough.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:54 (twenty-two years ago)

ELO clearly had the larger commercial success. It's also quite easy to mount an argument that musically they were better - god, "Last Train To London", "Mr Blue Sky" etc etc classic singles..

Then someone says that Wire had far more far-reaching influence because lots of their acolytes started bands.

But how many of them were noteworthy? ELO's influence is probably just as pervasive, it just boils down to who notices what. The same people that dug Wire over ELO probably prefer the bands who were influenced by Wire and vice versa. Therefore, that's pretty much a stalemate isn't it, even if, as Pete says, it's HARDLY A GREAT WAY OF MEASURING ANYTHING TO BEGIN WITH.

Therefore, ELO must win by virtue of the fact that many, many more people alive today can sing "Xanadu" or "Don't Bring Me Down" than "Three Girl Rhumba".

(P.S. I do like the 70s Wire singles!)

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:54 (twenty-two years ago)

(and I've never held with influence --> greatness, I was being a bit of a devil's advocate)

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 17 June 2004 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"ELO must win by virtue of the fact that many, many more people alive today can sing "Xanadu" or "Don't Bring Me Down" than "Three Girl Rhumba"."

I disagree entirely - the vocals / melodies on Xanadu and Don't Bring Me Down are fairly complicated and pitched far too high for the average adult male to be able to sing confortably without straining or screeching.

Three Girl Rhumba by comparison only uses three or four notes, is all sung in one key, pitched comfortably for most people and would be an absolute piece of piss for them to sing.

If only they knew the words.

Or the tune.

Or had ever even heard it before.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:29 (twenty-two years ago)

That's splitting straws. What I mean is a large number of people could identify the song and sing something at least vaguely recognisable as being the same thing.

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:33 (twenty-two years ago)

30,000 art majors can't be wrong!!!!

― 0r4l R0b3rt5 (ex machina), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:33 (twenty-two years ago)

I could sing all them ELO tracks. But then, I'm great.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:43 (twenty-two years ago)

anyhow... as a service...

Think of a number
Divide it by two
remember the number
another a number

(do not alter the note you chant the above, there you are nearly halfway there)...

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Riding on any wave
There is the luck you crave
They don't believe it now,
They just think it's stupid
So got anything ?
Anyone could have done
Who would've cared at all, not you

Another heart has made the trade
Forget it, forget it, forget it
I don't understand how a heart is a spade
But somehow the vital connection is made

Riding on anything
Anything's good enough
Who would've thought it of someone like you
Just as they brought me round
Now that they brought you down
Roundabout and roundabout
Who wants a life anyway?

Another heart has made the grade
Forget it, forget it, forget it
I don't understand how the last card is played
But somehow the vital connection is made

― 0r4l R0b3rt5 (ex machina), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:45 (twenty-two years ago)

"That's splitting straws. What I mean is a large number of people could identify the song and sing something at least vaguely recognisable as being the same thing."

I've never held with quantity being any sort of signifier whatsoever regarding quality.... I was being a bit of a devil's advocate.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, those lyrics are much better read than sung...

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Zing. But the point still stands. The songs have stayed with more people. Actually, someone should do a vox pops thing to test it out.

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

"Actually, those lyrics are much better read than sung... "

There isn't actually a vast amount of difference to be honest, is there?

Hence far more people alive today would be able to make a reasonable approximation of that one than would be able to sing something as exacting as "Xanadu" or "Don't Bring Me Down"....

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 17 June 2004 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

"The songs have stayed with more people. Actually, someone should do a vox pops thing to test it out."

The number of people who've heard "Xanadu" or "Don't Bring Me Down" will clearly be enormously larger than the number who've heard "Three Girl Rhumba"; consequently in absolute terms the number of people who "Xanadu" or "Don't Bring Me Down" has "stayed with" will almost certainly also be larger.

Please note however, that this does not prove anything.

More people have trodden in dog shit than have won the jackpot on the National Lottery; this doesn't mean people prefer treading in dog shit, it just means that there's far more of it about.

No, I am not attempting to call ELO dogshit, merely to make an allusion.

What you'd actually need to test this would be a comparison between an empirical measure of how much each song has "stayed with" a statistically balanced sample of the people who've heard it, as a proportion of the relevant sample size for each song.

Before you ask, I have absolutely no idea how you might go about establishing "an empirical measure of how much each song has "stayed with" a statistically balanced sample of the people who've heard it".

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:09 (twenty-two years ago)

The clinical method would be to take four sets of people, one of which hear ELO, one of which hear Wire, one set of which hear both, and one of which are given a placebo...

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually think that ELO would win this hypothetical test, and you are right, that is what should be measured.-

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

But which Placebo album would you play?

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Which Placebo 'though Mark? Nancy Boy? Without You I'm Nothing?

x-post - great minds!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I am this close to making a disc containing Placebo, Wire and ELO into town tomorrow and doing this. But I've got so much to do around my couch.

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:18 (twenty-two years ago)

The method isn't the tough bit 'though - establishing a scientific means of measuring the results is!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Placebo-->Wire-->ELO would make a great segue on a mixtape!

― pete b. (pete b.), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:21 (twenty-two years ago)

*Ten minutes ago*

Mark Grout *thinks* "Shall mention a placebo in a clinical trial and see who makes reference to Brian Molko......"

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Meaningful to whom? Worthwhile to whom? "Living Thing" happens to move me very deeply, y'know.

To me. That's what I said.

I, personally, couldn't give a toss if I ever heard another ELO tune in my puff, whereas I find Wire endlessly interesting and stimulating, from Pink Flag (although not quite so much Pink Flag) through to Send. So, for me they have the greater cultural impact.

For you, it's ELO. Not everyone has the same cultural reference points.

― coco, Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, obviously. What the last few posts in this thread have been saying is that the answer to the original question: which has had the "greater cultural impact" - is not as cut-and-dried as the post I was referring to seemed to make it out.

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:25 (twenty-two years ago)

couldn't give a toss if I ever heard another ELO tune in my puff,

coco? puff? how sweet!

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:26 (twenty-two years ago)

"Not everyone has the same cultural reference points."

Very true - and perhaps more importantly, not everyone has the same goals.

If Wire were trying to achieve an extremely commercially viable and lucrative fusion between pop, prog. and classical music, then they failed abysmally.

ELO, on the other hand, would have been bottled off the stage if they'd appeared at The Roxy in 1977.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:33 (twenty-two years ago)

to be fair, I think Wire were very nearly bottled off the stage at the Roxy in 1977 ...

― coco, Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Everyone got nearly bottled off at the Roxy. That was even if they liked you .

(caveat: I was not there...)

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:39 (twenty-two years ago)

caveat: I was not born

― coco, Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:42 (twenty-two years ago)

"Banned from the Roxy-OKAY!/They wouldn't let us plug in our transluscent glowing cellos-ANYWAY!" (that's my favorite ELO b-side)

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

At least I went to the damned place!

caveat: not until 1978, and not when Wire were playing.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:48 (twenty-two years ago)

How many people were in ELO? 7 or 8? I don't think they'd have got 'em all on the stage at The Roxy....

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 17 June 2004 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll just step back in
to say that ELO rulez.
that's not relevant.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

they are both great, you are all fools.

Stence OTM!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 17 June 2004 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

"OMG ELO ROXOR U ARE ALL NOT GAY ENUFF"

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I have Wire albums and I have ELO albums and I wouldn't part with either.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 17 June 2004 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

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