Why Do Critics Attack Other Critics

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Is there any legitimate reason to go on and on slamming other music critics (SFJ on Nick Hornby; Daddino on DeRogatis & co.; etc.) Is it just ego boosting, wannabe academic exercise, or does it actually serve a useful function?

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:28 (twenty-one years ago)

because critics "criticize" for a living!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

haha you're basically questioning value of ALL book reviews

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

haha you're basically questioning the value of ALL book reviews

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

so you don't think they attack other critics to make themselves feel better, instead of critiquing art in service of the public?

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm not questioning the value of it, i'm questioning the spirit and intent of it.

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

why don't you give some examples from those reviews of why you assume their intent is questionable.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

as opposed to every other review ever

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

critiquing other people's views on art = critiquing art

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

so you think it's perfectly legit to attack other critics for sport?

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

for sport

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

did i say that? (xp)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

it's the height of arrogance. but then again, music critics are the most pretentious lot on the planet, compensating for their fat bodies and lack of love lives.

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

NOW who's hunting DeRogatis for sport?

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

hahahahahahahah me

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

why not just call this thread "i don't care for music critics"?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

because i love music critics.

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Armond White to thread (please get hit by a bus en route thx)

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

because i love music critics

then you should love the height of arrogance

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

arrogance RULES. nothing better.

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

it's useful because it allows ppl to avoid critics that they might dislike, in the same way that negative reviews help ppl avoid music that they dislike. Also, it helps ppl to find new arguments to back up their dislike of a certain critic when discussing them, much as negative reviews help ppl find new arguments to use when discussing music they like.

gear I accidentally own an Armond White book, why is he bad?

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I was wondering when I was gonna see this thread.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:58 (twenty-one years ago)

(wait, is this another thread about the Alex In NYC/VV softball game?)

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:58 (twenty-one years ago)

He's just a jerk whose analysis isn't very useful because once he likes a director, he'll defend them to the end (DePalma, Spielberg, Altman, Jonathan Demme, Kevin Costner, Oliver Stone), and once he doesn't like someone, that's it, they're irredeemable (Denzel Washington, Samuel L. Jackson, PT Anderson, Hong Kong cinema, etc).

the fun comes from watching him twist around when one of his pets works with someone/something he hates (Denzel w/Demme, Altman working with DV). He always ends up saying something like "hey usually he/this sucks, but DEMME etc makes it work!"

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 12 August 2004 20:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Daddino, you think very highly of yourself, no?

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Daddino, you think very highly of yourself, no?

The real Spoonie Gee would never find fault in this

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I was just reading Nick Hornby today in The Believer. I like his books column. It's funny.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

no, spoonie gee would not.

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

and now it's time to play Guess Which Kill Your Idols Contributor Is Posting As Spoony G!!!!

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

SpRo?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

HAHAHAHAHAHA i have no idols to kill.

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

so you're just a bored troll, then?

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

oh man, I got hash and a reload button fer this thread, my night is DONE!

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

i agree. i like hornby's writing. the marah piece was gay, but i don't need to elevate myself by lengthily stepping on it in public.

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:06 (twenty-one years ago)

that's because your critiques lack a modicum of insight

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

nah, i just like calling arrogant rock critics out on their bullshit self-aggrandizing ways

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry, that's why no one asked you to.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post)

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

My god, this is great for curing my insomnia, thanks SpRo!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

the real CeCe Peniston would never find fault with that.

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

CeCe is a critic who hates being called out.

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

i hate you, CeCe Peniston.

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

you haven't called me out yet, dawg (btw I recommend dropping the names of two bands I like, breaks my heart every time)

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i didn't say *I* did; you just don't like it in general.

you've been watching too much american idol, dawg.

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:11 (twenty-one years ago)

i disagree, dawg

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:11 (twenty-one years ago)

CeCe walks the fucking walk and talks the fucking talk, motherfucker! With his REAL name in lights!

That's it! The only ism I want to come out of your mouths is jism. Overacademic Bullshit Must Die.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:12 (twenty-one years ago)

i liked your vines review though -- WELL DONE, SPORT!

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I sometimes wonder if that thread is when the terrorists started to win on ILX (I'm not that proud, aside from the fact that I used my real anme).

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

you know i love you, miccio

― spoony G, Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I like that thread, Anthony. It's a hoot!

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 12 August 2004 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Skipping 96 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

oh i agree, marcello. i absolutely do. i just find the public (if we want to call blogs public) chastizing to be a bit tasteless. and i'm not necessarily condemning these actions, i'm just trying to suss out some of the motivations behind them.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 13 August 2004 12:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I was wondering why the heck Yancey would think any of this comes from jealousy.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 August 2004 12:47 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post to previous Yancey post)

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 August 2004 12:47 (twenty-one years ago)

ILX is also jealous of Carrot Top

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 August 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

anthony, where do you see jealousy in what i wrote? certainly there's jealousy if a writer who you feel is inferior is more successful than you are, and i hardly see why you should get so defensive about that.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 13 August 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

certainly there's jealousy if a writer who you feel is inferior is more successful than you are

if your goal is to be the most successful, yes

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 August 2004 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

yancey, did you read all the posts above that discuss the numerous reasons one could want to express dissastifaction with the works of others aside from THAT SHOULD BE ME! You don't have to think your shit smells like flowers to be offended by dog turds.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 August 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

THIS IS SUCK A FUCKING GODAWFUL BORING THREAD. THANK YOU ~~JIM REROGATIS~~ UR SPOONY FOR PROVIDING VERBAL NYTOL.

EVEN A "WHY DO BANDS ATTACK OTHER BANDS?" THREAD WOULD BE FAR MORE EXCITING AND ACTUALLY REVELATORY.

BOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!

― VYVYAN WYSTWYYD, Friday, 13 August 2004 12:59 (twenty-one years ago)

of course you don't have to think that. i don't disagree. but there is often much more behind criticism than a simple "i don't like it" or "i don't think this is good."

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 13 August 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

And it was so boring that you read it all the way through! Word for word! Fantastic! The tedium must have been intolerable!

(xpost)

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 13 August 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost)

But if a writer doesn't show all of his motivations, either liminally or subliminally, how can we even begin to talk about them?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 13 August 2004 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

HAHA I HAD TO START SKIMMING ONCE SPOONY GOT EVEN MORE ARROGANT AND SNOTTY... BUT WAIT THATS WHAT HES CRITIZIING OTHER PEOPLE FOR! GASP I TELL YOU.. GASP. SO YEAH THIS IS A BIT TROLLING OH FUCING WELL. NEXT AMAZING DISCUSSION: POLICITIANS USE POLITICS AS MEANS TO GET BY AND FOR PROFESSIONAL SPORT. PEOPLE REWARD FRIENDS INSTEAD OF PEOPLE WHO "RILLY DIZERVE THE CREDIT, MAAAAAAAAAAAAN" AND SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE. YEAH, FUCKING GREAT EXCITING WORLD THAT IS. WOOHOO. THE WAY THE DROOL OF MY MOUTH IS HITTING THE DESK IS IN WAYS THAT THE LATEST WHITE STRIPES RECORD HAS CHANGED MY LIFE!

― VYVYAN WYSTWYYD, Friday, 13 August 2004 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)

We all have our own ways of getting through this thing called life.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 13 August 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

AND THE WORD LIFE MEANS FOREVER AND THATS A MIGHTY LONG TIME...

BUT..........

(SEE? LETS GET BACK TO REFERENCING GREAT POP SONGS OF OUR TIME. THATS WHAT ILM IS FOR!!! :) :) :) ME HAPPY AND NOT AS NEARLY TERMINALLY BORED NOW. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE)

― THE IRRESISTIBLE BEVERLY HILLS SHRINK BITCH, Friday, 13 August 2004 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

No that's not a great pop song. Worst track on the album. Like DeBarge gone epileptic.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 13 August 2004 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Critics attack critics because people fight hardest when the stakes are low.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 13 August 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Critics attack critics because people fight hardest when the stakes are low.

This statement may or may not be self-negating.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 13 August 2004 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)

This is not a post about a pipe.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 August 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Of all critics, however, jazz writers are the most petty and bitter. It must be tough to care so much about music with an exponentially shrinking audience.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 13 August 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I read that as "an exponentially shrieking audience". A Boyband Writer perhaps?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 13 August 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

GOOD CHARLOTTE!

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 August 2004 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

critics enjoy pissing contests and what yancey said.

― doomie x, Friday, 13 August 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I think critics attack other critics out of (subconscious?)feelings of insecurity about their own work. It's a way of deflecting attention from the matters at hand. Back around 94/95 this trope about other critics started appearing in rock reviews: "well, all the other critics say x about Nirvana/Pearl Jam/Hootie whoever, but I say y..."
Of course, blogs are a completely different sphere.
The corrective to all this is to write something (like a book) that gets reviewed. Having your work criticized (not ad hominem attacked) will completely re-order a critic's perceptions about the act (art?) of criticism.

― luvbug MC, Friday, 13 August 2004 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Why does a dog lick its own balls?
-- David Allen (Davidalle...), August 13th, 2004.

My dog doesn't do this, but then again I don't actually own a dog.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 13 August 2004 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

BTW, that is the most magnificent statement that I (or any human being for that matter) have ever penned.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 13 August 2004 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

so this thread was spawned because a critic criticized a book written by critics ostensibly doing a bad job at criticizing canonical albums in the book, according to the former critic?

you know, sometimes athletes talk shit about athletes too. how about that? the nerve.

even more shocka, sometimes people in GENERAL talk shit about other people in GENERAL, too. if there's any implied coda amongst any culture critics that make criticizing other critics taboo, quote the taboo and keep us posted please k bye.

― KILL YR CRITICKZ, Friday, 13 August 2004 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

or maybe people should take criticism of their work for what it is and not assume its part of some nefarious bile filled impulse, perhaps maybe possibly?

― KILL YR CRITICKZ, Friday, 13 August 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Q: How many ILMers does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: Remain In Light is overrated!

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 13 August 2004 17:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Because those who can, do. Those who can't, beome critics.

― 57 7th (calstars), Friday, 13 August 2004 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

zzzzz

― geeta (geeta), Friday, 13 August 2004 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

you're just jealous of D. Keenan.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 August 2004 19:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Critics attack because they're jealous of our freedoms.

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 13 August 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

"Hey, wait, come back I've got something else...zzzzzzzz"
"VERBAL NYTOL"
"zzzzz"

Sleepiest Thread Ever!!

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 13 August 2004 19:54 (twenty-one years ago)

"why do people read ilm?"

― jess, Friday, 13 August 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean, did no one else draw this "parallel" for the last 666 posts?

― jess, Friday, 13 August 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

The Number of the Critic

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

p.s. once a year we all get together for a game of touch football, and work out our aggressions. if you really must know.

― jess, Friday, 13 August 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

hey ned, unlock the stanger/s.weekly thread, i wanted to piss on charles mau'dib or whatever his name is for a while.

― jess, Friday, 13 August 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

jess's sentiment seconded. I wanted to ask if they've really been sleeping on mix-a-lot.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Hi, Jess!

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

plus who died and made Ned Graham? Blount is one censored muhfuh

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

hi scott! i thought of you today while reading at work.

― jess, Friday, 13 August 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

We could have used Jess and Blount on this thread, then Ned coulda put it out of its misery.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

separating two dogs from fucking does not equal "putting them out of their misery"

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Depends on the phrasing and position.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

That's cool, Jess. I understand why you and matos and others aren't on ILM like before, but I miss some of that orneriness. Seeya, gotta go buy booze!

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway, I DID say I would unlock it soon and I will here in a minute, patience. It was not meant to be permanent and I posted about it on the mod board as well, comments can be made there.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

why aren't they on ILM like before?

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I like my monkey knife fights.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:28 (twenty-one years ago)

http://oc4free.scalded.net/monkey_knife.jpg

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

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