blues & soul's garage columnist belittles dizzee's showtime as 'experimental'

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hmmmm. not sure if i would say its experimental. part of the problem i have with the new album is that its not experimental enough.

anyway, i doubt many ILXors read B&S but chantelle fiddy writes:

its only a montho to go before dizzees sophomore album, showtime, hits the stores. production talent comes from wonder and youngster on stand up tall (the next single) and dizzee himself. The video for the new single is rumoured to have been shot in the same club ludacris used recently for ppussy popping. While the track is going down well, one big question is why did the bside, featuring d double e, not make it onto the album? Many djs are favouring it, one anonymous so and so went so far as to tell me 'it pisses on the single and most of the album.'

Much like boy in da corner, at a ground level, verdict seems to be out on showtime. While style press and musos are creaming their pants no end, dizzees obviously not following the underground like he used to. His grume heavy influence now sounds a million miles away from whats popping on the streets right now. Overall the album is probably best described as taking a more experimental course of action. However it is definitely a grower and has some standout moments. Saying that, if dizzees growing popularity abroad is anything to go by, hes probably not worrying too much.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

1 question: Did this person even hear the record?

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

im guessing that they did. but it reads like typical 'sell out!' accusations.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

probably just the once, from another room. the comment about 'style press and musos' is interesting tho - there's a hint of irritation there no?

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

ahhh the old "bastard sold out and went experimental" gripe...

― peter smith (plsmith), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

why would a music mag use the word "muso" as perjorative?

― stelfox, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

because you know, theyre not taking this music thing seriously so arent musos. its common to diss the 'muso' mentality in the 'urban' press.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

AMAZON DOT COM, CRUSHING MY HEART WITH HURT:

Customers who bought titles by Dizzee Rascal also bought titles by these artists:

TV on the Radio
Air
Basement Jaxx
The Shins
Outkast

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

"However it is definitely a grower with some standout moments."

wow she slagged it off something rotten didn't she?

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 13:00 (twenty-one years ago)

who said she slagged it off? i said she *belittled* the experimentation. is chantelle your girlfriend marcello?

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmmm, Chantelle's the editor of Deuce, she certainly knows her stuff. I think she's just mourning Dizzee's eagerness to put distance between himself and the scene he came out of. To suggest she hasn't heard the record, though, is ridiculous.

― Jason J, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Chantelle Fiddy is someone who knows what she is talking about.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

it almost reads as if shes saying that dizzee should be sounding more like everyone in the scene. i think hes just being honest about the distance between him and the scene, he cant really be that much of a part of it at his level. or perhaps he can and just doesnt want to.

i wouldnt say the new album is more experimental than BIDC though, not by a long shot.

― splooge (thesplooge), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah haha "1 question: Did this person even hear the record?" i think she heard it a long time before most people

― ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 16:02 (twenty-one years ago)

just because shes the editor of deuce, doesnt mean shes the be and end all authority on this.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

No but she is.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see the problem with this review.

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the only valid criticism with it is that it doesn't actually mention any of the tracks or describe them, but space is limited in B&S what with all those huge pictures of Usher and what have you.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

chantelle fiddy has posted to the grime 2003/4 threads.

― cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Also it would be nice to hear why distancing yourself from a scene is such a bad thing. I have mixed views on Dizzee's aspirations to be the British Jay-Z but the jury's still out on whether grime can really make any kind of commercial impact at all (other than elements of it creeping into pop production).

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

exactly, its not like hes gone off and made commercial R&B or something. at least he has some individual artistic backbone and isnt doing cheesy grime-for-bingo-hall-discos music.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post, B&S is an okay magazine, as long as they dont have hattie collins writing for them. she writes like shes writing for some smash hits-meets-womans own sort of press release.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

But Chantelle doesn't say it's necessarily a bad thing, what Dizzee's done on 'Showtime'. She's writing from the perspective of a 'scene' grime fan, because that's what she is - and if it's different from what the bloggers/broadsheets/whatever write, well, that's a take on it of just as much interest to me as anything I'll read on Reynolds or whatever.

I think the one confusing aspect of the review is that term 'experimental'. It's a pretty wooly term, really. I think Chantelle's using it to describe the way that Dizzee's moved away from the grime/sublow template, slowed things up - but obviously people here will read that term in a very different way. I dunno, expect some Derek Bailey or something.

(BTW, what is 'cheesy grime-for-bingo-hall-discos'? Has grime really come so far in your neck of the woods?)

― Jason J, Tuesday, 24 August 2004 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Customers who bought titles by Dizzee Rascal also bought titles by these artists:

TV on the Radio
Air
Basement Jaxx
The Shins
Outkast

haha this could be read to imply that only Jess has bought a Dizzee album

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 22:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the review is fine, but what makes it *appear* dubious is all the references to outside opinions or value judgments - DJs, style press, musos, the-street-right-now - which make Chantelle's own opinion hard to track from start to finish.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 22:33 (twenty-one years ago)

she seems swayed by the usual post-fame chatter of selling out, compromise, abandoning roots/scenes, etc etc in favour of saying whether this is a good, bad or fine thing.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Tuesday, 24 August 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Or maybe it's that there's a tendency for niche/scene "insiders" to drift towards a certain inherent conservatism, which automatically treats perceived "experimentalism" with wariness? I've seen this before in specialist publications. It's as if the people inside the scene have subconsciously constructed a conformist yardstick for their tastes, against which everything else must be measured - e.g. is this track "grime" enough, does this deep house track fall within the prescribed bpm range, etc. If Dizzee steps outside these norms, and this outside his scene, then insiders can't help but feel a certain degree of betrayal - like something has been lost along the way. Happens all the time with indie acts as well...

― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I personally consider it bad form to review an album but not mention a single track on it or attempt some desription of them, but as I said upthread I guess time and space sometimes limit.

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 09:04 (twenty-one years ago)

It's just a column entry rather than a review though, surely?

― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 09:16 (twenty-one years ago)

my first response on seeing the threat title, without seeing who wrote the review, was to say "well it's for a magazine called 'blues & soul' whaddya expect" and i think i stand by that.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 09:32 (twenty-one years ago)

haha threat = thread

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 25 August 2004 09:32 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...

I've just stumbled across this and wasn't sure whether to respond or not but my hands have got the better of me.

It wasn't a review, I didn't have the space. Reading it back it certainly isn't very conclusive I agree, but if I'm honest that's because at the time I couldn't make my mind up. I for one have never hidden the fact I didn't really get down with Boy In Da Corner as much as I'd expected to. But at the same time I would never deny it's genius. This too applies to Showtime but if I was to sum it up now, as wooly a word as it is, coming from a 'grime fans' perspective, it's experimental. I've discussed and listened to this album with many of the scenes producers and MC's, none of whom seem that adverse to my description. Personally I far, far prefer Wiley's Treddin On Thin Ice to either of these albums. I think this is more a case of where you're coming from and who you're writing.

I've never previously considered the muso V's urban press point either. Perhaps it's because 'urban' journalists aren't taken as seriously that they can come across as slightly bitter?

― Chantelle Fiddy, Thursday, 18 November 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i much prefer boy in da corner and treddin' on thin ice to showtime. i still cant make up my mind on what i think of showtime as a whole (despite great songs like stand up tall or fickle) but part of me seems to think its kinda leaden in places (or maybe just a bit boring, sounds like he worked on it too hard, and got rid of a lot of the rawness and immediacy). for me, all the bsides should have been on the album in place of corny tracks like imagine (which is a shit song, made worse when he does it acapella on the bside of dream).

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 18 November 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

The acapella of "Imagine" *is* crap but the original is great! WTF is not to love?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 18 November 2004 01:54 (twenty-one years ago)

What's the name of this B-Side that "pisses on the single and most of the album"?

― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 18 November 2004 02:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"give u more" i think

it's alright

― Lukas (lukas), Thursday, 18 November 2004 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

i wouldnt say give u more pisses on stand up tall but it is fucking great.

"The acapella of "Imagine" *is* crap but the original is great! WTF is not to love?"

well for a start, theres those lyrics about what would you think if i said i was leaving the hood which just reeks of just-add-water cornballia. matter of fact, most of the lyrics on imagine are maximum cornballism! to be honest, i do kinda like the sentimentality and naieveity of the lyrics, but i do think i'd find them less corny (and thats corny in light of how many times ive heard this sort of topic being addressed in countless hip hop lyrics) if the beat had less of those 80s MOR chords/synths that made me think of similar rap-sap like say, LL cool J's father. if he rapped it over a more uptempo or less obvious 'this is the slow-paced thought provoking, introspective' beat, it would probably appeal to me more. this is just me mind, a lot of other people here seem to love it. but then a lot of those people also thought that crazy titch murked dizzee out of their respective freestyles.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 18 November 2004 11:27 (twenty-one years ago)

ooops, that last sentence should read 'but then a lot of those people also thought that dizzee murked crazy titch out of their respective freestyles.' i.e. he blatantly didnt!

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 18 November 2004 11:29 (twenty-one years ago)

"i'd find them less corny (and thats corny in light of how many times ive heard this sort of topic being addressed in countless hip hop lyrics) if the beat had less of those 80s MOR chords/synths that made me think of similar rap-sap like say, LL cool J's father."

I've always loved 80s MOR chords/synths in rap so maybe I can't objectively judge this track.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 18 November 2004 11:34 (twenty-one years ago)

haha "objectively"

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 18 November 2004 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I was being silly obv Matos - esp considering the post I just made on that F.R Leavis thread!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 18 November 2004 12:01 (twenty-one years ago)

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