― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 27 August 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)
― sexyDancer, Friday, 27 August 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)
― Abbitt, Friday, 27 August 2004 18:43 (twenty-one years ago)
― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 27 August 2004 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)
― amateur!!st, Friday, 27 August 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)
― n.a. (Nick A.), Friday, 27 August 2004 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)
― daavid (daavid), Friday, 27 August 2004 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 27 August 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 27 August 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)
― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 27 August 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)
there were times when i could have murdered her. ...
...
but you know i would hate anything to happen to her ...
fucking genius. fucking best group ever. even better than the beatles. before i thought they were the beatles of the 80s. i would have realized their genius sooner if they'd been around in my teens.
― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Friday, 27 August 2004 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)
― amateur!!st, Friday, 27 August 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)
This was actually one of my favourite songs through the spring. I put in on my march mix CD for posterity:
1 josh rouse - 1972 2 stars - elevator love letter 3 the supremes - i hear a symphony 4 america - sister golden hair 5 the smiths - girlfriend in a coma 6 rick springfield - love is alright tonight 7 cheap trick - i want you to want me 8 tina turner - we don't need another hero 9 pet shop boys - west end girls 10 strange advance - we run 11 saint etienne - hate your drug 12 starship - we built this city 13 weeping tile - through yr radio 14 morrissey - suedehead 15 ted leo and the pharmacists - bridges, squares 16 the lilac time - so far away
― derrick (derrick), Friday, 27 August 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 27 August 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ian c=====8 (orion), Friday, 27 August 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)
― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Friday, 27 August 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)
― n.a. (Nick A.), Friday, 27 August 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)
n. An affectation or appreciation of manners and tastes commonly thought to be artificial, vulgar, or banal. Banality, vulgarity, or artificiality when deliberately affected or when appreciated for its humor: “Camp is popularity plus vulgarity plus innocence” (Indra Jahalani).
adj. Having deliberately artificial, vulgar, banal, or affectedly humorous qualities or style: played up the silliness of their roles for camp effect.
― amateur!!st, Friday, 27 August 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)
― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 27 August 2004 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)
― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Friday, 27 August 2004 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)
― sexyDancer, Friday, 27 August 2004 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)
I think "Bigmouth Strikes Again" is playing that role -- it's the Smiths song that got played in all the retro 80's student pubs.
― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)
― artdamages (artdamages), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ian c=====8 (orion), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)
― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ian c=====8 (orion), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:33 (twenty-one years ago)
― fact checking cuz (fcc), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)
Ahem.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ian c=====8 (orion), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ian c=====8 (orion), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)
― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Friday, 27 August 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 27 August 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)
― Mr. Snrub, Friday, 27 August 2004 23:34 (twenty-one years ago)
― keith m (keithmcl), Saturday, 28 August 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 28 August 2004 03:41 (twenty-one years ago)
Replace the "shop" with "shirt" in "Shoplifters Of The World Unite." The rest of the lyrics will make more sense too.
― Atnevon (Atnevon), Saturday, 28 August 2004 04:10 (twenty-one years ago)
Girlfriend in a coma, I knowI know - it's seriousGirlfriend in a coma, I knowI know - it's really seriousthere were timeswhen I couldhave 'murdered' her(but, you know, I would hateanything to happen to her)NO, I DON'T WANT TO SEE HERDo you really thinkshe'll pull through?Girlfriend in a coma, I knowI know - it's seriousthere were times when I couldhave 'strangled' her(but, you know, I would hateanything to happen to her)WOULD YOU PLEASELET ME SEE HER!Do you really thinkshe'll pull through?Let me whisper my last goodbyes
I know - IT'S SERIOUS
also the 'I know its serious'. How does he know? (and also he mentions he could've 'murdered' her in the first verse). I got this from a smiths webpage and the 'I would hate anything to happen to her' is in brackets too.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 28 August 2004 09:40 (twenty-one years ago)
― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Saturday, 28 August 2004 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)
― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Saturday, 28 August 2004 12:07 (twenty-one years ago)
N. may be right about what other people think, but if so I don't share their views, for I love 'How Soon Is Now?'.
Someone said the start of 'GIAComa' was awkward. And that is true: why does it start in that odd way? It should maybe have commenced with a pretty guitar intro, I think, naturally.
I have long been 'influenced' by the last note, the G flat or whatever it is. I make that move practically every time I pick up a guitar.
― the bellefox, Saturday, 28 August 2004 13:48 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 28 August 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― the bellefox, Saturday, 28 August 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 28 August 2004 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)
― the bellefox, Saturday, 28 August 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 28 August 2004 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)
Exactly:
http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/he/photo/movie_pix/mtv/mtv_movie_awards_2003_photos/andy_dick/mtv4.jpg
I mean, again, he's not going to win Mr Universe but he's certainly in enough shape to be able to have an advantage over many people (esp, say, someone who's 5'2" and 115 lbs).
http://www.corryzahn.com/pages/music/m/covers/7e09460a_1.jpeg
But, as I said, this is all kind of beside the point anyway. I just want to practise trying to get pictures to load.
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 30 August 2004 04:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 30 August 2004 04:13 (twenty-one years ago)
― Fergal (Ferg), Monday, 30 August 2004 16:19 (twenty-one years ago)
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 30 August 2004 16:28 (twenty-one years ago)
― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Monday, 30 August 2004 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)
Why? Is it not supposed to rock? The guitars need to be turned UP anyway.
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:27 (twenty-one years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 August 2004 20:47 (twenty-one years ago)
― amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)
But that turns up the vocals and drums too! And they need to be turned DOWN!
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)
When the Smiths do a "rock song", it ends up like "Sweet and Tender Hooligan" or "Shakespeare's Sister"; faster tempo, more aggressive guitar, edgier, less mellifluous vocal. "Shoplifters..." is clearly meant to be more mid-tempo and contemplative.
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:11 (twenty-one years ago)
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)
― amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)
It's spelling it out, like a placard.
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:15 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:16 (twenty-one years ago)
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:17 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:27 (twenty-one years ago)
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:27 (twenty-one years ago)
And yes, I would say it's more akin to "How Soon Is Now?".
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)
I'm still confused myself, but maybe you're using 'singer' as an equivalent of 'narrator'. If so, I'm excited. In very rare cases do I imagine the story in a pop song to include actual singing.
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)
― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:58 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 30 August 2004 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 30 August 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)
― Bimble (bimble), Monday, 30 August 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 30 August 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 30 August 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)
Bimble: First, the irony of setting those lyrics to such cartoonishly light and happy-sounding music. It sounds almost like a jingle, as Anthony said. If he was actually grieving about someone he loved being unconscious would he sing about it to that kind of tune with that kind of accompaniment (even throwing in a "ba ba ba ba. . ." bit)? Certainly The Smiths were capable of a more serious-sounding musical setting.
Then, the narrator's need to keep reassuring himself "I know, I know, it's serious". If this was actually a song about someone grieving, these lyrics would be absurdly stupid - of course it's fucking serious when someone you care about is in a fucking coma.
And then the narrator's feelings are really made clear with "There were times when I could have strangled/murdered her" (sung to possibly the most jingle-like melodic bit), which he then tries to suppress with "but you know I would hate anything to happen to her", which comes set to a descending melodic phrase, sounding like an afterthought. At best, you could say that the narrator is conflicted about her actually being in a coma but he definitely seems to have wished her harm.
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 30 August 2004 22:21 (twenty-one years ago)
Sure, Morrissey probably didn't go shoplifting (even shirtlifting). But isn't the invention the situation, rather than the character? All the songs are sung by Morrissey, are they not? Are there other singers, then, singing, which I've not noticed?
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 30 August 2004 22:30 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 30 August 2004 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Monday, 30 August 2004 22:42 (twenty-one years ago)
― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Monday, 30 August 2004 22:46 (twenty-one years ago)
this may or may not be relevant
Morrissey's Smiths Lyrics: Are they 'in character', or from his own viewpoint?
― zen fule, Monday, 30 August 2004 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)
― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Monday, 30 August 2004 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)
Sure, I have no problem with that. Perhaps he'd even been in a disagreement with her of some kind when tradgedy struck. Many of us are familiar with momentarily feeling like "we could have killed/murdered/strangled" someone who was actually quite dear to us. Were that person to then be involved in some type of accident, we might feel a tinge of guilt, too.
First, the irony of setting those lyrics to such cartoonishly light and happy-sounding music.
Such has been done before many times before by many other artists. 10,000 Maniacs "What's The Matter Here" comes to mind. A happy sounding song about child abuse. Since it's happy sounding, maybe Natalie really has a deep-seated need to hit kids, right? Who knows why "Girlfriend" turned out to be a happy sounding tune? Weren't they looking for a proper single for an album that doesn't exactly have proper singles jumping off it? I feel there's enough anguish in Morrissey's voice here to counteract any happiness of the tune, regardless.
Then, the narrator's need to keep reassuring himself "I know, I know, it's serious".
Reassuring himself? Or just being unable to accept the seriousness of what has occured? Wanting to swat it away as not serious - to think "she will be okay, it's no big deal" and yet knowing it is in fact, serious, and trying to come to grips with that.
he definitely seems to have wished her harm.
Perhaps. But not any more than we might when we have an argument with a friend. Not enough to raise a hand against them. Not enough for this thread to degenerate into a discussion of Morrissey's ability to be violent against women and thoughts of Morrissey's build and I dunno. I just can't get my head around how all this stuff came out of that song.
I'm glad to see there's a Morrissey thread about his lyrics being in character or from his own viewpoint as I'd had a debate with a friend of mine along those lines not too long ago.
― Bimble (bimble), Monday, 30 August 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)
I think some of that might have had to do with Dan and I needing something to do at 2 in the morning. And it's fun to post pictures.
No one, to be clear again, ever said that Morrissey actually does or wants to beat women.
Your interpretation of the song is tenable although I think it seems a little hopeful and less fun. I still don't think the song works very well if you hear it as sincere grieving.
LASID's comments FWIW: A mocking and "controversial" single, this excellent though lightweight song is an example of Morrissey clearly laughing at those who consider him shocking. His unnecessarily journo-baiting flippancy about death in this song is hilarious in context as he gravely sings "I know - it's serious" before the intentionally foot-in-mouth "there were times when I could have murdered her".Morrissey makes it remarkably easy for anyone to see he is provoking controversiality by placing "murdered" and "strangled" in quotes - probably why this song didn't actually cause much of a media ruckus when it was released as a single.
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 30 August 2004 23:14 (twenty-one years ago)
― Krankenhaus, Monday, 30 August 2004 23:18 (twenty-one years ago)
Well I think most of us are partial to the initial way we "hear" songs which is why covers are so tricky sometimes. But here is the point at which I must admit (for I don't think I've actually admitted it here, yet) that as far as Smiths singles go...it's not anywhere near the top of the list, you know?
― Bimble (bimble), Monday, 30 August 2004 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)
OTM
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 30 August 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)
Lol @ u.
― Atnevon (Atnevon), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 02:25 (twenty-one years ago)
I think maybe you meant 'Ask', save that you don't like it.
― the bellefox, Tuesday, 31 August 2004 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)
Other songs in the bracket I mentioned would include 'A Rush and a Push and the Land is Ours'. There perhaps aren't many more. 'The Headmaster Ritual' and 'Paint A Vulgar Picture' are perhaps too specific.
― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)
― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:24 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)
― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)