Factory Records' Tony Wilson on The Libertines/Himself/Drug-Taking By Musicians & Poets/Grime

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Taken from the Sunday Herald.

The Libertines Crack Up

Singer Pete Doherty’s drug-fuelled split from The Libertines is unremarkable in the world of rock, and probably a healthy development in creative terms, writes Factory Records impresario Anthony Wilson

WRITE a piece about The Libertines? Give me a break. I don’t care about The Libertines. But a piece about drugs and music. Where do I sign up? When I say I don’t care for The Libertines, I’m not being controversial for the sake of it. I often am, though not this time. I find the darlings of NME insipid and drab. And I feel bad about that because I have enormous respect and even love for the two Lib champions, Rough Trade owner Geoff Travis and Alan McGee, the Scot who discovered Oasis.

And I tried. I bought the first album. Played it – for 15 minutes even – but I was pushing myself. So. Crap band and crap album, but good press on the drugs front.

And here’s where I get confused – which drugs are we talking about? The word junkie is used when describing Pete Doherty, the band’s former frontman and co-songwriter, but probably wrongly.

Over the remaining paragraphs of this short piece I am going to appear flippant about heroin. And that can be a stupid thing to be. I know just how dangerous and destructive smack is and have seen friends die, so if I offend, please take that into account.

But – the end of a musician’s creative life? Please. Do we have to review the history of 18th and 19th century British poetry to remind ourselves that although 15% of addicts die, and 60% just stop, around 20% live – in something of a haze admittedly – and produce work, good work, until they die of other causes?

Funny this should involve Alan McGee. Back in late 1988, McGee ran up to me on the wide balcony overlooking the Hacienda dance floor (those were his formative days as an honorary Manc) and said, “Tony, that band of yours, the Mondays, you’ve got to sell them now, you’ve got to break them as soon as you can, Tony.” “Why Al, what’s the hurry?” “They’re all gonna die Tony, they’re all gonna die”.

Having realised McGee was talking about their narcotic indulgence, I tried to calm him down and repeated one of my mantras: “Alan, remember what [co-founder of Atlantic Records] Nesuhi Ertegun used to say: ‘Don’t worry about the drugs, some of my biggest artists are junkies, they’ve been junkies for 20 years. They’ve been giving me platinum albums for 20 years. Don’t worry about the drugs. Cocaine, that’s different.”

And there it is. Smack can kill you, but, if you have the strength, it need not kill your creativity (Thank you, Mr Coleridge). As for the other drug – I’d love some informed medical comment instead of outraged public abuse. We all know why cocaine, inducing euphoria and false confidence, makes you think you’re doing great work when in fact the work is utter bilge. That we understand. But why does it make seriously good artists produce utter crap in the first place? And cocaine-fuelled creativity is always, always utter crap. That’s what I want to know.

Anyone who has worked more than a few years in the Garden of Earthly delights that is the music industry has had their “cocaine album”. God help us. For me, the awful three years during which I worked for a company called London Records was only made bearable by the knowledge that in the Tin Machine, they actually had a worse band and album than my lot Revenge. Nuff said.

And so if the drug of choice for Doherty is indeed crack, then that is the cocaine problem to the power of three. Or maybe 33. My beloved Happy Mondays coped well with the stuff Alan McGee was worrying about in 1988. But when they hit crack on Barbados in 1991, the end was nigh …

The one thing that would help – not Doherty, but musicians in the future – is if someone could answer my plea for medical reasoning behind the destruction of creativity that goes hand in hand with the white stuff (no, not amphetamine – that increases your IQ by 7%) and even more the distilled white stuff.

Just don’t use the word junkie; that gives the wrong impression of laudanum: for someone who’s lost on crack, the word should just be “fool”. Another cautionary note; after Shaun Ryder of the Mondays (and most of the rest of them) got lost on crack in Barbados, I despaired and gave up on Ryder in particular. And I was totally f***ing wrong. The lyrics on his Black Grape stuff were up to form (that means sheer genius) and even last year’s understated Australian album contained a single, Scooter Girl, which is up there with his best. So: sack the fools; but don’t give up on them. And as for a band’s main creative source leaving, beware easy predictions. Two other mates, Peter Jenner and Andrew King, were managing a psychedelic outfit in the 1960s. Main man did drugs and went a bit crazy diamond. Peter and Andrew went with the main man and left the baggage (“the musicians”) behind. Main man was Syd Barrett. The band ended up on the Dark Side Of The Moon. Be warned.

So what is this Libertines bullshit? Could it be marketing? I don’t think so; McGee is too honest for that. And I was accused of marketing the Mondays with drug stories when all we did was sit back and wait for the latest excess to occur.

Drugs and music are deeply interesting: Sergeant Pepper was not made on acid, it was made on speedballs; heroin, meeting soul music at the centre of Sly Stone’s cranium, created funk and modern dance music, and on and on. But The Libertines. Try the album and not the press; if you get it, good luck. If, like me, you don’t, then run to the new sounds of British black youth finding an authentic, non-American voice in the wonderful world of post-grime.

(Yes, I’ve got a new band and they aren’t skinny white kids with guitars and “drug problems” – they do have a drug song though; High-Grade Is My Grade.)

This article was not written with a little help from my friends – and I am wondering if my friends Geoff Travis and Alan McGee will ever forgive me – but The Libertines, with or without the drug scandal, are not the big event NME thinks they are.

Tony Wilson is founder of Factory Records who signed Joy Division, New Order, Happy Mondays and James; he was also behind the Hacienda club in Manchester.

The Libertines release their second album, The Libertines, tomorrow

dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Sunday, 29 August 2004 10:13 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a dense and thought provoking article. It's got me thinking anyway.

music mole, Sunday, 29 August 2004 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I just read that whole article in Steve Coogan's voice.

Trayce (trayce), Sunday, 29 August 2004 11:43 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.sundayherald.com/44360

Gribowitz (Lynskey), Sunday, 29 August 2004 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

For me, the awful three years during which I worked for a company called London Records was only made bearable by the knowledge that in the Tin Machine, they actually had a worse band and album than my lot Revenge. Nuff said.

In a word, ouch!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 29 August 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"Rumours" is the exception to the "cocaine creativity is always crap" tenet.

And NME in hyping a band for the sake of hype non-shockah. Even Tony Wilson knows it.

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 29 August 2004 13:50 (twenty-one years ago)

See also Big Baby Jesus

artdamages (artdamages), Sunday, 29 August 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

tony seems to be saying heroin=good for creativity, nothing to worry about/cocaine&crack=bad ofr creativity, something to stress over.

dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Sunday, 29 August 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Why does he write so much like an ILM poster?

David Allen (David Allen), Sunday, 29 August 2004 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

(You mean you haven't realized he's been posting here all this time?)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 29 August 2004 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

haha, i suppose he does write a little like an ILM poster. but, you know what, i like tony wilson. i always have.

so, leaving aside the libertines, lets look at coke and crack. is tony right? are there no good coke or crack records? what do you think?

david acid (gareth), Sunday, 29 August 2004 18:18 (twenty-one years ago)

really don't like the libertines, but i have to admit that i love the new babyshambles stuff i've heard and at this point p.d. is as much of a crackhead as a smackhead so..

well. i don't know what that proves, but.

lauren (laurenp), Sunday, 29 August 2004 18:22 (twenty-one years ago)

good article, but it kinda lost me with the kinda clusmy dichotomy b/t crack and smack, which i think mr. wilson to his credit was trying to avoid. BUT: station to station, tusk, (arguably cuban linx?????) -- i think he was saying,maybe: coke = unsustainable creative frenzy ending in mental burnout/death/religious conversion; smack, more sustainable BUT w/o the abyss-peering mental state that produces songs like 'the ledge'

what intrigues me is the statement that "Sergeant Pepper was not made on acid, it was made on speedballs"! i really want this to be true, for somoe reason

jake b. (cerybut), Sunday, 29 August 2004 18:29 (twenty-one years ago)

hmm. i can't believe they paid him to trot that out again ... he's been peddling that line (no pun intended) for years. he might have a point. then again, he might not. that's the thing about substance abuse: it affects different people in a variety of different ways. strip away the clever-clever "heroin's not so bad" posing and you're left with a feature that says absolutely sod all about anything.

pete doherty is a twat and the liberties are shockingly, shockingly bad. i *cannot believe* that anyone still CARES about a substandard musician with a self-destructive streak. is rock and roll so sick and tired that that's the best it can do?

and the irony, of course, in wilson saying "seen it all before" is that, umm, the sunday herald's still giving over a page lead (i assume: haven't actually seen the paper today, but i guess that's a Seven Days think-piece) to, umm, yet another fucking piece wanking on about the frankly astonishingly tedious fact that some chump in a dreadful band likes his drugs. jesus WEPT!

sorry, winding myself up here. and i love wilson; i think he's a star. he should have told the SH to stick that idea. but he's mates with the (outgoing) editor, so hey.

grimly fiendish, Sunday, 29 August 2004 19:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I love the man. He is a hero. But my thoughts turn to good coke records. Is Rumours the only one? That's not a very good strike rate. He appears to have a point?

music mole, Sunday, 29 August 2004 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

'Here, My Dear,' 'In Our Lifetime," and I presume 'Midnight Love.'

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Sunday, 29 August 2004 23:18 (twenty-one years ago)

'Station to Station'; 'There's A Riot Goin' On'

Edmundo (Edmundo), Monday, 30 August 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely most Steely Dan albums?

Bumfluff, Monday, 30 August 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

'Station to Station'; 'There's A Riot Goin' On'

If you have the original vinyl, you will notice the odd fleck of Peruvian Flake in the grooves

mentalist (mentalist), Monday, 30 August 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Wasnt Evan Dando on crack during making "Come on Feel the Lemonheads"?

Does that then prove or disprove Wilson's theory? =)

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 30 August 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

'Station to Station'; 'There's A Riot Goin' On'
-- Edmundo (edmund.torpe...) (webmail), August 30th, 2004. (Edmundo)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surely most Steely Dan albums?
-- Bumfluff (yy...) (webmail), August 30th, 2004.

These would appear to be a kick in the eye for the Wilson Hypothesis.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Monday, 30 August 2004 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

David Byrne was coked out of his mind too.

David Allen (David Allen), Monday, 30 August 2004 03:34 (twenty-one years ago)

How about disco?

artdamages (artdamages), Monday, 30 August 2004 04:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Evan Dando was on heroin ... ?

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Monday, 30 August 2004 04:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Gene Clark's No Other was supposed to be drenched in coke along with Dennis Wilson's Pacific Ocean Blue

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 30 August 2004 05:27 (twenty-one years ago)

*sucks record sleeve* oh that's not what you meant..

purple patch (electricsound), Monday, 30 August 2004 05:28 (twenty-one years ago)

dickvandyke, I am just speechless. This has made my night. I enjoyed this piece SO much. Thank you for sharing it. It makes me think thoughts like "Oh my God what would I have done without ILM? Suppose I would have missed this?" Wilson has his faults, a bit over the top sometimes, perhaps, but I remain enthralled.

I do think he has a point here if Nico, John Cooper Clarke & Martin Hannett are anything to go by but artdamages brings up disco and I think that may be the first place to look if attempting to refute Wilson.

Bimble (bimble), Monday, 30 August 2004 06:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoops! I forgot to mention Cocteau Twins' Robin Guthrie in Wilson's favor.

Bimble (bimble), Monday, 30 August 2004 06:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought Guthrie (the whole band, even) were speed freaks, esp duing making "Head Over Heels" (I have interviews with Liz saying as much). And it didnt seem to affect them none...

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 30 August 2004 06:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey whaddya know 24 Hour Party People is on Sundance right now.

AaronHz (AaronHz), Monday, 30 August 2004 06:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyone here seen the DVD extras of 24 Hour Party People (at least the UK PAL Version, dunno if the U.S. one is the same). The bit where Peter Saville speaks just killed me. Ian Curtis himself chose the sleeve for Closer before he died?!?!?! Now, I know people who are far more enamoured with Ian Curtis than I've ever been, but really, that's just something else, isn't it?

Also, no, it's been well documented that Guthrie was a smackhead. Since hearing that, I've found it hard to imagine how one could get that kind of sound otherwise...

Although I suppose speed might explain the excellent but certainly very fast paced "In Our Angelhood"!

Bimble (bimble), Monday, 30 August 2004 06:57 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post, what new babyshambles stuff have you heard lauren? i didnt know they had anything new out.

dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Monday, 30 August 2004 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

its quite remarkable how many people think the libertines are so crap.

splooge (thesplooge), Monday, 30 August 2004 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Uh, no it isn't.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 August 2004 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

they have a single coming out in october, maybe?

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, kilimangiro is the next shambles single. i didnt know it was leaked already though.

dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

it's not, really.

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:15 (twenty-one years ago)

in any case, i like it quite a bit (especially considering my antipathy towards the libertines).

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

im gonna try to find it on the seek.

dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

youre probably the first person to prefer BS to the libertines though. most people think:

libertines = shit
babyshambles = even shitter

dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

heroin, meeting soul music at the centre of Sly Stone’s cranium, created funk and modern dance music

Um, I'm not exactly an expert on Sly's life or nothing, but I was fairly certain LA COCA was his soup of the day. I mean, it takes a very vivid imagination to listen to a 20-minute live version of "Take You Higher" and think that the people involved in the creation of that music had ever even been anywhere near smack.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I liked reading this piece, but it kinda confuses me.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:29 (twenty-one years ago)

he writes like he's on a message board!

dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

*coughs, politely notes to DVD the various observations along those lines upthread*

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

It's almost as if he's on a forum or something, the manner in which he pens his observations!

You know what we need? A thead where we can all say things about Factory and Joy Division which everyone else already knows. It could be called, "Say Something Obvious About Factory Records or Joy Division".

the music mole (colin s barrow), Monday, 30 August 2004 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

what intrigues me is the statement that "Sergeant Pepper was not made on acid, it was made on speedballs"! i really want this to be true, for somoe reason

I'm pretty sure it is true

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 11:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought it was Lennon who was on LSD whilst McCartney was the Coke man.

dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Wilson writes like a (slightly) more literary version of c*l*m. (slightly, b/c he uses the nerm "nuff said" grrr ptui spit) which does not endear him to me at all. Not that I liked him much in the first place.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Like anyone cares what Tony Wilson has to say anymore?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Jonathan King:Genesis | Tony Wilson:Joy Division

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

> Like anyone cares what Tony Wilson has to say anymore?

hmm. if mcgee is championing the FUCKING liberties, i think it's only fair that wilson should get to comment, no? plus ca change. (as they say in france. where i'll be in two days. hurrah hurrah.)

actually: wilson is a funny, sussed and intelligent bloke whose only real failing is that he doesn't take himself seriously enough, and therefore is treated as a bit of a joke. mcgee has been responsible for way more shit bands and personal/professional fuck-ups, yet because he's a bit po-faced, ppl still revere him. (well, ok: they don't laugh at him as much as they do wilson.)

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Tuesday, 31 August 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

The Cocteaus started off as speedfreaks (Liz included and I've read that interview as well Trayce) but Raymonde and Guthrie became gargantuan cokeheads as soon as they could afford it and didn't stop until Heaven or Las Vegas.

I would have said the Twins provide a good example of a band making great music under/despite the influence of coke. Chic are another good example.


metalmickey, Monday, 6 September 2004 10:53 (twenty-one years ago)

this is a great piece of ranting.

splooge (thesplooge), Monday, 6 September 2004 11:10 (twenty-one years ago)

my main problem with TW is his rampant anti file sharing stance. He dosn't seem to comperhend the whole "heard it off soulseek, so now i'll buy it on vinyl" argument...

party pooper, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

nine months pass...
Find threads from I Love Music, subject contains 'grime'.

72 results found:

DAEREST V1CE MAGAZINE!!!!! (ex machina), Friday, 17 June 2005 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

two years pass...

Yeah, certainly a loss that this guy died.

Dom Passantino, Thursday, 6 December 2007 11:05 (eighteen years ago)

bimble died?

electricsound, Thursday, 6 December 2007 11:25 (eighteen years ago)

You resurrected this thread to gloat over Tony Wilson's death??

Tracer Hand, Thursday, 6 December 2007 12:02 (eighteen years ago)

Making great music under/despite the influence of coke: The Hissing of Summer Lawns

Supporting Wilson's view on smack not being the death of creativity: Michael Head and the Strands

Hedgerows, Thursday, 6 December 2007 12:19 (eighteen years ago)

dom, that is a heartily twattish post.

grimly fiendish, Thursday, 6 December 2007 13:33 (eighteen years ago)


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