Rock 'n' roll shark-jumping

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Guns 'n' Roses fortifies itself with Buckethead
Pearl Jam releases every live concert they've ever played
Elton John hires the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra to drown him out
Jack White swaps Meg for Loretta
Kiss takes off their make-up and then puts it back on

You get the wit, now run with it


mottdeterre (mottdeterre), Saturday, 16 October 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Guns 'n' Roses fortifies itself with Buckethead

I think a better example would be the video for "Estranged," which actually featured an excess of aquatic wildlife.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 16 October 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Metallica decide they don't want to be a metal band any more.

Wooden (Wooden), Saturday, 16 October 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

"Oh No, It's Devo!" Title and Cover specifically.

everything, Saturday, 16 October 2004 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Kurt Cobain blows his head off.

A Million Talking Hot Dogs (AaronHz), Saturday, 16 October 2004 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Sea Change

alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Saturday, 16 October 2004 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Brighten the Corners

A Million Talking Hot Dogs (AaronHz), Saturday, 16 October 2004 19:12 (twenty-one years ago)

does shark jumping mean a drop from their peak or (what I thought) that there's no reason to explore further? I think all the Beatles went downhill after Rubber Soul (maybe Revolver for John) but I wouldn't say they jumped the shark until Mark David Chapman.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 16 October 2004 19:17 (twenty-one years ago)

guns'n'roses records and releases "use your illusion" as 2 cds.

el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Saturday, 16 October 2004 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it means more a point after they'd dropped from their peak where they'd tried to rekindle interest / reinvigorate themselves by doing something that turned out to be embarassing.

Pangolino (ricki spaghetti), Saturday, 16 October 2004 20:38 (twenty-one years ago)

that garth brooks/chris gaines thing.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 16 October 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

though i guess that's not "rock n' roll" per se, but close enough.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 16 October 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I've misunderstood the phrase; sorry. Here's the definition from www.jumptheshark.com.

Q. What is jumping the shark?

A. It's a moment. A defining moment when you know that your favorite television program has reached its peak. That instant that you know from now on...it's all downhill. Some call it the climax. We call it "Jumping the Shark."  From that moment on, the program will simply never be the same.

The term "jump the shark" was coined by my college roommate for 4 years, Sean J. Connolly, in Ann Arbor, Michigan back in 1985. This web site, book, film, and all other material surrounding shark jumping, are hereby dedicated to "the Colonel."

The aforementioned expression refers to the telltale sign of the demise of Happy Days, our favorite example, when Fonzie actually "jumped the shark." The rest is history.

Jumping the shark applies not only to TV, but also music, film, even everyday life. "Did you see her boyfriend? She definitely jumped the shark." You get the idea.

Pangolino (ricki spaghetti), Saturday, 16 October 2004 20:44 (twenty-one years ago)

but was Fonzie jumping the shark the PEAK of Happy Days? I thought that was the moment where people realized it was BAD!

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 16 October 2004 20:57 (twenty-one years ago)

for instance, I doubt Sleater-Kinney will ever make an album as good as Dig Me Out again but I like "Oh" and "Step Aside" off the last album enough that I'm not ready to say they've jumped the shark.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 16 October 2004 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

It means a terminal loss of mystique. It therefore has as much to do with the reaction by the audience to a particular failure by an artist as it has to do with the failure itself - it is a pre-emptive judgement that the artist or show will never produce anything at their peak again. Some failures are survivable, some are not.

Ruling Strum (Ruling Strum), Saturday, 16 October 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I had been surprised and disappointed to read in the definition the implication that the shark-jumping moment was a kind of apex. If it's a terminal loss of mystique, though, then I feel more satisfied.

Pangolino (ricki spaghetti), Saturday, 16 October 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Elton John hires the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra to drown him out

Elton John jumped the shark already around 1978-79.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 16 October 2004 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Btw. I totally disagree with "Sea Change", which I would say is Beck's best ever album. Probably changed his audience considerably though, alienating all those "hipsters" who found it soooo cool that a white "rocker" liked hip-hop and used hip-hop elements in his music.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 16 October 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway, some obvious answers:

- Genesis releases their first albums with some of the songs written by Phil Collins alone

- The Beatles adopts a "back to the roots" approach on The White Album, somewhat ignoring the musical revolution that they, themselves, helped kickstart.

- Damon Albarn distances himself from Britpop, stop playing "Country House" live, and starts talking about their forthcoming "darker" album.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 16 October 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

sonic youth definitely jumped after 'daydream nation' but the ride downhill has been at a very slight grade and mostly pleasant.

j.m. lockery (j.m. lockery), Saturday, 16 October 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

a terminal loss of mystique

this is the most worthy definition I've heard yet.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 16 October 2004 21:58 (twenty-one years ago)

- Michael Jackson releases "Heal The World" as a single

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 16 October 2004 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I have a hard time thinking up terminal moments for artists that are still active. Even people who haven't meant much to me in recent years (like Paul Westerberg & Lou Reed) seem like they could make a turn around. It's the Honorary Neil Young Hope Springs Eternal Rule that keeps me from saying IT'S OVER the way I could about a TV show.

That said Billy Squier did a pliet over the shark with the "Rock Me Tonite" video.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 16 October 2004 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

There is no bigger shark jump in rock and roll history than Kiss appearing without makeup.

Pearl Jam releasing every single live concert is one of the coolest things any band has ever done. They could be the shittiest band in the world (and some probably think they are the shittiest band in the world), but that was still one of the coolest things any band has ever done.

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 16 October 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Kind of agree regarding Pearl Jam, it was sort of a non corporate thing to do, and as such it was cool.

And I absolutely hate Pearl Jam

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 16 October 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Manthony totally *on* the money with Billy Squier's laff-riot RMT video.

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Saturday, 16 October 2004 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Eminem "Just Lose It"

f ath, Saturday, 16 October 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

You've jumped the shark when the lead single from your new album (or new greatest-hits album) is a cover.

Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Sunday, 17 October 2004 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Pearl Jam releasing every single live concert is one of the coolest things any band has ever done. They could be the shittiest band in the world (and some probably think they are the shittiest band in the world), but that was still one of the coolest things any band has ever done.

i'm sure the fact that they'd lose out on royalties from bootlegs had NOTHING AT ALL to do w/ pearl jam's decision to dump all of those live albums.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 17 October 2004 03:39 (twenty-one years ago)

not to mention that producing a serviceable copy of their concerts = NOT VERY CHEAP. which, of course, probably increases the profit margin from selling those live recordings.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 17 October 2004 03:40 (twenty-one years ago)

(whoops, should have been NOT VERY EXPENSIVE. duh.)

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 17 October 2004 03:40 (twenty-one years ago)

a terminal loss of mystique
this is the most worthy definition I've heard yet.

-- manthony m1cc1o

Yes, it really does get to the heart of the matter.

If this definition is the best, then that seems to make it clear that Kraftwerk jumped the shark when they went digital for the single 'Tour De France', and started using the samples everyone else was using (slap bass, strings, kick and snare): that lost them a fair bit of their mystique.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Sunday, 17 October 2004 03:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i agree wr2 when kraftwerk lost it. to be fair, though, a LOT of early synth bands lost it when things went from analog to digital.

in yer estimation, colin, when did gary numan REALLY jump the shark? before or after berserker?

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 17 October 2004 03:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I would say he jumped it on Beserker. Many would say Warriors, but not me.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Sunday, 17 October 2004 04:01 (twenty-one years ago)

One more for the pile: when Stipe stopped mumbling on Document or thereabouts and it all turned out to be songs about soppy love or the garden shed.

Good Dog, Sunday, 17 October 2004 04:02 (twenty-one years ago)

What do you think Eisbar? And has Gary Numan jumped back with his recent return to form? Or once a shark is jumped, is that it?

And what about John Foxx? For me, it was The Golden Section. Terminal loss of mystique there with those romantic happy lyrics and tunes.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Sunday, 17 October 2004 04:03 (twenty-one years ago)

i put it at warriors -- before, i woulda said i, assassin but i've become too fond of that one to mark it as the jump-the-shark rekkid. since i'm not too much into his industrial stuff, i kinda think that he's gone for good (at least as far as i'm concerned).

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 17 October 2004 04:08 (twenty-one years ago)

others:

REM -- green used to be the one where i'd pin the blame, though now i really think it was document, precisely b/c "finest work song" sounds like U2.

U2 -- they jumped for rattle and hum, came back w/ achtung, baby and zooropa, then disappeared COMPLETELY up their asses.

david bowie -- i'm really tempted to say heroes, only b/c i think that station to station and low were his peaks and it was just downhill thereafter. which isn't to say that what immediately came after low was bad (not till tonight, anyway).

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 17 October 2004 04:12 (twenty-one years ago)

as for john foxx ... i've still only got metamatic, so when i get the rest i'll have an opinion.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 17 October 2004 04:15 (twenty-one years ago)

See, I'm more charitable than you. I would've said David Bowie jumped with Let's Dance. I liked Scary Monsters dammit.

Re John Foxx - many would say Metamatic is the peak. Some would say The Garden was the shark jump, but, again, I liked that one too. So romantic, but still very weird. My version had a book of poetry and photos in there! My sister read it and said, 'this is drivel'. You could see even then he was considering taking up a career in photography.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Sunday, 17 October 2004 04:19 (twenty-one years ago)

See, I'm more charitable than you. I would've said David Bowie jumped with Let's Dance. I liked Scary Monsters dammit.

oh, i like everything in b/w low and tonight. i'm being lawyerly and interpreting "jump the shark" as "reached the peak." and i think that bowie peaked at low. the rest of the berlin troika, as well as scary monsters and let's dance are fine -- just not quite as unbelieveably good as low.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 17 October 2004 04:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh I see. Once again I think I'm missing the central idea of the Shark Jump. It's... the best moment? the peak? The zenith? For David Bowie, in my stupid world, that would be Station to Station.

Damn someone explain what jumping the shark means once more.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Sunday, 17 October 2004 04:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I just did the unthinkable and scrolled upthread, where of course it's revealed that jumping the shark occurs when you know that a show has just peaked. So it's the high point.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Sunday, 17 October 2004 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i kinda always interpreted it as the moment when you realize "from this moment forward, this band/artist/tv show/etc. will deliver nothing but uncompromising suckitude"

for example, i fear the "just lose it" nomination upthread will prove to be a quintessential example, obviously Encore could be great, but it looks like this new single could be a definite sign that we're gonna get nothing but irredeemable crap from Eminem from now on.

Josh Love (screamapillar), Sunday, 17 October 2004 05:20 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe my definition is a little more forgiving than most - i don't think REM jumped until Around the Sun, for example.

Josh Love (screamapillar), Sunday, 17 October 2004 05:22 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post)
jumping the shark is most definitely not an artist's high point! the jumptheshark.com explanation is unfortunately really badly written, and it doesn't quite make the point they're trying to make. ignore the first sentence of the description, the one with "reached its peak," 'cause that's clearly not what they're trying to say. the third paragraph comes a lot closer: "the telltale sign of the demise." THAT'S what jumping the shark is.

it's NOT a tv show's (or a musician's, or anybody else's) peak.

it IS the telltale sign of the tv show's demise.

that's what we're looking for here, kids -- the moment when it becomes clear a musician has reached a point of suckiness from which there is no return.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Sunday, 17 October 2004 05:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks cuz. That's settled then.

the music mole (colin s barrow), Sunday, 17 October 2004 05:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, for me shark-jumping is losing your mystique and descending into likely suckitude everlasting. And with that I'll offer this sterling moment:

Janet Jackson unleashes her left puppy in front of the nation.

mottdeterre (mottdeterre), Sunday, 17 October 2004 05:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Huge inflatable balloon thingies hovering above your audience.

Good Dog, Sunday, 17 October 2004 06:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Jack White swaps Meg for Loretta

What is this about?

Michael Jackson's new face for Bad has to count for something in this regard.

sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 17 October 2004 07:59 (twenty-one years ago)

david bowie owns this thread. if ever there was a way to rekindle interest in their career, enter mr odd-eyed bastid. but of course, it's always seen as experimenting, rather than bandwagoneering, which he excells at.

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Sunday, 17 October 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

[The "Fab Five" lineup of] Duran Duran reunite, 2001. Prior to this event, the band were slowly gaining more and more credibility and respectability by releasing quite avant-garde stuff that seemed both of the moment and ahead of its time. The audiences at the shows were smaller than in the band's heyday, but at least the people going to the shows were committed and loyal fans who formed a tightly knit community of fandom. Then the reunion thing happens and the band goes from respectable to... well, it wasn't clear then, and it was a good idea just to give the whole thing a chance, but by the "reunion" album's release in 2004, the press the band were getting made it ever clearer that the band had stepped right into the whole "nostalgia act" trap that all the nonfans and fairweathered "fans" wanted it to fall into. The new material was, as always, quite spell-binding, but absolutely not comparable to 1997's Medazzaland or 1993's The Wedding Album, which were created by a band that actually wanted to evolve musically and creatively.

Plus, the whole "reunion" thing managed to succeed at doing something that nothing else has made me do -- I now hate every single person who was a fan of Duran Duran's back in the '80s. Yes, I hate every single one of them. Okay, wait -- there are a few exceptions I'm thinking about, but those exceptions were there at the concerts in 1999 and 2000 and were actually happy when the band played their newer material. Aside from that -- I. Hate. You.

Many Coloured Halo (Dee the Lurker), Sunday, 17 October 2004 11:05 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm really REALLY glad no one's said "john meets yoko."

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 17 October 2004 11:08 (twenty-one years ago)

John meets Yoko

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 17 October 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

You've jumped the shark when the lead single from your new album (or new greatest-hits album) is a cover.

Poor Harry Nilsson jumped the shark already in 1968 then :-)

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 17 October 2004 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm really REALLY glad no one's said "john meets yoko."

John meets Yoko

Yoko meets John, uh? ;)

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Sunday, 17 October 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

REM - Radio Song - KRS-One or the REM thing on the AOL Sessions on Winamp TV
Will Smith - Just the two of us
N-Trance - that stupid fucking Grease cover or whatever it was
Paul Barman - Cock Mobster - that's mostly rhymes from your old records. And you've only released 2 records at that point.
U2 - that wierd Satan looking get up Bono wore
LL Cool J - I Need Love
Snoop's porno
Creation Records - signing Oasis
Warp - signing Vincent Gallo
Phil Spector - icing some dude/producing Starsailor
Starsailor - working with Phil Spektor
Steve Albini - producing Bush's second album
Smashing Pumpkins - that video where he floats around looking like a giggly Pinhead
Marilyn Manson - Sweet Dreams
Busted - Thunderbirds theme
No Doubt - when the 4 to floor dance beats got involved
Bjork - that never-ending concert on Winamp TV
John Cage - 4'33
Robbie Williams new "persona" whatever the hell that is
George Michael - that newish thing where he just sings lazily over an aging dance track, flawless something-or-other
Cher - aircraft carrier labia strangling outfit video
Happy Mondays - editing Penthouse
The Stone Roses - Love Spreads
Nirvana - unplugged (go on argue, he's dead and he's not coming back and your a little whinging child)

Gribowitz (Lynskey), Sunday, 17 October 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Starsailor jumped the shark when they called their band 'Starsailor'.

Robin Geurts (Hyperdog), Sunday, 17 October 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

For Bowie, surely it's all that dancing and prancing in the streets with Jagger?

Kim (Kim), Sunday, 17 October 2004 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Looking more like Confield every day (hush you Draft suckers).

Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Sunday, 17 October 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)


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