RFD: Mozart - Eine Kleine Nachtmusik

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Can we talk about this? Like, what makes it so great? The theme is one of the most famous and memorable in all of Western musical history - but it's just the arpeggios of a I-V7 chord progression. Even if you were to argue that it may have been innovative for its time, by now, it seems like this should be the most obvious chord change and the most obvious thing to do with it - anyone with introductory theory knowledge should be able to write something like that, right? But people (myself included obv) still love it. Why? It seems to be taken as a given much of the time that the appeal of classical (or 'art') music lies in its melodic and harmonic sophistication whereas pop's charms lie elsewhere. But does this put the lie to that? (I know that there are modulations later on.) You could maybe argue that 19th and 20th century art musics did do sophisticated things with harmony and melody but this doesn't seem to in a really big way. A lot of pop songs, say "Blackbird", would seem to be more complex harmonically, maybe rhythmically and melodically too, than this.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:07 (twenty-one years ago)

For that matter, even in pop/rock, why do some seemingly-obvious ideas manage to work as well as they do? I don't mean a riff like I dunno "Come As You Are" (or whatever Killing Joke song they ostensibly ripped if off from), where it's just a few (5 exactly) notes but they seem like an original choice and placement of those notes. Or even power-chord punk songs necessarily. Or even something like "With or Without You" where the chord progression is so standard but the interesting parts come from what's laid on that progression. But something like the riff from "Heartbreaker" where he virtually plays a pentatonic minor blues scale note-for-note or even "Sunshine Of Your Love" - one of the 'legendary' rock riffs of all time - where it's more or less just running down that exact same blues scale but occasionally moving up instead of down. Why have these managed to endure more than something my middle-schoolers might come up with after I teach them a blues scale?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

(Or even power-chord punk songs necessarily. Or even something like "With or Without You" where the chord progression is so standard but the interesting parts come from what's laid on that progression.

To avoid misunderstandings, these are all examples of what I don't mean.)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't listened to this in years but this thread has inspired me to do so. I recall being more interested in the other (more melodically complex) movements than the super-famous first movement. Kind of like the way you get bored of the Big Hit Single on an album and start preferring the album tracks in the middle of side two.

I'll be back ...

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 24 November 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd forgotten how good the menuetto is ...

I recall how I always thought that the allegro (famous) movement is overly long ... seriously, there's not enough there to fill up 5-6 minutes. The main melody is repeated twice, the bridge in the middle is filler, the ending is very powerful.

For me, this compares well with "Sunshine of Your Love". It's a classic riff, blah blah blah ... but after the first thirty seconds I'm thinking "OK, I've heard the main riff, and now my interest is already waning". That's exactly how I feel about EKN. So neither song works very well, at least for me.

The rhythmic parts in all four movements of ETN are fairly nondescript. How boring it must be for the cellists -- so many repeated eighth notes! A song like "With or Without You" works despite its very basic rhythmic parts because those parts are the pulse of the song. Essentially, they are the leads, and the guitar and vocals tend to stay out of the way and only build up when they have to. The bass parts in ETN don't add much at all (menuetto excepted), leaving the "riffs" to carry the whole piece, a la "Sunshine of Your Love", and in this case, it doesn't have a significant effect on me.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 25 November 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

You know, the Allegro is built up in a sonata form, which means that there is some kind of formula how it is supposed to sound. The two main themes are supposed to being repeated in various guises.

That being said, I still prefer some of his minor key works, such as The Allegro from Symphony #40 or the slow middle part from his 23rd piano concerto.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 25 November 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I know, Geir. That doesn't answer any of the questions at all.

Actually, "With Or Without You" is the only one of my examples that I don't really get into you. But I still find it interesting. I sort of see your point about "Sunshine Of Your Love" but I still like it, even if it's just hammering a riff home until Clapton's solo.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 25 November 2004 01:02 (twenty-one years ago)

"I don't really get into." I don't know what that Freudian slip means.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 25 November 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.