Untimate Battles: Vini Reilly Vs. Mark E Smith

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Both Factory Records artist.

Both still making records with their same band for almost 30 years.

Both sort of ugly.

Both still make amazing music.

― Voodoo Child, Friday, 19 August 2005 23:45 (twenty years ago)

Vini Reilly all the way, UH!

I was daydreaming about a collaboration between Vini Reilly and Erlend Oye. Erlend's voice can be beautiful and frail, simultaneously, same as Vini's music.

― biz, Friday, 19 August 2005 23:50 (twenty years ago)

the hell does the fall have to do with factory?

― jimmy glass (electricsound), Saturday, 20 August 2005 00:16 (twenty years ago)

The Fall almost appeared on a Factory video compilation. But the Names did instead.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 20 August 2005 00:19 (twenty years ago)

mes doestn make amazing music anymore, and hasnt since 1982

it depends on a number of factors

ardwick, failsworth, harpurhey, cheetham hill, levenshulme

but, in a way, rochdale, bury, stalybridge

and, overlooked, bacup & rawtenstall

even todmorden

an understanding of these places, helps, in certain ways

why does yorkshire, not provide same?

― charltonlido (gareth), Saturday, 20 August 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)

the thing about todmorden, of course, is that it looks west, while it is east. but it changes, at different times

have you ever been, to east lancs?

― charltonlido (gareth), Saturday, 20 August 2005 00:27 (twenty years ago)

kamerads is a life encompassed.

― charltonlido (gareth), Saturday, 20 August 2005 00:28 (twenty years ago)

psychogeography a sinclairian london conceit

but the roses of red and white, so much to feel

― charltonlido (gareth), Saturday, 20 August 2005 00:29 (twenty years ago)

i live just off Cheetham Hill, and can confirm that it is a fucking grim area. nothing but old industrial buildings.

P.s. Mark E Smith everytime

― Daws (silver_rocket89), Saturday, 20 August 2005 00:30 (twenty years ago)

an understanding of industrial east lancs (and yorks, because forever intertwined) is a rare thing.

vr makes good music, but mes understoodl, as did shaun william ryder, in a different way

these streets, they're ours

― charltonlido (gareth), Saturday, 20 August 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

"as did shaun william ryder, in a different way"

oh bother. here comes the melon man.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 20 August 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)

Vini was really good looking at one point.

I'm pretty sure he invented the indie rock look.

― Never trust a dolphin, Saturday, 20 August 2005 01:26 (twenty years ago)

Oh, I always thought The Fall were on Factory Records because they talked about them in 24 Hour Party People and MES appeared in it.

Hmmm, You learn something everyday.

― Voodoo Child, Saturday, 20 August 2005 02:10 (twenty years ago)

ha! otm dolphin. don't know the fall or mark smith's stuff at all, but vini reilly is great -- would be hard to top him. i don't think he's ugly either.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Saturday, 20 August 2005 02:23 (twenty years ago)

Susan , you should get a Fall album! I recommend Grotesque!

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 20 August 2005 04:01 (twenty years ago)

MES all the way.

Although when I read the thread title I was thinking more about who would win in an actual physical fight than figuratively...

― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Saturday, 20 August 2005 04:09 (twenty years ago)

thx tim.-great to get recommendations, i'll probably pick that up this weekend. i've been on the verge so many times..

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Saturday, 20 August 2005 04:18 (twenty years ago)

I love M.E.S. to death, but Vini whumps 'um in the ring. Even if I'm probably more likely to play The Fall than Durutti Column. Vini gets the crown, a genius just that one tiny step above.

I recommed the "Rabid/TJM Punk Singles Collection" if it's even available anymore (I got it on CD maybe 2 years ago). Not only do you get to experience how amazing John Cooper Clarke could be with a real punk band behind his chatter, but you get to experience Vini Reilly in an early punk band called The Nosebleeds. It is devastating the way he does this riff that was obviously aiming for punk yet betrays it could only have come from the fingers of Vini Reilly. Need I also add that Rabid was Martin Hannett's record label? Yes Slaugter and The Dogs suck, everyone knows that, but that's no reason to let this compilation pass you by.

Manchester's finest, folks. Nothing less. Search also from this comp: Ed Banger "Kinnel Tommy" - a man yelling at a TV screen at his favourite team as they play football and lose. With a gorgeous guitar riff behind it. Hilarious.

― The Spiderwebbed Wilderness (Bimble...), Saturday, 20 August 2005 05:32 (twenty years ago)

I thought this would be a turntable battle...

MES would win.

― donut floccinaucinihilipilification (donut), Saturday, 20 August 2005 05:34 (twenty years ago)

It's a terrible battle, to be sure. Don't get me wrong.

And yes I know Morrissey used to be in the Nosebleeds too but since there aren't any surviving recordings of his time in the band you can't really get excited about it. Ho hum.

― The Spiderwebbed Wilderness (Bimble...), Saturday, 20 August 2005 05:39 (twenty years ago)

Next thing you know I'll start a Manchester music thread. Stop me NOW. Thanks.

― The Spiderwebbed Wilderness (Bimble...), Saturday, 20 August 2005 05:40 (twenty years ago)

I recommed the "Rabid/TJM Punk Singles Collection"

which also features Doesn't Bother Me by the Distractions, before releasing a single on Factory, then a bunch of material on Island, and a final self-released single through Rough Trade. There aren't many songs better then that, though 2 or 3 of them are also by the Distractions.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 20 August 2005 06:36 (twenty years ago)

Vini ain't fit to lick the boots of MES, who has, BTW, made at least a dozen great records since 1982.

For those upthread who are tragically unfamiliar with his genius, I recommend:

The Wonderful And Frightening World Of The Fall (1984)

This Nations' Saving Grace (1985)

Extricate (1990)

Shift-Work (1991)

The Light User Syndrome (1996)

The Unutterable (2002 or so)

The Real New Fall LP AKA Country On The Click (2004)

and, of course, any LP from 1979 to 1982.

― sleeve (sleeve), Saturday, 20 August 2005 14:32 (twenty years ago)

MES = overrated
VR = underrated

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Saturday, 20 August 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

Are you extremely familiar with the Fall's oeuvre, Maria?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 20 August 2005 16:25 (twenty years ago)

yes, very much so. i like vini reilly much better.

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Saturday, 20 August 2005 16:43 (twenty years ago)

vini reilly is underrated. mes is rated just highly enough, i think.

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 20 August 2005 16:46 (twenty years ago)

Reilly, pas question.

― Ian Riese-Moraine: a casualty of social estrangement. (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 20 August 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

Really? He's written lots of songs better than "How I Wrote 'Elastic Man'?"

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 20 August 2005 20:26 (twenty years ago)

I think Bordeaux is a better song then How I Wrote 'Elastic Man but it's apples and oranges, but it's a silly argument anyway.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 20 August 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I'd think so. Miss Sciarrino pretty much stole my response. xpost

― Ian Riese-Moraine: a casualty of social estrangement. (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 20 August 2005 21:13 (twenty years ago)

Nah, Jody's the one that nailed it for me.

― The Spiderwebbed Wilderness (Bimble...), Sunday, 21 August 2005 03:08 (twenty years ago)

oh i like mes better, i'm just sayin'. i'm glad he's rated as highly as he is, but there are so many moments in the fall's career where he's phoning it in and the band is workin' hard and outshining the fuck out of him.

― s/c (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 21 August 2005 08:04 (twenty years ago)

"Telephone Thing," for instance.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 21 August 2005 09:06 (twenty years ago)

(Oh wait, Smith doesn't get outshined there. My bad. Actually, I think some of the post-Scanlon/Hanley stuff is not so great, but I don't know as that MARK is the one being not so great on those albums.)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 21 August 2005 09:16 (twenty years ago)

Both great, but in a head-to-head Vini wins by virtue of being one of a kind, an original.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Sunday, 21 August 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

and MES isn't?!

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Sunday, 21 August 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

also in Vini's favor, Vini sometimes rhymes, while MES simply adds the phrase "uh" or "ah" the end of every sentence. Also, Vini's a much better guitarist.

They are probably equally unhealthy though.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Sunday, 21 August 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

And Mark E Smith is a better vocalist-ah.

― brg30 (brg30), Sunday, 21 August 2005 19:05 (twenty years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200/drp100/p120/p12062did6n.jpg
http://www.alessiopizzicannella.com/immagini/book2/richard_ashcroft.jpg

― ken taylrr has gone off the internet because of you (ken taylrr), Monday, 22 August 2005 00:18 (twenty years ago)

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