TS: Morrissey vs. Ian MacKaye

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

this thread topic came to me in a vision: these two are very similar.

both are irish.
both inspire chaste lifestyles, and (presumably) lead them themselves.
both inspire the sort of fanaticism that leaves followers as pale imitators, left with little more than clothing and catch phrases.
both are fundamental to understanding todays musical climate (especially 'emo')

but who is better? im gonna pick morrissey, because im much more comfortable with an aesthetic stance than a politcal one, but i think this one is up for grabs.

― JD from CDepot, Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

morrissey over mackaye, but minor threat over smiths.

― petesmith (plsmith), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:43 (twenty years ago)

I'm imagining the mashups as I type

"Such a little thing
Means JUSTICE BRENNAN CANNOT HEAR YOU."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:43 (twenty years ago)

They both influenced me more than is strictly healthy when I was younger. It's a tough call, but I listen to MacKaye more now so I'll give it to him.

― Don King of the Mountain (noodle vague), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

thats not an opinion, ned.

― petesmith (plsmith), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

I think I have more admiration for Ian's principles -- and he seems to be a bit more grounded that Morrissey, but they're both great.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:48 (twenty years ago)

I'll take the Complete Minor Threat over the Complete Smiths (if such a thing existed), Bona Drag vs. 13 Songs is kind of a draw and The Argument (hell, even The Evens) is better than You Are The Quarry. I'll give it to MacKaye.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:50 (twenty years ago)

Morrissey, just because he's got some semblance of a sense of humor

― rentboy (rentboy), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:50 (twenty years ago)

but aesthetic stances are political stances, JD! hi, by the way!

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

and yeah i'm obv. gonna go w/mckaye for minor threat alone

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

xxpost

MacKaye does have a sense of humour, in person at least. The press he gets wouldn't dare show that, cuz then the article would be tougher to write.

― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 13 October 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

ian mackaye, only because he hugged me when i bought an evens lp at his show earlier this year. morrissey would never do such a thing.

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

morrissey hugs people like mad, maria! they have conventions for it and shit.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

pshaw, morrissey hugs EVERYBODY WHO MAKES IT ONSTAGE AT HIS SHOWS!

xpost

― rentboy (rentboy), Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

SPIN: I've seen security guys at your singing sessions standing with their walkie-talkies and talking about "the hugging thing" and what they were going to do about it.
Morrissey: Well, in Houston, there was a woman reportedly shouting, "No hugging, no hugging!" and I thought, that's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. No hugging. Why not?
SPIN: Maybe you're giving them the hugs they don't get anywhere else.
Morrissey: I thought they were giving me the hug that I didn't get anywhere else!
SPIN: Well, you're both giving each other the hugs.
Morrissey: Yes, but my need's greater!

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

OK, how about this then? i dont like morrissey.

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)

that's fine, maria, but just know that lots of people say he's hug well

― rentboy (rentboy), Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

TS: Ian MacKaye vs. Eon McKai

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

i think i forgot to add that:

both are more than a little ridiculous.

sure, the personal is political, aesthetic stances are political (ahh Zack, english majors of the world unite). but the work of morrissey/the smiths is at least partially about the refusal of the world as a whole (im thinkin "pretty girls make graves", morrissey's celebate, lonely pose). Mackaye's, on the other hand, is about engaging the world on your own honest terms, which somehow implies there is a *right* way to live.

― JD from CDepot, Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:10 (twenty years ago)

um, no it doesn't (at least no more than "Meat Is Murder" Morrissey does). "your own honest terms" admits subjectivity.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

Ian put out the Void split lp and "can i say" by Dag Nasty so he wins.

― Ellis, Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:20 (twenty years ago)

haha, maria tessa sciarrino

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:25 (twenty years ago)

xpost
but what about MacKaye's relationship with independent music vs. The Smiths/Morrissey? I mean, "Frankly Mr. Shankly" is hardly a manifesto, nor is meat is murder. but in Dischord Mackaye has set up a template for fighting the grim, capitalist univerise with righteousness (i mean, jesus, look at Saddle Creek)

― JD from CDepot, Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:26 (twenty years ago)

everybody is arguably setting up a "template" with their actions, creating precedent. If you read any interview with MacKaye he acknowledges he's doing what he personally finds comfortable. He makes sure to phrase things on this subjective level, says he just wants to see people think about these things, not necessarily do what he does. Why would you have a problem with that? And if you still want to pull some "thinks he's so great" deal about MacKaye, you probably shouldn't do it on a TS with Morrissey.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

oh, please dont misunderstand, i have no problem with it at all. im not a MacKaye hater, im not a huge fan of the music but i really do admire his principles (i wish i had the same sense of ethics).

perhaps this isn't so much a Taking Sides as it is a comparison.

― JD from CDepot, Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

oh, i'll take sides: ian, no contest.

i find something compelling in everything mackaye's touched, like even egg hunt. i've always had an afinity with his music and his ethos. can't say that about morrissey. he's also handsomer than morrissey.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

Mackaye is touched.

― O'so Krispie (Ex Leon), Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:51 (twenty years ago)

Mackaye is interviewed in the new spin magazine, as one of the 20 figures that has most influenced rock in the time spin has been around. now, i cant quote this verbatim, but i remember him saying something along the lines of "i felt better when Clinton was put in office, because he wasn't a warmonger and George H.W. Bush was. of course, Clinton turned out to be a kind of warmonger."

which is true. and i agree with him. but i feel like there is something in the Morrissey stance that responds: "well, duh!" this sort of knowledge of the wicked ways of the world and the futility in trying to change it. the only refuge then becomes a very individualized aesthetic that one then tosses to the wolves like a bloody steak.

but then again, maybe not.

― JD from CDepot, Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:56 (twenty years ago)

...my opinion of Morrissey (er, his music, not his being) is pretty awful, so the EggHunt single, alone, gives MacKaye a huge win for me in this contest.

― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 13 October 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

morrissey is a moaning pessimist, ian is a screaming optimist.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Thursday, 13 October 2005 17:04 (twenty years ago)

morrissey is the far supperior lyricist and is in many ways more interesting. but mckaye has a better record of actively influencing kids for the better and concretely influencing the music industry and community.

balls

a side has proven harder to take than i thought, but i'm going to stick with morrissey. if only for having an effect on many different levels.

and i won't support you are the quarry, but the evens are are just useless.

― bb (bbrz), Thursday, 13 October 2005 17:10 (twenty years ago)

Other reasons Ian should win :

"Repeater".

He briefly played bass in Nig-Heist.

― Ellis, Thursday, 13 October 2005 17:15 (twenty years ago)

Ian MacKaye simply because I like both Fugazi and Minor Threat more than The Smiths or Morissey solo. Both of them are admirable enough in their dedication to their ideals, but MacKaye's music just does more for me than Morrissey's.

― Schade (Schade), Thursday, 13 October 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

ts: apples vs. oranges vs. who cares they're both fruits!

ian made it cool/acceptable to not be into drugs and alcohol.

morrissey made all the macho assholes feel uncomfortable.

hmm... who to pick?
m.

― msp (mspa), Thursday, 13 October 2005 18:10 (twenty years ago)

This is like the Smurfs vs. ET.

― O'so Krispie (Ex Leon), Thursday, 13 October 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

That can be taken several ways.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 October 2005 18:24 (twenty years ago)

You know what, I'll bite: Minor Threat are not very good.

So Morrissey by default.

― [email protected], Thursday, 13 October 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

ahh finally, someone said it...

― JD from CDepot, Thursday, 13 October 2005 19:06 (twenty years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.