R.E.M. Find the River. Your thoughts.

I've always considered "Find the River" to be one of the weakest songs on AFTP.

"I had the idea that Bill and I would go in and do some harmonies without listening to each other. It’s great because mine is this incredibly angst-ridden emotional thing, and Bill’s is this really low-key sort of ambling part. They’re two opposite ends of the spectrum but they’re both on there, and it’s a beautiful thing.” (Mike Mills)

I liked "Endgame" at the time, but now I find it to be a bit of a trifle.

"LEEEFT ME ALOOOOOOOONE...WHAT IT'S DOIN' TO MEEEEEEEEEEEE"

Isn't there a chord change there?

Man, that band could have been truly great.

IMHO,REM have a 25% success rate with their songs

Oh, I dunno. I think they did all right for themselves.

The point I failed to make was that they would be a really great band if you stripped away the filler.

They have more 'great' songs than most bands.Timeless too.
REM have sold more units than any band I like

Not even aware of 'texarkana' though which shows you what a sloppy fan i am> Which album? I lost interest with Monster . Bought one or two since but they failed to engage me

It sounds like driving through the south in rain.

Driving through the south in the rain is possibly different in TX or Athens Ga to where i come (Hull, England)from but I will do my best to envisage when I drag the track out.

Austin Tx rules btw imho etc etc EMOs!!!!

It is often said of great artists, writers, anyone - that they arrive at the truly great stuff, the stuff on which their legend is made, only through a rigorous process of discarding a whole lot of crap that the consumer or the legend-maker never gets to see (or chooses to ignore). It just so happens that, the pop business being the insatiable machine it is, more of the subpar stuff sneaks through nowadays. :-) If you boiled R.E.M.'s best down to its very essence (importantly, that list is different for everyone, as we're learning here), they are hard to surpass.

Funny: I listen to Out of Time far more than Automatic... these days; it's an easier listen. Although I never want to hear "Everybody Hurts" and "Man on the Moon" again, the back-to-back sequence of "Sweetness Follows" and "Monty's Got A Raw Deal" are Murmur-era poetry with Document-era clarity, and for reasons I can't fully fathom, deeply, mysteriously moving now that I'm past 30.

I agree that you have to take an artist's body of work in full context, warts and all, rather than just returning to the worn old chestnuts time and again. I was mostly attempting to find a common cultural precedent for Jessie's comment ("they would be a really great band if you stripped away the filler") and suggesting a theory for how "canons" are determined, rather than endorsing the same as a sound approach to evaluating a band's "importance."

There are a number of bands whose mistakes and toss-offs I actually prefer to the more widely-stroked stuff. I think most of the innovation happens in those moments when people aren't "looking."

And I agree, the closer one gets to 30 (and beyond), the more resonant a lot of music becomes. On the one hand, I have an attention span about *this* long for pop trends, but I've bonded for life with so much more.

But my pet favorite is "New Test Leper." And I like "Find the River," though not nearly as much as other folks. "Nightswimming" is a bit too much for me now, but... it is their best song.

West Of The Fields (not one of the best tracks on Murmur, which still means it's brilliant. One of the more strident songs on there, but still mysterious. A fine, punchy closer.)
Little America (again, a more straightahead, rockin' tune. Not one of the albums best, but drives the album to a exciting conclusion)
Wendell Gee (Great song and the first of REM's downbeat closers, which suits the album's mood to a tee)
Superman (The most fun REM album closer evah!)
Oddfellows Local 151 (The weirdest, most angular album closer. The long, tortured fade out is a very effective way of going out)
Untitled (More of a goofy throwaway, with Buck on drums and Berry on guitar. Sweet Mike Mills melody)
Me In Honey (Great two chord rave up about parenthood. It's both adult and youthful, so represents a mid-career watershed in a sense)
Find The River (Beautiful, reassuring - perfect closer for the album)
You (Cos of the two lumpen rockers that preceed it, the song seems buried away somewhat. It's the weirdest REM song of the 90s though. Nice skronky geetar from Buck)
Electrolite (Lovely, and as someone pointed out elsewhere, had they split up after this, it would have been a great epitaph: "I'm not scared, I'm out of here."
Falls To Climb (I really like this one, even if it is a bit woe is me. When the snare pattern comes in Stipe gains confidence, to moving effect)
Beachball (Fussed over languid Beach Boys go bossa trifle. No tune. Yo La Tengo do this sort of thing sooo much better)
Around The Sun (never heard it - can't imagine it's much cop)

Also, I'm still convined that "Me in Honey" is only two chords.

A bit too much how? In a good way or a bad way?

Come on, the Internets wants to know! :)

"These things, they go away...replaced by everyday."

That gets me. Every time. Like now.

Stew: Oh good, somebody made the list! I'm kind of surprised how many total greats are on there, although I'm no big fan of "Wendell Gee" and frankly the "Untitled" track now seems to me like some sort of half-baked warmup for "Me In Honey," which picks up a similar vibe and adds so much more complexity and emotion. I remember liking "Beachball" okay though when I try to hum it I keep coming up with that pointless b-side "Emphysema." And like you I haven't heard "Around The Sun." But all of the others rank among REM's very best songs - hell, I would dig a career retrospective that ran something like:

1. Superman
2. Electrolite
3. Oddfellows Local 151
4. Find the River
5. Little America
6. Me In Honey
7. You
8. Falls To Climb

Short, and big on long fade-outs and so on, but somehow I think this captures them at their best in all their different modes without containing a single big hit (unless you count Superman)...

Hmm. I don't hear it that way. I hear it as "...replaced by everyday...nightswimming...remembering that night."

The difference is that "nightswimming" isn't part of the sentence. It's a one-word utterance, a kind of sigh.

I don't hear any of the satisfaction or contentedness that you hear. To me, it's straight-up melancholia and longing for how things were.

It's not "man, those were some good times, but I'm happy here and now."

It's more like "if only those things were my concerns now, instead of all the stuff that adulthood has brought with it."

"I'm not sure all these people understand." - He's surrounded by people who are happy where they are...I picture him at a party, where he's the calm, reflective center of a swirling mass of adult fun.

"I'm pining for the moon." - Anything that reminds him of that time, those nights.

Anyway, great song too. I wish we were in a bar or something so we could REALLY talk this to death. :)

"Me in Honey" really goes back and forth between I and bVII in the verses, though there's a "pedal point" on the tonic note, so it's not really incorrect to say that it's all one chord. The chorus does the same thing on the dominant.

Thing one: my wife wants this song played (or sung) at her funeral. It is the happiest song about death there is.

Thing two: the intro is sadly almost indistinguishable from the intro to Lisa Loeb song "Stay," and I think they were popular around the same time, which is unfortunate.

I'm with Justin - I see "Nightswimming" is about going back to something you did as a teenager - skinnydipping - for the first time in many years, and finding that a lot of the magic of it has been lost as you've grown up and have more to think about. But it's not saying that going back to it in adulthood is pointless, just that there's something missing.

I sent my wife an e-mail two weeks ago requesting this very same thing.

It's the closest thing I have to a will. (I should get on that.)

I guess I'm not hearing where in the song the present-day nightswimming is some sort of letdown or has something missing. Note the opening line of the first two verses - nightswimming deserves a quiet night. Not a rowdy night with the thrill and fear, a quiet one - it's what the swimming deserves...

This is, of course, in large part due to me overlaying my own Athenian nightswimming experiences, and while I'm not exactly at the point of middle-aged reflection, after a couple years and a lot of splashing mania, it's interesting how quickly I find myself at skinny-dipping orgies "laughing quietly, underneath my breath" at all the first-timers and their self-conscious celebration of their liberation or what-have-you. I don't begrudge them their newness to it all, but I also feel like they're on a different kick from me some nights, where I'm just enjoying being in the water, taking in the stars etc and then all of a sudden a posse of sexed-up drunkards takes over the pool. You just have to chuckle and shake your head. "You I cannot judge."

Me, my thoughts are flower strewn
Ocean storm, bayberry moon.
I have got to leave to find my way.
Watch the road and memorize
This life that pass before my eyes.
Nothing is going my way.

The ocean is the river's goal,
A need to leave the water knows
We're closer now than light years to go.

I have got to find the river,
Bergamot and vetiver
Run through my head and fall away.
Leave the road and memorize
This life that pass before my eyes.
Nothing is going my way.

There's no one left to take the lead,
But I tell you and you can see
We're closer now than light years to go.
Pick up here and chase the ride.
The river empties to the tide.
Fall into the ocean.

The river to the ocean goes,
Afortune for the undertow.
None of this is going my way.
There is nothing left to throw
Of Ginger, lemon, indigo,
Coriander stem and rose of hay.
Strength and courage overrides
The privileged and weary eyes
Of river poet search naivete.
Pick up here and chase the ride.
The river empties to the tide.
All of this is coming your way."