Music Magazines 2006

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Which are, according to you, the most influential and cutting edge music magazines these days? The Wire? De:Bug? also outside the British-American axis...

BT

Beltempo (urfaust), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 13:24 (twenty years ago)

The word is "oxymoron."

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 13:27 (twenty years ago)

gosh, you're cruel...or just realistic?

Beltempo (urfaust), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 13:28 (twenty years ago)

i know what to do! hey kids! we're talented writers! we love music! LET'S PUT ON A SHOW!! there's a platform in the barn we can use as a stage! auntie al can make costumes on her sewing machine! charge a nickel for admittance! all the neighborhood kids will come!

m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 13:34 (twenty years ago)

As I said recently, I cannot remember the last occasion when I was actually moved to buy or even listen to a record on the basis of reading something in a music magazine.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 13:47 (twenty years ago)

Seriously as a lifelong reader of music magazines I stopped reading em several years ago for I suspect many of the same reasons. And in the two years I've read ILM, music magazines just seem that much more redudant and/or pointless. Can't afford to buy much music these days either but I'm listening to more than everbefore via an online subscription service and ILM is the source of all my tips & leads.

I'd still pick up a new music magazine and check it on the newstand.

m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 13:55 (twenty years ago)

Juggs

meth lab for doug flutie (sanskrit), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 13:55 (twenty years ago)

"redudant"

m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 13:59 (twenty years ago)

Call me hopelessly retro but I gotta disagree a bit. Just a little bit.

I read about African, Caribbean, and Latino music in The Beat magazine, out of Los Angeles but with contributors worldwide. Perhaps I am not looking online in the right spots, but I hear about music there that I do not read about anywhere else, online or on paper. And yes, I then buy some of that music.

Although I did not buy it, a recent issue of the NYC based publication Fader that I looked at at Borders had a wonderful feature article on Jamaican dancehaller Baby Cham, and great photos by musician/writer Ned Sublette of Mardi Gras Indians in New Orleans.

curmudgeon (DC Steve), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 14:08 (twenty years ago)

There have been various threads published over the years here that have discussed The Wire--pros and cons(is having a dub column really 'cutting edge'; uneven hiphop coverage, etc)

I just can't seem to find any of the threads...

curmudgeon (DC Steve), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 14:20 (twenty years ago)

The Wire is so dull and dead I don't even bother flicking through its pages in the newsagent's these days.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 14:21 (twenty years ago)

Decibel is the only magazine I love right now. But I also can't find most music magazines where I live, so it kinda wins by default.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 14:23 (twenty years ago)

And Decibel even has people like Rod Smith reviewing Tod Dockstader and stuff, so I don't really need The Wire.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 14:24 (twenty years ago)

Every issue of Wax Poetics I've picked up has good writing about interesting music. New issue has part two of the David Axelrod interview and a Blue Note records retrospective, wonder if it's in the store yet.

Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 14:29 (twenty years ago)

There's great writing in Plan B (and lots of self-centred and too-sparkly stuff, too), which has resulted in me buying some albums for sure.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 14:31 (twenty years ago)

is sound collector still a magazine? i used to like that one.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 14:33 (twenty years ago)

As far as big mainstream music coverage you can't beat Blender. I'm interested to see what the Source is like out of Benzino/Mays hands. XXL has decent coverage. Murderdog of course for interviews. Scratch for nerdy beatmaker coverage and good interviews. Ozone has some good stuff. Should I be reading Vibe regularly? What jazz magazines are good any more? Down Beat was zzzzz last time i read it.

deeej, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 14:36 (twenty years ago)

There's a debut issue of the Latin Source on the newsstands. It's half in Spanish, half in English, and yes for some reason has an interview with Benzino!

I just let my subscription to the Vibe lapse (I had gotten it real cheap). An occasional interesting article on r'b'b hitmakers or producers and a nice but short Rob Kenner dancehall column were not enough to keep me interested. Plenty of ads and fluff.

Jazz Times ain't bad.

curmudgeon (DC Steve), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 14:46 (twenty years ago)

As I said recently, I cannot remember the last occasion when I was actually moved to buy or even listen to a record on the basis of reading something in a music magazine.

Neither can I. Is there a thread that addresses this (as in, "what was the last time etc etc")?

DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 15:17 (twenty years ago)

What jazz magazines are good any more?
WAX POETCS, PEOPLE!

Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 15:27 (twenty years ago)

The Wire is so obscure-focussed now it makes a mockery of claims to be truly cutting edge, its filled with just as many retro-acts as say, the NME, its just they happen to be plagirising the avant garde rather than postpunk rock music or whatever...

Are there any decent music magazines in the UK? That arn't OMM middle brow todge or indie-zine scenester-ing??

gek-opel, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:09 (twenty years ago)

WAX POETICS is awesome. Their recent two-part interview with the Mizell brothers was great. I wish it were available at more than just a pair of out-of-the-way record stores where I live.

Terrible Cold (Terrible Cold), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:16 (twenty years ago)

really? i mean i write for the wire quite a bit so maybe i'm just being defensive, but putting phill niblock on the cover of the march issue--while admittedly retro in an avant-garde sense--was pretty punk rock, i thought. it's like, we don't care if we sell issues--we're going to put a photo of a 70-year-old guy on the cover who makes massive 30-minute epic drones and isn't even famous as a composer in his own city (compared to people like la monte young or philip glass). i really like niblock--if it was my choice, i would have put him on the cover too. he deserves to be on the cover of a magazine.

geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:34 (twenty years ago)

I agree with you to some extent, Phil Niblock makes fascinating music, true. However, whilst it appears to be a heroic gesture of content (phill niblock is interesting in terms of his music, sure) over image (he looks like a dowdy 70 yr old in a dingy coat- altho he's in admittedly good nick, yes?)to be honest its not very brave in terms of the audience of the wire itself, is it? I imagine sales are 90% thru subscription anyway (that is pure supposition, feel free to correct me). Its been pushing in a certain dry, funkless, obscuro-avant direction for some time now, edging out any sense of black (non-jazz) or more populist music. Also its definition of "avant garde" has slipped from "cutting edge" to "obscure and a sound-a-like of something which was formerly cutting edge 20-30yrs ago". Also why was Edan on the cover a month or so back??? He's neither cutting edge nor interesting in any way... Why is there a dub column that is only relevant on the rare occasions it seemingley randomly picks up a dubstep record? Where the hell has the dubstep/grime coverage been? Why has it fallen hook, line and sinker for New Not-very-weird America when its as retro as moden indie, merely with different source material?
I must add that I read Wire every month tho, it has much more actual writing in it than any other magazine I have found (ie- its not a bloody comic!) and is largely free of the smugness which infests print music journalism.

gek-opel, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 17:45 (twenty years ago)

hey, i agree with you. i don't like edan either and i was sort of mystified when they put wilco on the cover, too. i figure if you're going to go the ancient composers route, go all the way--only do cover stories on anthony braxton and derek bailey (even though he's dead now) and the rest. that would be hardcore. why bother with these bands who make what's basically fairly trad rock music? i like their retro jazz type pieces--there was a good one on ornette coleman some issues ago.

i don't have a subscription to the wire and i only read it at the newsstand--i always read sherburne's critical beats column, flip through the electronica, hip-hop, and outer limits columns, and then look at whatever features seem interesting. i agree with you about the dub column; i think freeman was on a one-man-crusade to convert that into the doom metal column or something, which i thought would have been interesting.

i've been liking arthur a lot lately, even though they jock that new-weird-america tip that i'm not into. i don't like devendra banhart and most of his crowd of psych-folk musick. please god, make it stop. but some of their features are really interesting. it helps that arthur is free in new york and the wire costs $10 at the current exchange rate.

geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:08 (twenty years ago)

I love the Wire, in fact I would still subscribe if it wasn't $100 for a subscription in the US. Can't they drop-ship or print some in the states or something? Surely half of their readership is in the US (maybe I'm crazy)? I have not a single beef with the coverage, just that I finish reading the whole mag in about two days.

Why does everyone always pick on the dub section?

The guy who did Sound Collector is one of the guys who does Arthur now, I think. Speaking of, Arthur is a great magazine. big xp.

mcd (mcd), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:12 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, metal along with drone, dubstep, grime, (and D'n'B??? there's a guy somewhere mounting a campaign against P Sherburne to get him to cover som D'n'B... lost the link...tho... there was something on Dissensus I believe)...These things seem to slip thru the cracks, especially as in the case of underground metal and the dublate culture stuff its really kicking off in a way which needs covering, it needs editorialising to some extent... or is it the case that these scenes are amply covered by net-based media, and that The Wire has repositioned itself to cover the dustier end of the avant garde spectrum as a deliberate move to maintain sales??? (which tho tiny in each country individually will be respectable globally...)

gek-opel, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:18 (twenty years ago)

the dub section is picked on because its 90% re-issues. Its not as if pure dub (which is mainly what is covered) is on the cutting edge of anything. It USED to be, but it is no longer. Ought they devote that much regular coverage to soul-jazz records dub reissues every month??? Thats the main issue, I think, not that its badly written or anything.

gek-opel, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:21 (twenty years ago)

Why does everyone always pick on the dub section?

-- mcd (srmcd...), March 28th, 2006.

It's just so retro (and yes I like it), plus it seems odd to ignore current Jamaican dancehall sounds.

curmudgeon (DC Steve), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:24 (twenty years ago)

i do cover some dubstep in my column - part of the problem is that i hear very little of it, almost no one (asides tempa) sends me any, neither SF or barcelona are particularly hotbeds of dubstep retail, and i don't have all day to spend downloading stuff. as for D&B, i'm admittedly not a huge fan, so no need for a big campaign. last D&B i covered was a microcosm comp, i believe. if i heard more current stuff, i might change my mind... i did get some stuff sent to me a while back by subvert central, which i know jess champions, but in the end it didn't blow me away, AND i didn't feel like i knew enough about current D&B to say what made it stand out or not. but the wire could certainly use some other writers, probably UK-based, to cover more grime/dubstep and jungle.

philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:25 (twenty years ago)

wait, not microcosm. offshore? there's some relationship there but it escapes me.

philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:28 (twenty years ago)

I read your column all the time and on a personal note I'm glad you don't cover d'n'b because I fucking hate it.

jimnaseum (jimnaseum), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:34 (twenty years ago)

Decibel is the only magazine I love right now.

Me too. dB knows its audience so unbelievably well, does some real reporting, and really hits on the geek aspect of metal, too. Plus, it's funny.

Je4nn3 ƒur¥ (Je4nne Fury), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:39 (twenty years ago)

I like Arthur! I always think of it as more of a newspaper thingy than a magazine though. and i like it even though i don't care about all the people they have on the cover and all that freeekfolke stuff that much. i mostly like it for that back and forth review thing between the two dudes and the thurston & byron reviews. even though i will end up hearing next to none of it. actually, that's sorta my problem with the wire too. i could never afford to buy 99% of the stuff they cover. which, i guess, is why ilm IS kinda handy, cuz if people go on and on about one thing long enough, i might actually take a chance a pick it up. sometimes this works great!(kompakt stuff, isolee, a frames, devin the dude) and sometimes not so great (junior boys, xiu xiu, avalanches). the wire overwhelms me. option used to overwhelm me like that years ago.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:39 (twenty years ago)

Decibel doesn't play dumb! jeez is that a rarity with a new magazine. that takes guts these days.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:40 (twenty years ago)

i could say the same about some other metal magazines too though. genre mags have it a little easier than more general interest music mags.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:41 (twenty years ago)

It's weird that on a forum filled with music writers you find so much apathy about music writing.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:41 (twenty years ago)

Or maybe it's apropos, I don't know.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:42 (twenty years ago)

Philip- I wasn't personally disparaging your column- for what you set out to cover its perfect (ie predominently 4/4 dance music of the post minimal variety), and I personally couldn't give a toss about d'n'b... and you do cover dubstep, its just as you yourself say is it really your place to be doing so?? I mean it need to be placed in its poper context... quite why they don't get Martin "Blackdown" Clark to write a "dublate culture" column I don't know...
Also I don't suppose they'll be any in-depth interview/feature type stuff on any minimal producers... I know there was a pice on sleeparchive... one on Villalobos would be good.... liklihood~?

gek-opel, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:42 (twenty years ago)

"It's weird that on a forum filled with music writers you find so much apathy about music writing."

who is apathetic here?

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:46 (twenty years ago)

I like Hua Hsu's work in the Wire for hip-hop coverage although it generally doesn't seem any more adventurous than some of the hip-hop coverage in say the New York times. I'd rather just read his blog (and do).

deej..., Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:47 (twenty years ago)

the new york times' hip-hop coverage is pretty adventurous! especially for such an ordinarily staid publication! i think kelefa does a really good job with that.

geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:51 (twenty years ago)

No Depression still maintains a great core of writers. Under the Radar covers Britpop particularly well, often in painstaking detail, but their proofing ain't always so hot. I still like SPIN as an outlet for investigative pieces, e.g. the French hip-hop overview and anything Jon Caramanica is responsible for; I'm not sure if this will continue to be the case under new leadership. Decibel gets huge props for its design/art direction. The mag is really appealing to the eye.

ng-unit, Tuesday, 28 March 2006 18:55 (twenty years ago)

It's weird that on a forum filled with music writers you find so much apathy about music writing.

what do you expect? print music journalism isn't in a golden era right now--it's going down the dumper, and fast. most of us who write about music can't afford to do it. i give myself another six months before i have to find another line of work. why do you think we've all retreated to music blogs and ILM to air out our thoughts and opinions on music? because we can't express them in print magazines and papers anymore, most of the time, at least not at a decent word rate. i agree that decibel is great, but only so many people can write for decibel. as far as i recall, arthur doesn't pay their writers--or if they do, it's a nominal sum. when the wire pays you it's more of an honorarium than anything constituting an actual paycheck. the entire spin editorial staff is at FOUR PEOPLE now--i know blogs that have a bigger staff than that! i've started writing for blender, but i can't say it's that fulfilling to write a 120-word record review. my blog gets as many hits per day as the average article in the voice music section. granted, i don't make any money off of it--i actually lose money doing it--but it's the only way i can keep sane in lean times like these. these are dark days, my friends. that's why some of the most talented music writers i know are getting the fuck out and doing other things, like law school.

geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:11 (twenty years ago)

"It's weird that on a forum filled with music writers you find so much apathy about music writing."

Haha. I just thumbed through our office copies of Blender, Spin and Source and thought about how utterly boring they all were. Blender, weirdly, seems to get much better toward the back, like they figure that the Maxim set is only going to make it through 30 odd pages and then give up, so they can have some decent content in there. Spin just gave me too much about the clothes and not enough about the music. I don't give a fuck what Karen O wears, or the middling discontent she feels. I want to know if the album's interesting, if their live shows are interesting. I don't need to be sold on image.
But I dunno. I'm 26, I've been working for a small market monthly rag for five years, and freelancing in little bits aside from that. Most of what seems to pay has nothing to do with music, but I slog through. For Spin, one thing that seems to hurt it a lot is that a) I'm not terribly interested in a lot of the breathless gossip stuff, and b) even when I am, it's three months old. Why should I give a fuck about obits from February in your April issue? And I know that's a function of deadlines and print times, but the reason that mags are post-dated is to make them seem cutting edge. Now when I read it, I get the vague feeling of deja vu and cluelessness. Spin reads more and more like some sort of print version of Vh1, at least up front. As for the Wire, I find myself not caring about half of what they put in there anymore (at the very least) because past a certain point, all of the minimal "avant garde" all sounds about the same to me.
So I end up reading ILM and blogs, along with local papers that cover artists around here, since I've felt less and less pull to go to national acts as they seem to have all devolved into the same boring indie wanks.
And it's not that there aren't great articles on music being written, or that I'm not hearing great new music all the time. It's just that I can't trust music mags anymore unless I know the name of the reviewer (and even then not always), and their features seem to all be about everything but music.
Frankly, I read Dusted pretty regularly, have a couple of blogs on RSS, and count on endless PR spam in my inbox to entertain me.

js (honestengine), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:13 (twenty years ago)

I like SKYSCRAPER. Every 3 months a nice think issue with lots of band profiles/features, and tons of reviews. Plus only music related ads.

nicky lo-fi (nicky lo-fi), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:15 (twenty years ago)

And even all these years later, I still like THE BIG TAKEOVER.

Terrible Cold (Terrible Cold), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:18 (twenty years ago)

Why don't the collective of music writers who can't express themselves at the mags and weeklies put together some sort of mega-zine and publish it? Or does it have to be for money to be worth doing? music blogs and ILM are a good way to spread information to fellow music writers and/or tastemakers/insiders, but what about that 15 year old kid? I know we all were that kid at one point, and magazines probably played a key role in most of our development as music-obsessives. Is it only worth doing as a profession?

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:20 (twenty years ago)

Geeta - Arthur is growing growing growing. Also, remember: throughout history, writers have never made much money. Why should we expect now to be much different? It's tough. So hang together, and learn to live with less if you can. (Easy for me to say, I know: I'm not a dad, I live in a first world nation, etc...)

Polyphonic - "Why don't the collective of music writers who can't express themselves at the mags and weeklies put together some sort of mega-zine and publish it?" -- That's what we've been doing with Arthur since 2002 (!)...

Scott - " i like [Arthur] even though i don't care about all the people they have on the cover and all that freeekfolke stuff that much." - Thanks for the kind words. Not sure why we (Arthur) get tagged so much in this thread with the 'folk' thing ... Our cover features for the last year have been .... let's see...

* Brian Eno interview by Kristine McKenna (the only one he gave to a US publication, btw; plus a wonderfully evocative appreciation of the great man by Alan Moore),
* an at-length M.I.A. profile by Piotr Orlov,
* Jon Hassell/Afrirampo/Sublime Frequencies/Alan Bishop concept issue cover,
* Animal Collective
* SUNNo))/Earth cover feature/dual interview by Brian Evenson,
* Delia Gonzalez & Gavin Russom cover feature/interview

so I dunno...

JayBabcock (jabbercocky), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:24 (twenty years ago)

That's what we've been doing with Arthur since 2002 (!)...

Yeah, I like Arthur. I wish there were more magazines like it to cover other points of view.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 19:25 (twenty years ago)

Yes, but I am omnivorous and would like eight or more of them, all covering different realms of sonic merriment.

Mallory L . O'Donnell (That Bitch Camille), Sunday, 30 July 2006 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

And it still looks great compared to say Grafik or Modern Painters. And I thought that the red diagonal looked kinda funny, but I doubt it'll last long. Nice use of Helvetica too.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Sunday, 30 July 2006 18:10 (nineteen years ago)

Most of these american mags mentioned I don't know. What genres do they cover? I buy Skyscraper and I'm familiar with The Big Takeover and thats it I'm afraid.

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Sunday, 30 July 2006 18:34 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know about Wire graphically speaking. The whole sans serif/white space/clean lines templated look it's got going on is a bit dated, feels like german corporate branding from 1999. I don't know exactly what I mean by that, but I'm tired of it anyway! They really straightjacketed themselves. The portraiture photography isn't bad, but that's all that they do. No visual interplay when something other than photography is used, it is treated as an exhibit, hung in white space, the sometimes messing with titles is never succesful or enough.
It's partly annoying because a lot of musicians are quite visual people or would be inclined towards some visual aesthetic yet when they're reviewed their album covers aren't even shown, allowing them no communication whatsover on the page. Never mind that the albums covers are highly practical things in and of themselves for simply recognising or identifying a record. The writers' summations and critiques are presented as the sum total of all that needs to be imparted to the reader in dry text in compartmentalised review sections. The visual presentation of the magazine reflects the contents all too accurately. I like the little box in Mojo where musicians draw a self-portrait and I like the commissioned illustration for the leader review, good or bad though it is, I like that they would do that.
Wire is more clinical in design than any medical journal I've ever read, it seeks to communicate visually nothing about it's artists and everything about itself.

Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Sunday, 30 July 2006 19:03 (nineteen years ago)

But I LOVE how clean it looks. The portraits on the cover can be AMAZING. And while I kindof agree with you about album art it also looks amazing when there is one page of just text facing a page of full colour photography beautifully reproduced. I think it's supposed to look art gallery ish. I hate the way Mojo is designed. Another nicely designed magazine is the Irish indie magazine Foggy Notions.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Sunday, 30 July 2006 19:08 (nineteen years ago)

Oh I'm not a fan of Mojo's design, I was just picking up on the fact that mag with over all average design has these two elements that add to the experience of the artists etc.

Art galleries are usually visually negative spaces that even try to hide light sources, never distracting the viewer from what's being displayed, there is no ambivalence, they are exercises in objective presentation. For the presentation of a portrait photograph in a magazine that's wonderful, you engage with the picture, there are no sidebars, pull quotes etc.
But the magazine's about music, and the treatment of text is alienating, it's presentation, like a gallery's, puts it in an objective role. It discourages scrutiny of the writing. The ads and the charts pages seem the most visually exciting things going on on the pages. The magazine isn't visually questioning, it presents. The album cover piece is a really nice idea, but the actual graphics are too small, especially compared with the sometimes oversized portraits. I'm looking at the July issue and alonside the cover photograph of David Tibet, there are 3 full page portraits 2 of which are David Tibet. How many times do you need to see him? They do it because they don't like placing photographs in the text and it's the only way they can break the text up due to to there adopted design rules. End result is just puzzling at the very least. Do people cut David Tibet out and stick him on their bedroom walls? I doubt it.
At least they tidied up their bitstream section, now it feels like the news bit in the Economist
I think I'm being over analytical about it but if one magazine invites analysis it's the Wire.

And Foggy Notions is nice for a multitude of reasons, they did well. Nice nice nice.

Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Sunday, 30 July 2006 19:53 (nineteen years ago)

I don't agree at all. Okay, yeah, maybe I don't exactly need 3 A4 photographs of David Tibet, but it is nicely UNDERdesigned in a way. It says, THIS is where we put the text and THIS is where we put the Photographs. It is nice when you compare it to the overdesigned distracting mess that most magazines turn in. There are lost classics like Ray Gun which was mental and incoherent but ambitious and had moments of greatness. The Wire at least opts away from many design conceits that have become almost dogmatic in their omnipresence. It has an elegant linearness that I find admirable. A lot of magazines try the same thing but by not taking risks that end up with the occasional daft design decision like the one you mention they end up with a lukewarm neutred version of what they are trying to achieve. I mean RES looks like a playstation magazine for Christsakes despite a wealth of visuals to work with... sorry.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Sunday, 30 July 2006 20:04 (nineteen years ago)

I know I haven't heard of most of the magazines people are talking about, but C'mon, you've seen Eason's in Galway too!

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Sunday, 30 July 2006 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

i still regularly dream about starting my own music magazine, even though great uncle boris would have to die and leave me his windfall first. or maybe i can scam some money out of bill gates.

i guess theoretically i have a "music magazine" now, but i'm always kinda waiting for my boneheaded schemes to get me tossed.

david allen grier (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 30 July 2006 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

re: "Arthur is OK if all you listen to is indie psych bands"

Even a cursory examination of Arthur's contents over the last four years would show you that the mag covers a LOT more than "indie psych" (whatever that is).

JayBabcock (jabbercocky), Sunday, 30 July 2006 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

oh yeah, here's my one piece of advice to all music mags: hire a good copyeditor y'all. seriously, half of the specialty/niche mags out there are practically unreadable.

david allen grier (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 30 July 2006 20:22 (nineteen years ago)

I certainly have, but then again they stocked Plan B which was strange. Tower in Dublin is always good for a mooch in terms of magazine design.

I think perhaps it's simply a matter of taste re: the Wire. Where you say "UNDERdesigned" I read overly-formalised and graphically neutered. I don't disagree with the overdesign of most magazines, even the ones that have high ideas about themselves. I especially don't like the trend for density of detail and ornamentation, with vines and flock wallpaper styles, it's getting a bit stupid. That said I think the Wire design and layout is not without conceit or dogma, I would tend to think the opposite. The design is dogmatic in so far as there is an underlying idea as to how to present their words and it's formal and sober and shan't be distracted from. The images cannot free associate in any way, they are always purely for depicting the artist, the subjects of the portraits do not interact, they are static, and only the setting is used to manipulate the language of the image. Rarely there'll be an artist at work type picture. There's nothing in the least risk-taking about the magazine, I've been reading it on and off for a few years (since 2000/2001 I think) and it can really really feel like a chore. They've not attempted any substantial changes in that time. I have to mark records I'm interested in with a pen to remember where they are when I scan back through it. If this was Circa or something I wouldn't mind, if this was a journal I wouldn't mind but even the Journal of Music in Ireland is nearly better designed.
The magazine I always feel does it right is StopSmiling, the chicago monthly. I always really liked just the adjustments in alignments of the text boxes and the page number boxes etc. It isn't in any way over designed but it's recognisable and does graphic and photography really well on the page. I think one of my favourite magazines is Carlos magazine, the Virgin Upper Class in flight magazine. They were kind enough to send me some copies when I asked. It's done on unbleached paper in blue ink, with lovely sketched illustration and gold or silver embossed high lighting. Carlos Magazine

Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Sunday, 30 July 2006 20:45 (nineteen years ago)

OK the portraits aren't as dogmatic as all that, and they are good, they're not as static as my impression don't lack as much interaction as I thought.
But I'm really talking about their context (ooh look, etymology and usage in alignment!)

The portraits would be great collected together in book form.

Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Sunday, 30 July 2006 20:56 (nineteen years ago)

Okay, you're starting to talk me around. Who did you ask to get a those Carlos issues? I'm having a look at the link you posted and it looks great, I'd like to get my hands on a couple. Not a music magazine, but Colors is amazing too. Have you seen it. It's like a load of those 90's political Benetton ads but taking up a whole magazine instead of a billboard...

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 09:57 (nineteen years ago)

i'd like to know what would be in Jess's music magazine.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 31 July 2006 10:32 (nineteen years ago)

i think Major Alfonso is otm about the wire's design.

i saw a very badly designed movie mag the other day. 'little white lies'?

Enrique (Enrique), Monday, 31 July 2006 10:36 (nineteen years ago)

i'd like to know what would be in Jess's music magazine.

Articles would suddenly disappear just as you went to read them.

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Monday, 31 July 2006 10:42 (nineteen years ago)

That site is one of the guys' personal site, I didn't realise. The publisher is one of these contract publishers that produce magazines for corporations. They do Sky magazine for BSkyB, which is nooothing like Carlos, and other company mags. They're called John Brown Citrus Publishing. I was designing/editting a magazine in Trinity and was hungry for ideas so I asked them to send a some copies, they sent two(I've certainly never flown Virgin Upper Class, never mind Virgin!). One of the things they do is the bunch the ads together in centre on glossy paper. The content isn't incredible or anything: articles about anything and everything. In flight magazines are meant to be fodder to keep the passenger distracted. But the design is really beautiful, makes the magazine a real object to appreciate, lovely blue line drawings, other illustrations are inky/gouachey.
I thiiinkkk I've seen Colors in Tower but I'm not sure.
Must take a look at it.

I'm often tempted to start sampling magazines off amazon and other net retailers. Tower carry a bunch of american titles but I find it impossible to justify buying them because of reasons people have given upthread. Under the Radar is one of the titles I remember. Also Venus (is that female orientated only?). They're also usually sort of late, and of course US tour dates etc. don't mean much to me.

The only mag I have an actual subsciption to is National Geographic, had it for years and years. I love the photography. I do however inevitably buy Mojo. I haven't opened Uncut in years and years, NME either. Word, and Bang (are they still going?) never interested me. I cannot stand Hotpress at all, and I know some Hotpress staff have posted here before, I apologize. The Wire I buy on and off, more on that off, particularly if there's a cover disc.

I don't buy cinema magazines, I read the newspapers and to be honest their reviewers can be very good or good enough(I like Philip French and Mark Kermode in the Observer and Peter Bradshaw in the Guardian) I can usually triangulate a film from the Guardian/Observer/Irish Times/Sunday Times and the trailer as well as the net.

Oh and I can't abide Q.

Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:16 (nineteen years ago)

Well, that was the idea I had gotten about Carlos from their website. I'm still gonna try and get a hold of a couple of issues. The illustration looked great and that is something I am particularly interested in.

They sell Colors in Tower? I hadn't checked but I had been under the impression that you coudn't get it in Ireland. It's only a quarterly and extremely expensive but the photographs are great.

National Geographic pisses me off. I can almost never get through a single article. I don't even find the photographs that interesting and the issue they did on Ireland made me very suspicious of what they say about other countries.

I have a supscription for The Wire (you get way more free CDs) and Colors since I thought you couln't get it here. I had always loved those Benetton ads and Colors has a similar vibe but doesn't have too strong an affiliation with the clothes label.

I like Mark Kermode too, but I also like Ciaran Carty, his opinions always seem to be his opinions, not for the sake of them. He doesn't agree or disagree with anyone else, just reacts to the film. Even when I don't agree with him, I get something out of his perspective which is my estimation of a good critic.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

Fully agree with you about Q as well. Ugh.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

It's perfectly possible I saw Colors in either the Gallery of Photography in Temple Bar or in the Douglas Hyde Gallery. More likely I'd say. The DHG has a funny little selection of journals and monographs that are very pretty.

Re: Net Geo. The writing doesn't interest me in the least, I don't think the photography is interesting in terms of advancing the medium but what it captures, they have the money to send photographers to interesting places for long periods of time. That Irish article was an abomination, but it was written by an associate editor or something I think, basically he needs to use flickr and not the magazine he works on, spouting shite about "celts" along the way.

Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:43 (nineteen years ago)

It may not have been the link you were looking for but the one you gave me for Carlos has a lot of interesting stuff on it. This soldering iron magazine drawing begs to be tried out.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

The transfers? I've heard of people doing that before, with irons, soldering iron is a good take on it. One method that I liked the look of was with polariod photo's you can transfer the image off them as they dry.

Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Monday, 31 July 2006 16:42 (nineteen years ago)

Oooh, nice.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 16:45 (nineteen years ago)

Plan B is okay, they don't really cover much outside indie/electroclash though. What was weird was when Easons stock Careless Talk. That used to look great too. I remember being really freaked out by this photo of Har Mar Superstar and a review for the Raveonettes as masturbation fantasy. Neither lived up to the way they were presented. I liked Whip it On though.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 17:25 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah I guess I was thinking more of Careless Talk than Plan B in Easons. Did Plan B come out of Careless Talk? I know CT was a limited thing, a projectwith 13 issues or somewhat. CT did look very good. Almost toxically indie though.

Never understood the Har Mar circus, didn't press my humour buttons or music buttons.

Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Monday, 31 July 2006 17:39 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, CT counted backwards saying that they wanted NME dead by the time they got to issue #1. Since the majority of the NME readership couldn't give a shit about journalistic standards this never happened. It had a similar vibe to Foggy notions in some ways, they used illustrations and (quite good ones too sometimes). And they published unsolicited submissions I think. And Bang was okay. They had a review for an Adult album that was hilarious once. There was one Har Mar song I really liked but I could never wade through all the prince knockoffs to figure out what it was. Wait, did he have one to do with a power lunch?

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 17:57 (nineteen years ago)

Major Alfonso, did you ever read Raygun?

Everything you hate about The Wire is what I love about it – that clinical layout, the divide between words and pictures. I love that text and images are so often separate, that I can simply read reviews or interviews or whatever directly without a bunch of photoshop wankery cluttering everything up because the art designer wants to show off....I love that there’s just so damned much to read and that realistically it’ll take me a lot of time to actually check every piece out, months or maybe years, something may not interest me right away or might seem alienating but it’s likely that eventually the reverse will be true. Thus I’ve never thrown an issue away, and never will.

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:15 (nineteen years ago)

I'm starting to disagree with the Wire as dogmatic. I think it just appears so compared to other magazines. It's just that the design concepts it sticks to don't take into account many things that seem to be dogma to every other magazine. The Herb Lubalin style layouts and that annoying thing I HATE where you pick out a piece of the text and enlarge it somewhere else. WHAT is the point of that?

Thanks Raymond. I thought I was the only one who felt that way. But I have to confess to being the one who was praising Ray Gun. Which I've never really read. (too young, missed it) but tracked down a couple of issues to look at after being really impressed with a few covers I came across in design books. The dinosaur jr. one stick out in my mind.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:44 (nineteen years ago)

Ha, Ray Gun was probably the most unreadable music magazine of all time. (And I say that as somebody who actually wrote for that ridiculous piece of shit for a while.)

xhuxk (xheddy), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:52 (nineteen years ago)

I'm just talking about Ray Gun from a design point of view.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 19:57 (nineteen years ago)

So am I! It was visually unreadable. An ugly mess. (I assume most of the writing was no better or worse than most other music magazines then.) (Actually, though, wasn't there another music magazine called Bikini back then that looked almost as bad?)

xhuxk (xheddy), Monday, 31 July 2006 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

No I never came across Ray Gun either, don't imagine it was easy to find over here even when it was going. I have seen Nylon which is the same guy, but I've never looked through it.

I don't "hate" the Wire and appreciate that people love its design and find it a joy to read, but I'm just a bit tired of it. Perhaps because it seemed like a magazine that promised more visually than I ever got from it.

The enlarged text extract is called a "pullquote", it serves two purposes.
The first being to emphasise to a browsing reader the tone or angle of a story by concentrating on something that the story turns on. Pull quotes, intros, headlines and subheadlines and images serve to draw a reader and introduce them to an article, the don't have to commit themselves to say 3,000 words of text without being aware of what it contains.
The second purpose is to interrupt the text visually. I'm sure you're take on the Wire means you won't agree with this, but it's taken as layout law that if the flow of text isn't interupted by something other than the page break then a reader who isn't committed to reading it in the first place is less likely to want to read it. If you have things to snag your eyes on, you can break the text up and navigate it more easily. I have no problem what-so-ever with pullquotes and I don't miss dreadfully them when they're gone.
Everything about Wire is tilted against the casual reader, that's the effect they want. It always seemed a little to hostile to me. The absence of pullquotes ties with that.

Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Monday, 31 July 2006 20:05 (nineteen years ago)

Damn! Another good point.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 20:08 (nineteen years ago)

Still, I hate pullquotes (thanks!) and will march the streets against them if necessary. When I have time. And there's nothing on tv.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 20:09 (nineteen years ago)

And I NEVER watch tv.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 20:09 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.beckbeckbeck.net/pictures/magcovers/1/cover_raygun1.jpg

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 20:15 (nineteen years ago)

It's good! I like the typography.

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 20:15 (nineteen years ago)

The articles were next to impossible to read. They'd squeeze them in sideways in the margins, make them look like photonegatives, wrap them around the pictures, all this dumb pretentious clusterfuck stuff like that. I've never felt more that a music magazine's art directors had contempt for the people who actually wanted to read the articles, as if the readers were illiterate and the words were subsidiary items that got in the way of the all-important artwork. As somebody writing some of those articles, it totally pissed me off.

xhuxk (xheddy), Monday, 31 July 2006 21:27 (nineteen years ago)

Most magazines are about flicking. People don't read Vogue either. Maybe that's what they were going for...?

from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Monday, 31 July 2006 21:30 (nineteen years ago)

Each month I read less and less of The Wire, each month it spins itself further and further into unreadably dull obscurity-fetishisation. It appears to lack any proper sense of editorial function, and feel for what it thinks is "going on". What the fuck happened to the elegantly written think-pieces? Or genre guides? Plan B is too smug to read,(too many bits where I want to string myself up- if I wanted that I'd read the bloody NME!) tho less dull (but more conventional)... sigh.

gekoppel (Gekoppel), Monday, 31 July 2006 22:05 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.cuddlecards.com/ccimages/brown_sugar_baby_hugs-1.gif

I think this should be an ilm stock image...

Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Monday, 31 July 2006 22:10 (nineteen years ago)

Haha. Like a cuddle version of O RLY?

gekoppel (Gekoppel), Monday, 31 July 2006 22:16 (nineteen years ago)

is ther no ilm stock image reference thread so they can be found easily?

Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Monday, 31 July 2006 22:18 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think so. The YSI "never forget" 9/11 parody image is another classic...

gekoppel (Gekoppel), Monday, 31 July 2006 22:27 (nineteen years ago)

I just finished the latest issue of Carbon 14. For the uninitiated, It's like wax poetics for those show appreciate B movies, porn, poster art, wrestling and testosterone heavy punk rock.


Uncle Tom (Uncle Tom), Monday, 31 July 2006 23:25 (nineteen years ago)

I just finished the latest issue of Carbon 14. For the uninitiated, It's like wax poetics for those show appreciate B movies, porn, poster art, wrestling and testosterone heavy punk rock.

-- Uncle Tom (to...), July 31st, 2006.

Remind me to get a list of their subscribers so that I can be sure to never invite them to parties.

Mallory L . O'Donnell (That Bitch Camille), Monday, 31 July 2006 23:33 (nineteen years ago)

plan b is shit now, i ain't even pitching them.

Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 08:39 (nineteen years ago)

mallory, it's nice to know your parties are devoid of fun.

Uncle Tom (Uncle Tom), Wednesday, 2 August 2006 23:46 (nineteen years ago)

I don't "hate" the Wire and appreciate that people love its design and find it a joy to read, but I'm just a bit tired of it. Perhaps because it seemed like a magazine that promised more visually than I ever got from it.

Wire designer James Goggin take a bow!

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 3 August 2006 02:34 (nineteen years ago)


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