How do copy protected CDs work?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
I can't quite get my head around how copy projected CDs work. I get how they can prevent them from being played in a computer, I think. But I have two CD players -- one in my living room and my Discman. Both are capable of playing MP3s and neither can read a copy protected CD. So now when I get sent a copy protected promo I have to dig my 6-year old Discman out of the closet, strap on a rubber band to keep the lid down, and listen that way. So why do my MP3-playing CD players fail to read the copy protected CDs? Is there something mandated by law in any MP3-playing device that disables the device if a copy protected CD is inserted? There is no way to copy CDs using these players but they still don't work and it makes on sense.

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 13:33 (twenty years ago)

well, quite often they don't.

boom boom etc.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 13:44 (twenty years ago)

My understanding, which is based on knowledge acquired five years ago when I still had the energy to get morally outraged about this sort of stuff, is that they work by creating a junk table of contents.

There's a regular TOC, which your ancient CD player will happily read. This TOC also contains a reference to another TOC elsewhere on the disk. Modern CD drives honour this reference and go wandering off down the disk to find this second TOC, only to find crap there and get hopelessly confused. Special software included on the CD is then needed to succesfully read this disk on a PC, and that special software can intervene to prevent nefarious activities. That software can't be installed on regular CD players. It's nothing to do with their ability to play MP3s.

Old CD players just don't see any TOC other than the first.

Like I say, this is old info and based on a hand-wavy understanding (at best). Doubtless things have moved on.

The UKCDR's page may be of use (http://ukcdr.org/issues/cd/) as may Fat Chuck's (http://www.fatchuck.com/z3.html)

Mike W (caek), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 13:44 (twenty years ago)

seriously: i was told the reason many new standalone CD players can't deal with 'em is because manufacturers such as sony use the same basic tecnology for their players and their PC CD drives, and something about that (but don't ask me what) means the CD thinks: "ah, i'm in a computer. FUCK THIS" and doesn't play.

x-post: yeh, that.

grimly "dr science" fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 13:46 (twenty years ago)

The big new technique, of course, is to have a CD autorun an installation program when you put it in your CD drive that then only lets you play the CD through a shell program, plus puts a resident program on your hard drive that monitors for the signature of that album being played by anything else and either runs the shell program or crashes the computer.

Another technique, an older one, exploited the fact that a CD actually contains like triple the amount of information it actually needs to compensate for read errors and worked it so a ripping program would get the noise rather than the signal. This isn't very technical I realize but it's early.

Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 14:50 (twenty years ago)

Try this:

Hold down shift key on PC
Insert copy-protected CD
Copy contents of CD
Burn new copy onto CDR
Play CDR in incompatible player

It's insane that manufacturers have resorted to breaking their own product in order to implement copy-protection that is so easily bypassed.

Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 16:20 (twenty years ago)

copy protected CDs are hybrid data/audio discs, as Mike W noted, with garbage written to the data & audio sections that confuses & crashes the computer (by doing this most copy protected CDs break the Redbook standard, and therefore by law can't put the Philips 'Compact Disc Digital Audio' logo on the CD)

regular CD players ignore the data section of the disc, and play fine -- mp3 players notice the data section of the disc, try to read it, find garbage, and freeze or crash.

some copy protection actually writes garbage bits into the audio portion of the disc -- little glitches and spurts of noise. audio CD players contain built-in error correction that filter out the noises when you play back, but if you rip or copy the disc, the computer faithfully copies over the glitches, so you get little full-code noise bursts in your clones or mp3s. but error correction doesn't always work, especially in discmen, cheap players or car stereos, so you'll often get dropouts or failures when playing back these discs in those players.

milton parker (Jon L), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 21:13 (twenty years ago)

Thank you for the info -- at least I understand what's happening now.

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 21:19 (twenty years ago)

re-reading some of Mike's links -- the glitches aren't written to the actual audio data, they're written to the error correction data, which is a seperate stream. but the effect is the same -- whenever the computer has to double-check a bit of data, it refers to the error correction, accepts garbage, and dutifully copies over a glitchy speck of noise.

from http://ukcdr.org/issues/cd/quick/:

Reduction in scratch-resistance with corrupted discs:

Some of the corrupt or modified CD formats achieve their aim of failing to play on computer CD-ROM drives by overloading the error-correction on the disc. Normally, the error-correction codes help a CD player to deal with scratches, fingerprints or any other problems on the CD's surface. The CD player can fill in over the problems by error-correcting, so that you don't hear the problem (unlike on a vinyl record player where you would hear pops or crackle). However, if the error-correction codes have already been overloaded to "copy-protect" the disc, then there is nothing left to deal with problems if the CD gets scratched at that point. This means that over a CD's life, as it suffers wear and tear, it is likely to stop playing correctly much sooner if it has been "copy-protected" in this way, and so it will have a shorter life-span.

Philips have backed up this technical point completely in their statements in this article.

milton parker (Jon L), Wednesday, 29 March 2006 21:46 (twenty years ago)

So, in addition to holding the shift key as suggested by one of the replies (by the way, does it mean that I have to hold the shift key during the whole cd burning process?), is there any other way to bypass this irritating mechanism?

A long time ago, I heard that coating the outer edge of the cd with a black marker will work. Is it true?

AngusK, Thursday, 30 March 2006 02:20 (twenty years ago)

Marking the outer edges was to get round the corrupt TOC, which is physically located there. Highly prone to error though, one would imagine.

Holding the shift key prevents whatever the CD is set to autorun autorunning (on Windows). The autorun usually installs some software to read the broken data (as Eppy describes). Holding shift will prevent this being installed, which should also prevent you playing the CD.

Doubtless there are some sufficiently brain-dead schemes where this still works though.

Mike W (caek), Thursday, 30 March 2006 08:54 (twenty years ago)

recently, the new EMI promos have this thing whereby to drop an album onto my Sony Flash player i have to do the following : 1. insert cd into PC - up pops an excess of legal mumbo jumbo - accept this to get the necessary licence files installed. 2. then you are given option to listen to the album via the inbuilt skinned player - or drop WMA files into your Windows Media archive. I do this - choose Lossless format. 3. I can now listen to the allbum via WMA .. but still wont x-fer into player. 4. cut cd-r version (the legal mumbo jumbo adviuses that the WMA files will allow me to creat 3 copies for whatever reason) from Windows Media 5. Insert cd-r version - suck into Sony Flash player now without problems - so i can now listen/review. cumbersome yes, but also, making me create a rip copy which i then dont need - hmm what a wonderful solution. make a copy for mates so i can listen/review an album ! madness.

mark e (mark e), Thursday, 30 March 2006 09:47 (twenty years ago)

doesn't matter what they say about not being able to copy cd's there is always the option of real-time recording (record as it play) no matter what technique they think of, it's already been bypassed. and any way, a cd that won't play in a cd-drive, technically isn't a cd. didn't philips threaten sony that they wouldn't let them use the compact disc logo on their rootkit discs?

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Thursday, 30 March 2006 10:06 (twenty years ago)

"there is always the option of real-time recording (record as it play)"

Record companies are working on this right now; God knows how, but they are.

Tim Rutherford-Johnson (Rambler), Thursday, 30 March 2006 10:57 (twenty years ago)

Holding the shift key prevents whatever the CD is set to autorun autorunning (on Windows). The autorun usually installs some software to read the broken data (as Eppy describes). Holding shift will prevent this being installed, which should also prevent you playing the CD.

This is correct, but it shouldn't prevent you from ripping the CD with a program like EAC. Maybe if you're trying to rip it with software provided by a company that's in bed with the record industry (Microsoft, Apple) it won't work, but why would you do that?

Though I haven't run into every copy-protection scheme out there, I haven't owned a copy-protected CD I couldn't rip. The last one that comes to mind is Sony's Johnny Cash boxset, The Legend. Ripped all 4 discs to make my own one disc version, no problem.

Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 30 March 2006 13:39 (twenty years ago)

I've never had a problem either. I just put them in my oldish iBook, pull up iTunes and import them.

Mike W (caek), Thursday, 30 March 2006 15:52 (twenty years ago)

So, older version of iTunes can bypass the copy-protection?

I have 6.0.0.18 and it's had problems with a couple of discs recently (Beck's Guero and/or Kraftwerk's Minimum-Maximum - can't quite remember); no problem with CDex on the desktop.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 30 March 2006 17:26 (twenty years ago)

The irony is that I'm not even trying to rip the CDs -- just listen to them on a store-bought CD player in my living room! And apparently I have to do something illegal to actually hear the music that I'm supposed to be reviewing.

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 30 March 2006 23:21 (twenty years ago)

in that case they are not audio cd's - i suggest a strongly worded letter to your equivalent of trading standards. or inform philips if it has the compact disc audio logo on it, they get rather cross if that happens.

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Friday, 31 March 2006 09:41 (twenty years ago)

I find my very old in-car CD player likes the new format HDCD (or is it SACD? Anyway, whatever the Nick Drake "Treasury" CD format is) much better than even old fashioned "normal" nocopyprot CDs.

mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 31 March 2006 09:46 (twenty years ago)

Weird... I've never yet bought a CD which I couldn't play (5 players of varying ages, 1 PC) or straightforwardly rip (CDex or iTunes). I feel almost left out.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Friday, 31 March 2006 10:26 (twenty years ago)

i bought one on wednesday that ripped to silence on two different work machines (and two different operating systems) but which worked fine at home. was most odd. cdparanoia gave me an odd look from time to time* but the output sounds fine. (Carpe Diem cd2)

that first spiritualized compilation is the only thing that's eluded me so far. i didn't buy the second.

* it uses different smilies to tell you how it's doing:
OUTPUT SMILIES:
:-) Normal operation, low/no jitter
:-| Normal operation, considerable jitter
:-/ Read drift
:-P Unreported loss of streaming in atomic read operation
8-| Finding read problems at same point during reread; hard to correct
:-0 SCSI/ATAPI transport error
:-( Scratch detected
;-( Gave up trying to perform a correction
8-X Aborted (as per -X) due to a scratch/skip
:^D Finished extracting

koogs (koogs), Friday, 31 March 2006 10:46 (twenty years ago)

I once bought a CD that my computer quite literally spit out -- I mean, it ejected the disc very forcefully and sent it flying across the room about 3 feet.

Obviously this was some sort of weird glitch, but I thought: wow, this could be a more awesome kind of copy protection, or at least a more spectacularly emphatic one.

brittle-lemon (brittle-lemon), Friday, 31 March 2006 12:34 (twenty years ago)

Michael Jones: I can't say whether older versions of iTunes are any better. I'm running the latest. I made mention of the fact that my iBook is old because it means the CD drive in it is old. 2001 or something.

FWIW, the iTunes version that was around at the time of Guero's release ripped my US copy fine.

Mike W (caek), Friday, 31 March 2006 13:25 (twenty years ago)

I've tried holding the shift key while trying to rip a song from my copy-controlled cd with Microsoft Media Player, but it failed at 7%, saying something like "the media has been changed".

I've tried coloring the outer edge with black marker, but it didn't work either.

I don't have any other song ripping tools, 'cos I hate those spyware that comes with them.

So, with my situation, is there any way that I can rip a song out of my cd?

DaanSavoy, Monday, 3 April 2006 03:35 (twenty years ago)

CDEX is my cd ripper of choice and doesn't contain any spyware.

Andrew (enneff), Monday, 3 April 2006 05:29 (twenty years ago)

You want to be holding shift from before you put the CD in the drive till about 15 seconds after - not during the song ripping process.

Andrew (enneff), Monday, 3 April 2006 05:30 (twenty years ago)

I've tried coloring the outer edge with black marker, but it didn't work either.

when you look at an audio / data hybrid CD, there's usually a thin stripe between the audio section and the data section. you have to take a marker and actually write a line through the data section (which is the outer ring) on the flat side of the disc, not the 'edge' of the disc. if you draw the line too far in, it'll have problems reading the audio as well, but you can also do this with scotch tape, or with a dry erase marker.

(on CDs the audio data is written from the center on out, unlike a vinyl LP)

milton parker (Jon L), Monday, 3 April 2006 06:30 (twenty years ago)

Exact Audio Copy is spyware free as well:
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/

Edward III (edward iii), Monday, 3 April 2006 20:14 (twenty years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.