The Forties

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We all know about the dramatic pop music upheavals of the 50s, 60s and 70s. And we can all remember first hand the 80s and 90s. But what about the 40s?

If the 50s was the decade in which r&b and country blossomed and then converged to create rock&roll; in which vocal harmony pop became doo-wop; in which the blues became an electric powerhouse and the basis of much rock to come, and in which gospel’s passionate vocal style combined with r&b to produce soul, then what were the defining characteristics of the decade that preceded all this? What were the great songs of that earlier decade? And was the 40s pop music which followed WWII significantly different to the pop music made during the war?

Or could it be that it wasn’t until the 50s that all the really interesting stuff started?

― neil, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

There was a revolution of sorts in pop vocal styles, no?

And does Jazz count?

― Tom, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

A good deal of the 40s was devoted to that war thing. After that, we had the development of bop, the foundation for most modern jazz. In America there was a record (ban/strike thing?) so a lot of the stuff during the war was 'go america!' kind of songs.

― tyler, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"does Jazz count?"

I'd say so, at least if it's popular-song-based, or dance-tune- based. Be-bop I'm not so sure about - wasn't that more of a specialist thing?

― neil, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Specialist in the way that it evolved out of competitiveness. Yeah, the music itself wasn't super-popular but it was there.

― tyler, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

BOB WILLS

― Ding Dong Daddy, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Thank you Tracer, you took the words right out of my mouth. so, uh, I'll use different words. Westeren swing, ladies and gentlemen.

― Samantha, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Electric mandolin! Where did this instrument go??

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Another name to throw out there: ARTIE SHAW

― Chris Barrus, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

And was the 40s pop music which followed WWII significantly different to the pop music made during the war?

There was a recording ban during much of the war. I don't know about a big stylistic change at war's end. The recordings Sinatra made at Columbia in the early 40s sound pretty old-fashioned. It wasn't much later that the Nat Cole Trio began making good records. Broadway musicals underwent a lot of development during the 40s, beginning with Oklahoma!. You just never hear much about mainstream pop development before the 50s, other than the usual line about Crosby realizing you didn't have to blare into a microphone.

― Curt, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

there were two recording bans in the 40s, one after the other

post-war sinatra and nat king cole were both on capitol, a new semi-indie label which considered itself very urbane and cool (i mean it was, too, but it deliberately set out be)

jump was the 40s predecessor of r&b

there was a MASSIVE surge of little proto-r&b labels in the late 40s, very small, family affairs

swing went INTO the war with big(gish) groups: the music AFTER the war was predominantly small group (six-seven max)

the screamier end of bop shades into the screamier end of proto-R&B: leroi jones wrote a piece about it, but i don't recall the title

― mark s, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Woody Guthrie, other folk, country, blues, and gospel.

― A Nairn, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Is Mark S the former editor of the NME or just another opinionated twerp?

― Chris, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Twerp being a southern English slang term for "perceptive cultural commentator".

― Chris Sallis, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah... what, "twerp" in the "stating facts which are correct" sense?

― matthew m., Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

i am a former editor but not of the nme chris

― mark s, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

A good deal of what you ascribe to the 50s, Neil, happened in the 40s (R&B + Country = rock n' roll, gospel miscegination).

― Colin Meeder, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

best avoid ILM if you don't like 'opnionated twerps' Chris.

― stevo, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Perhaps the most common choice for 'first rock 'n' roll record', Rocket 88, was recorded in 1951; 'Good Rockin' Tonight' was first recorded in (from memory) 1947. R&B and swinging jazz was going strong then, and western swing.

― Martin Skidmore, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two years pass...

why was there a record ban?

― dan jircitano, Thursday, 4 November 2004 23:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Nat King Cole's importance is not grasped by a lot of us. I was pretty surprised by how many Latin American singers apparently considered him somewhat of a model (including Beny More, who is surely more important for Cuban music than Cole is for American music).

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 4 November 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

James C. Petrillo, pres of the American Federation of Musicians '40-'58, threatened in June '42 to lead 140,000 AFM union members in a strike against record companies unless they subsidized live music, which was being threatened by jukeboxes. Most record companies tumbled, meaning no mainstream product until '44. So, smaller companies were able to find bigger audience for r&b, etc., after '44. Big event actually.

And yeah, Central Ave. scene was hopping during this time--bebop gestating. Really interesting times if you ask me.

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Friday, 5 November 2004 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, swing was the thing, re Bob Wills' country fusion dancebands, Nat Cole Trio, Benny Goodman's (and others) big bands, a pre-disco approach (hell, they even swung "Loch Loman," or somebody did). Also his small group with electric guitarist Charlie Christian, was, to my hearing the best pre-rock rock (pre-rocknroll-rock too, since it went straight to the raw-edged upfront virtuosity associated more with say the live Who than what Sun artists were going for). Especially in airchecks( live broadcasts, often recorded at radio stations or by listeners, getting around the recording bans and wartime rationing of shellac, etc., used in 78 RPM records). Charlie Christian also recorded with Charlie Parker, didn't he? At least aircheck or other jamwise. Him and Louie Prima (and some of Bob Wills) rock me lots more than Louis Jordan, or most of the other jump band artists I've herad (though I've prob missed a lot) Charles Mingus was already messing with bop whne it and he were very young, and he was into swing and other pop-jazz convergences, re that Central Avenue scene Eddie pointed out, some heavy blues-is-a-feeling experiments I love on CHARLES "BARON" MINGUS, WEST COAST 1945-49, on the Uptown label (the most complete colllection I've come across). Late 40s/earliest 50s R&B is amzing on the orig.one-volume THE OKEH R&B STORY, now a boxset, but I haven't heard that (the one-vol. was on vinyl and then cassette; never seen it on CD, but even the cassette sounds great)Billboard's pop singles collections (all worth checking out) include tow volumes of 40s, like 40-to-45, 45-to-49 (I think, don't have 'em in front of me).

― don, Friday, 5 November 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Somebody should do a POX from each year of this decade. I don't know shit about music made in the pre-rock era.

― Mr. Snrub, Friday, 5 November 2004 03:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Big Joe and Wynonie Harris were kings.

― danh (danh), Friday, 5 November 2004 03:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Wasn't the record ban the result of rationing shellac or vinyl for the war effort?

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 5 November 2004 04:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Rationing didn't result in complete ban, but mainly releases were "v-discs": v-for-victory;buy 'em and send 'em to your loved ones in uniform (I think most if not all of the proceeds went to Govt. also, like war bonds). It was also a way around, or compromise with, the labor-related ban described in Eddie's post.

― don, Friday, 5 November 2004 04:58 (twenty-one years ago)

two HUGE names that no one seems to have mentioned yet.

hank williams. he straddled the '40s and '50s, doing his first recordings in the mid-'40s and being dead by 1952. in that span he basically launched the modern country music business.

bill monroe. started performing in the '30s, formed the blue grass boys circa 1938 or 1939 and then spent the '40s inventing and codifying what we now know as bluegrass music.

so you can put both honky-tonk and bluegrass in the '40s column.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Friday, 5 November 2004 06:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks, Don, for answering my question before I even asked it! [Vows to read more thoroughly in future.]

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 5 November 2004 06:27 (twenty-one years ago)

the '40s also gave us the modern broadway musical, which is generally said to have begun with rodgers and hammerstein's revolutionary "oklahoma!" in 1943 (the first work rodgers composed after dumping his alcoholic partner lorenz hart and replacing him with hammerstein). among the major musicals that followed in the decade were "carousel," "on the town," "annie get your gun,""kiss me kate" and "south pacific." lots and lots of american pop standards to be found in those shows.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Friday, 5 November 2004 06:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Not so much players of note, but Les Paul and Leo Fender were doing quite a bit of work during this time as well. I realize Les Paul performed with his wife, Mary Ford, but his greater influence on music was yet to come.

― jim wentworth (wench), Friday, 5 November 2004 07:28 (twenty-one years ago)

A range of perspectives on 40s America - and I have Proper's bargain box sets to thank for a growing interest in Bluegrass, Western Swing, BeBop, and so on

But this was also the period of Dame Vera, Flanagan & Allen, Noel Coward...

And if in a Gibert & George, Denis Potter, Alan Bennett sort of way you want to tap into a really strong pre-American Englishness I suspect this is the decade in which to begin (there being a case that the music hall is the genuine home of English folk music). However I am very hazy on all this and would welcome a search / destroy...

― Guy Beckett, Friday, 5 November 2004 08:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Stuff I like from the 40s:

Duke Ellington - The Blanton Webster Band
Hank Williams - Jambalaya (Living Era)
Charlie Parker - Savoy and Dial recordings
early Muddy Waters stuff on Anthology

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 5 November 2004 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Spike Jones & the City Slickers - Der Fuehrer's Face (et al)

― Soon Over Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 5 November 2004 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

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