kill all djs?

In most other genres I don't think the DJ is given too much more praise than they deserve - the good ones certainly deserve some at least, as they can quite obviously make or break a night of entertainment.

The reason there's so much hype about the 'cult of the dj' is just that it's a form of musicianship that hasn't been fully appreciated in mainstream culture up until fairly recently and to some particularly un-noteworthy critics, that is something worth shouting about.

and yes, there are a few djs out there who are truly inspired but most of those truly know music which was my initial point. i have heard so many people tell me they are going to get a set of technics and get into djing but they don't have any records yet. err, surely the having the records part should come first?

"The only place it really seems totally out of control is in progressive house, and there only because the music and the artists who make it are both so shapeless and samey that fans need *something* to latch onto. This seems to be the only area of dance music where the DJs' weekend exploits/girlfriends/views on politics are taken seriously, and then only by the likes of Ministry, Mixmag etc."

What an excellent point mate.

However, suggesting that because such DJs are talented and deeply wonderful human beings they deserve the huge cover price for the clubs they play and the crowds a name DJ can attract is as accurate as a suggestion that any other part of show business is a meritocracy.

The cult of the name DJs and the blizzard of fly posting for the Tunnel when 'Bloke who once did half an hour at Ministry of Sound' does the provinces is a marketing exercise and there is little corelation between how good these people are at playing records.

Obviously actual turntablist live sound manipulators are quite a different thing - though surely that will be replaced by digital sound manipulators soon, there is nothing in the technology of decks that is fundamentally interesting - unless you still think Dylan sold out when he met The Band. The fetishism of "Dex and FX" will surely soon be "wav files and FX".

I think of the DJ as a "facilitator" more than anything else......in certain electronic genres it just works better somehow to have DJs presenting the tunes to you in lieu of "artist albums." If it wasn't for DJs, I'd miss out on an awful lot of stuff that I enjoy - and a really nice, well thought out pro-tooled mix between tracks a la Digweed, Sasha or Seaman can be a wonderful thing....but for me that's the extent of it. Simply put, I tend to favor the DJs who drop the highest percentage of tunes that I would want to hear. I think they are given too much credit, while the producers of the tunes I am enjoying are usually given far too little credit.

I don't think it's necessarily boring (though it certainly can be) but it's definitely faceless. The artists are all blokes and lads, and the music sounds more like an assemblage of dj tools than just about anything (almost as much as Jeff Mills' actual dj tools tracks). So of course the DJ becomes over-venerated in this equation.

Alexander, I think the part of the equation you might be missing (and no, it still doesn't justify forking out so much) is the role that the big-name DJs have in setting and forecasting trends. In Australia, people go mad for the big-name UK DJs partly because they are big-name, but also because those DJs will be playing tracks we won't start hearing being played by our own DJs for another couple of months. So you're essentially getting a sneak peak of the next big things. In jungle this has gotten to the point where a DJ like Grooverider has dubplates of big tracks that don't even get pressed as records for up to a year afterwards, and surface on cd even later again.

Tim, although I did indeed fail to cover this adequately, and it explains better why big name djs get big crowds, thats *still* a marketing thing... its not for from 'forecasting' trends to 'manufacturing' trends.

Stacey Pullen is probably my favoured example of this... spinning across house, detroit techno and other variables, slaughtering the eq's and utilising the 3rd table as more than an instrument of one- upmanship (as is the case with most 'turntablists') he is amazing each time I have seen him spin.

ps. Word to those dissing prog-house. Boring, mindless and boring.

Actually I'm not sure what the distinction actually is, unless you're suggesting that the DJs are all paid up by major labels. I guess the DJ is essentially *already* an advertiser (perhaps the most venerated advertiser ever), and getting your track into the set of a big-name is the same as getting your commercial into a break during a prime time show. So there is an element of manufacturing going on. The rub is that a) the advertiser in this case - usually - allows their own aesthetic tastes to form much of the criteria, and b) audiences still need to like what you're selling for you to recoup anything.

Also, the rhetoric around prog is the most boringly staid in dance music (only rivalled by detroit techno - sorry MT!), which makes the sort of blanket dismissals you're railing against terribly tempting.

The most interesting stuff in club right now is possibly the ultra-dirty style being put forward by Erick Morillo (Ronan, you *need* his Subliminal Sessions Volume 2 release!!) - not too far removed from prog, but brings back the sex *and* the danger.

I went to see David Holmes last night, and well, he can't mix to save his life, but his tunes were fantastic. I then watched my friend work some wonders with Thick Dick-Welcome to the Jungle and Junior Jack- Thrill Me. If you know those songs, imagine the vocal sample from Thick Dick over the string build up from Junior Jack and then boom! "I want to fuck you like an animal" as the bassline from Thrill Me kicks in. Superb stuff.

They even finished up with Chime.

That Thick Dick-Junior Jack mix sounds good - the monologue in "Welcome To The Jungle" is obviously quite useful, but I found the actual music a tad disappointing.

Oh yeah, and about the Atlantic Jaxx compilation, is there a song by Ronnie Richards called "Missing You"? It's on the Jon Carter part of that mix album, but it's the "Jaxx Wild Dub" version, really excellent stuff.

secondly - 'my genre is more progressive than your genre'. a fairly pointless debate but so called 'micro house' makes so called 'progressive house' sound like something from, well last century. check anything on playhouse, perlon or klang and especially the works of the mighty akufen. his records render 99% of house as sounding sooooo tired and dated. much as i hate the word, this is the true progression in house music.

I hate the word too. "Expansion", maybe? Especially as it highlights what microhouse (perhaps ironically, considering it's do stripped down) does that prog doesn't.

Ronan - "Missing You" is on the Atlantic Jaxx compilation, presumably in its original version as it doesn't say anything to the contrary. I must stress that I don't tend to listen to the comp. much - the concentration of their latin stuff gets a bit samey, at least compared to the ADD approach of the albums. Still, if you don't have "Samba Magic", "Fly Life", "Lonely" etc. it's a good buy.

http://djsgirlfriend.tumblr.com

from way upthread, but i don't really get this:

Oh bollocks. DJing is like any other form of musicianship (if done right). The only difference is it's easier to do adequately than a lot of things but just as hard to do brilliantly.

if it's easier to be decent at it why is is just as hard to be brilliant?

like i get that a good DJ has real skill etc but i don't think it's as hard as being, for example, a brilliant sitar or saxophone player...just from a physical/dexterity/technique standpoint

Lol I didn't even check but I bet that was me, erm, 11 years ago.

It's a bit of a dark art, DJing, like "difficulty" doesn't really come into it. Personality I guess.

It has so many elements involved in doing it well including buying/choosing records, which is a p abstract skill.

And then just playing good sets live, that is something that I'd say is difficult, to be consistently good.

I mean yeah, I'd agree it's technically more difficult to be a sitar player, but it's very hard to quantify the skills of a good DJ.

I''d say everyone has their moments but to consistently get crowds going is fucking tough, nothing but respect for the DJs who never seem to play a bad set.

I say this as I was always/am now occasionally, a competent DJ with the occasional set where it goes amazingly.

Djs are like “all other djs are wrong”