TS: grime vs. dubstep - which is the best of these UK garage offshoots?

winner to be decided on Greatest Hits circe 2010

hahahahahahahahaha

you have put me off ever even going near a dubstep record.

save that shit for projection re: britney spears' 'everytime'!

you sound like a cream fan.

Writing whole genres of, even new, barely born ones (yes yes I know 5 yr roots etc but has it become ALL it's going to become already?) is daft.

no i used 'fidgety' because it makes me fidget because i find it so dull 95% of the time. granted my attention span and patience levels lately are plumbing new depths of lowness but still.

Welcome to 2006

In other news, I don't mind dubstep at all, but I certainly prefer the lo-fi grittiness of grime.

i can assure you that that site plays approx 0 role in the creation of either.

I'm not talking about the difference between grime and dubstep, but rather the idea that the two genres are somehow at odds with one another.

Also, I find it hard to believe that Pitchfork -- a site that runs almost weekly features on either grime or dubstep and is responsible for making these two genres visible to an American audience -- plays absolutely no role in the preponderance of talk about these types of music. Pitchfork has been creating fads within America's non-mainstream (for lack of a better term, as usual) music audience for years now.

Grime is electroclash, dancepunk, and freakfolk all over again. Just another fad spearheaded by the cool kids over at Pitchfork.

Of course, you and everybody else on this forum are the exceptions to the rule. You knew about all that stuff way before the hipster media was on top of it. I apologize.

And being that it's hard to distinguish sometimes between UK and USA people on this forum, you'll note that the introduction of grime/dubstep/etc. to the American hipster community is likely far different than how it occurred in the UK. I should have made that distinction earlier.

Grime has lost it a bit hasn't it? Or is it restructuring itself into a self-supporting system that doesn't need the majors? But its no fad. It might be for the beard stroking hipsters in NY (or whatever) but in East LDN?

Boy In Da Corner came out 2003! If anything that was the -highpoint- of grime getting media coverage + hipster attention.

I don't think Grime is very popular with hipsters even now is it? about 1/10th as popular as Kompakt, or MSTRKRFT, or Clap Your Hands Say Yeah, or tons of other stuff surely?

"Fake grime" (stirring here) like M.I.A. or Various Productions gets more attention than I dunno, fucking Bear Man surely? I'm not exactly seeing people YSI-ing Plastician sets along with DFA mixes much...

Either titchy is very silly or he's actually trying to destroy dubstep's cred from the inside.

hahaha wow this has cheered me right up.

so many ways to take the piss, so little time

If there are so many ways, why not do it?

do you really think that pitchfork - or come to that any INTERNET SITE - has remotely anything to do with how the music fundamentally is? how it's created, why it's created, how it's consumed &c &c.

and no sodding internet site plays that much of a role in the talk about the music, either. they bring it to your attention and then you do the talk yourself. i am profoundly grateful i have never heard anyone in real life say the word 'pitchfork' as if they or i should give a shit what its verdict is - i am profoundly disturbed that there appear to be people who do this.

click. away. from the internet.

well, actually the internet *does* affect how the music is consumed!

Since you used the word "sodding," I think I'm safe in finally identifying you as somebody from the UK. In which case, the Pitchfork effect doesn't really apply. What I can tell you is that I didn't hear anybody at all stateside talking about Dizzee Rascal and such until Pitchfork had already pimped it for a few weeks. Then it was suddenly "grime" this and "grime" that.

Second, I never claimed that Pitchfork has changed the music. Just that it has created the American concept of "grime" as though it were a fad that had emerged overnight. They have created it, in other words, as a watchword for hipsters, much like they've done with "electroclash," "dancepunk," and "freakfolk." That grime, and more recently dubstep, have emerged in America as fads does not speak ill, necessarily, of the music. What I'm doing is criticizing the shortsighted, Pitchfork mentality that spawns fake shit like "grime vs. dubstep: which is better?"

not even when you were living in Somerset? ;)

I like the notion that none of these would have happened but for Pitchfork.

Or should we talk about "rock", "jazz" and "classical"?

I guess what you were driving at is that dork-forkmedia popularises these things but only as a disposable fad, a mere fashionable fancy as expendable as a nappy, with its future obsolescence built in from the very start, and they do this through the style of their coverage? I think this is true, but this is also the case for all non-specialist music media, isn't it?

http://magnuminmotion.com/essay_grime/

depends what your timeline is. everything is a fad eventually.

Am I right in thinking that dubstep is actually bigger than grime now, as far as popularity of raves and number of people immersed in the scene goes? Grime strikes me as a scene on the wane in a way in which dubstep doesn't (yet).

Or is it possible that dubstep nights are less intimidating to the casual punter? If anything this was as bigger factor hindering grime's crossover potential as the inaccessibility of the music.

this thread is masterful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkFASlncdic

The premise of this thread is to me a little misguided and many of the posts are the anti-OTM. Dubstep and Grime are slightly apples and oranges, though they obviously share similar roots you can say that about lots of things. Happy hardcore and prog-house can be traced back to common sources and you don't see people TSing them, and rightly so. The stress on the idea of darkness and tension in dubstep also irks me somewhat, I went to see Skream on Saturday and there was the darkness at times, but also the light lilting two-step and the complete stompers. It may be half-time but the wobbling-bass keeps you skanking liberally.

http://tracksuitceo.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/ninja-versus-pirate.png?w=251&h=129

This looks a LOT better than any of Boxes O' Dub:

Steppas’ Delight: Dubstep present to Future
Label: Soul Jazz

In the early 2000s Dubstep was a marginal music made by a handful of young producers in the concrete-coated suburbs of South-West London. Using free PC software like Fruity Loops or PlayStation’s music-making software Music 2000 and making their own left-field versions of dark garage records by producers like El-B, Benny Ill and Wookie which themselves were experiments into the outskirts of what was then the shiny, champagne-bubblin’ 2step garage scene.

Fast forward eight years and Dubstep is easily the most vibrant scene in the UK with many of the original Dubstep artists now the most in-demand producers, remixers, DJs and label-owners in the UK today. Steppas’ Delight traces the musical journey of Dubstep from these small beginnings to the current new wave of young artists and producers on the scene today. This release is both a snapshot of the present and future and an essential guide to Dubstep, and telling the story of the music – the artists, labels, clubs, radio stations, cutting houses and more.

This release is a continuation of Soul Jazz Records’ prolific Dubstep releases such as the Box of Dub albums as well as singles from the likes of Digital Mystikz, Skream, Ramadanman, Cotti, Kode9, Ladybug, Warrior Queen and many more. Steppas’ Delight is made up of important tracks from the origination of the scene, current new wave producers and exclusive unreleased cuts. Essential!

CD1
01 Kode 9 - Samurai 9
02 Benga - Evolution
03 Search and Destroy - Candy Floss (Loefah Mix)
04 Plastician featuring Skepta - Intensive Snare
05 Uncle Sam - Round The World Girls (Tes La Rok Mix)
06 The Bug and Warrior Queen - Poison Dart
07 Goth Trad - Genesis
08 Seventeen Evergreen - Ensonique (Bi-Polar Man Mix)
09 Martyn - Broken
10 Shackleton - Blood On My Hands
CD2
01 TRG - Broken Heart
02 Joker - Gullybrook Lane (Instrumental)
03 Quest - Hardfood
04 Ikonika - Please
05 Silkie - Dam 4
06 Geiom featuring Marita - Reminissin
07 Shonx - Canton
08 Gatekeeper featuring Grilza - Shade Darker
09 Peverelist - Roll With The Punches

http://www.podcastingnews.com/articles/images/blogger_podcast/blogger_podcast_05.gif

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