Is Bono Right?

eg he's saying (something like) the armature of "straight" musicianship and theory tends to render western pop lame and weak and eurocentric, and new technology (not yet recuperated by theory and established musicianship) enables a return to "swing"/"funk"/"soul" blah blah.

is african culture intrinsically "funkier" or more "soulful" than european? Less spoiled, less over-calculated, potentially freer? If less spoiled, then maybe also more likely to become spoiled? And if we ARE claiming any of these, what exactly are we committing ourselves to?

I guess I'd say what's really powerful and valuable about swing/funk/soul AND hiphop is something that could ONLY have emerged in America, given a very specific clash of cultures and politics, a historically particular mix of negotiations of compromise and refusals of assimilation, and that this dynamic culture-collision is one of America's best, and most urgent exports.

metacomment thereon: jel is smarter than eno and bono combined (however eno and bono combined is LESS smart than eno on his own)

Don: Tell me what hip hop is. Bono: Oh, hip hop is an amazing thing. Hip hop is how black people use technology to discover Africa. Don: Ah God, I wish they'd quit killing the beasts.

and would (and does) occur (mostly) in America?

and doesn't necessarily imply anything at all about the "natural rhythm" of blacks or "white muso flagellation" before same?

bono's line is possibly just a typically pithy and epigrammatic (but not fully fleshed out) attempt to show a link between the rhythmic complexity of modern digitally-produced hip-hop and (some, not necessarily all of) African music? i don't see the ILx scare words "funk" or "soul" implied there (but given Rattle and Hum, who knows about the rest of the article...)

even more benign (and not "benignly racist", either) would be the interpretation that digital technology allows one person to produce rhythms so complex and multifaceted that, pre-advent-of-such- technology, a large collective would have been required to do same. of course, this kind of group effort is the way that (some, not necessarily all) of African rhythm patterns are/were produced.

obv. some pre-digital collectives of musicians in America (many, not necessarily all of whom were black) played rhythmically complex music (Funkadelic, Bitches Brew, the J.B.'s), but smaller groups back then would have had trouble coming up with anything as dense as the best work of the Bomb Squad or the backing track to that new Brandy single.

also, the idea of "digital technology" (which may be a useful shorthand for all sorts of non-music related gear, including, yes nick, the telephone network) allows communication of whatever kind of music (incl. rhythmically complex digital music described above) across ridiculous distances instantaneously.

so while (in the pre-dig.-tech world) geographic areas (somewhat, not completely) isolated from each other would tend to develop along different lines musically, with cross-pollination being rare enough that it can be (imperfectly) noted and tracked (like when fela brought the james brown sound back from LA), today it's (at least theoretically) possible that new developments in music and sound ping back and forth so quickly between different minds and different places that there is really only one rhythm culture, which is global and accessible to all who have the electronic toys to play along.

this strikes me as being pretty non-controversial (though possibly not all that interesting) and it surprises me that the ILx massif so far hasn't risen much beyond "bono is a horrible, horrible little twunt" remarks on the subject.

quick summary: you know the little twunt may have a point if even mr. sinkah has to resort to such cliches as: "and if we ARE claiming any of these, what exactly are we committing ourselves to?" i mean, point taken and all, but give the little twunt a break already...

There is also a long African-American tradition of using/imagining technology as a symbolic route to the motherland, whether it's Marcus Garvey's Black Star Liner, George Clinton's Mothership or Elijah Muhammed and SUn Ra's weird thing with flying saucers.

It's also possible to acknowledge the plain fact that African-derived musical cultural traditions tend to privilege rhythm over melody without having to say anything essentialist about funky black folks.

None of which makes Bono's comments any less lazy, cliched and annoying.

ok, to be fair to eno — and to continue to be unfair to bongo heh — i think his line very probably IS as yr line (re africa and tech as a provocative collision etc); tho i also think the eno line falls somewhat foul of the SO HOW COME YOUR MUSIC IS SO UNFUNKY EH BRIAN line of crit (or if you prefer, "not very apparently rhythmically sophisticated", even if that IS the best drums phil collins evah played...)... why endlessly big up the 'african' potential of the tech unless you are subtly impying that yr own manifest tech-ness = secretly a superior africa?

i confess i am an inveterate bono-hata, but i am not a brian-hata: he puzzles and fascinates me => i do not think this rhetorical claim is irredeemable, but i *do* think it slipslides into kneejerk territory quicker than it might

"and if we ARE claiming any of these, what exactly are we committing ourselves to?": haha deep down i am more scarily rockist than any of you dare contemplate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and i doubt bono's ever said anything of much interest to anyone except bonophans (filthy lot), which has little to do with whether or not he actually has a point here...

ben: "lazy, cliched and annoying"? well, when you speak in slogans you don't necassarily show all your work, so unless bono's planning to submit a feature-length article on the topic to mark s at the wire, you can probably nail him on "lazy".

but cliches are marked by overuse (though not necessarily false) and this doesn't strike me as cliched, since (1) i've never heard it before, not even eno's version, and (2) it runs against what i would take to be the prevailing critical "wisdom" on the subject (something like: "these drum loops and sequencers are draining the soul/funkiness/etc. from the proud tradition of black music blah blah" (copyright: Rolling Stone magazine). but if you've been reading a steady diet of afro-tech futurism, this may be just more of the same...

and "annoying" is always in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? i think bono's generally pretty annoying, but that doesn't make this statement of his annoying, let alone wrong.

mark s - i don't understand your point re: "[eno's] own manifest tech- ness = secretly a superior africa". do you mean "africa" as a trope for "rhythmically sophisticated"? or do you mean that since eno is UNFUNKY he must believe that being so is superior to being funky? am i close? c'mon gimme a hint...

me, i'd expect tech to have (potentially) as many different effects as there are different people using it. why should we try to place all digitally produced music on a single continuum?

I would have thought his remarks would have been more appropriate (or at least expected) 10-15 years ago (in the heyday of Public Enemy) when hip hop was more 'afrocentric' - both in the sense of lyrical content and in its sourcing of samples almost exclusively from earlier black music. The music has changed a lot since then, becoming more ingenious and intricately programmed - yes - but less directly linkable to any mythic notions of 'africa'; (because what is meant by 'africa' other than the kind of mysticism re. rhythm I mentioned earlier?).

Also, you could only argue that technology is relevant to one element of hip hop, namely DJing. But I guess I'm back to having problems with the word 'essentially'

er well, this is me trying to flesh out a not-entirely-fair crit of eno i sense at work a lot (w/o actually believing it myself): which is that he is stressing the association africa<=>tech in order to present his own work (at least if we take as given the eno<=>tech-egghead association) as MORE "african" than anyone casually listening has ever taken it to be, by ANY definition, subtle or otherwise, of "african"...

i accept that this is a bit twisty (and that given the LaYMoR cliches abroad in eg the Stone, we may be bigging DOWN a potentially smart and potent idea a bit too soon ourselves...)

Phong, the proper question is: "How many angels can, in fact, GROOVE on the head of a pin?" ANS = The world moves on a woman's hips...

(ps if bono does intend sending a piece on all this to me at the wire, he should i think be aware i have had no editorial input there for some eight years...)

Bono may or may not know his afro-futurism from his elbow; he clearly knows FUCK ALL abt Beefheart.

Jeez, it looks like Bono understands Hip Hop EVEN LESS than I do.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/apr/13/bono-send-amy-schumer-chris-rock-fight-islamic-state-isis

Bono was speaking in front of a Senate subcommittee on Tuesday 12 April, during a wide-ranging discussion on the Middle East and the refugee crisis. He said: “Don’t laugh. I think comedy should be deployed. It’s like, you speak violence, you speak their language. But you laugh at them, when they’re goose-stepping down the street, and it takes away their power. So, I’m suggesting that the Senate send in Amy Schumer, and Chris Rock, and Sacha Baron Cohen, thank you.”