If CBGB's landlord was a homeless organization, how is its closing "a symptom of the empty new prosperity of our city," per Patti Smith?

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I mean, I know it sucks, but this seems a little, er, overwrought.

― A Radio Picture (Rrrickey), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 08:37 (nineteen years ago)

If Since CBGB's landlord ~~was~~ is a homeless organization, how is its closing "a symptom of the empty new prosperity of our city," per Patti Smith?

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 08:56 (nineteen years ago)

is that what you mean?

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 08:56 (nineteen years ago)

Same thing, really. "Was" seems to fit, now that the club is closed.

― A Radio Picture (Rrrickey), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 09:37 (nineteen years ago)

Strictly speaking, "since" means "after a certain point in time."

― A Radio Picture (Rrrickey), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 09:38 (nineteen years ago)

[/i love grammar]

― A Radio Picture (Rrrickey), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 09:38 (nineteen years ago)

3 : in view of the fact that : BECAUSE

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 09:43 (nineteen years ago)

"if" - strictly speaking - means that you don't know whether what you're saying next is in fact the case.

is this, in fact, the case?

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 09:45 (nineteen years ago)

Was CBGB's landlord be a homeless organization, how are its closing "a symptom of the empty new prosperity of our city," per Patti Smith?

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 09:47 (nineteen years ago)

In CBGB's landlord for a homeless organization, how to have been its closing "a symptom of the empty new prosperity of our city," ab Patti Smith?

― Mr Straight Toxic (ghostface), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 11:16 (nineteen years ago)

Punk rock is more important than the homeless.

― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 11:18 (nineteen years ago)

THANK GOD ILM IS BACK

― a|ex (Pareene), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 11:49 (nineteen years ago)

I read that as:

THANK GOD ILM IS BLACK

― mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

Mmmm, white guilt? (punctuate THAT)

― factcheckr (factcheckr), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 12:06 (nineteen years ago)

(please)

― factcheckr (factcheckr), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 12:07 (nineteen years ago)

Patti is an old hippie who is never worth listening to unless music is playing (and not always then).

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 12:53 (nineteen years ago)

i don't see how the landlord closing himself is germane, anyway

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 13:12 (nineteen years ago)

the landlord is an organization with a $32 million budget, public and private funding, and was trying to raise the rent.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 13:45 (nineteen years ago)

that quote seemed more misleading because of the "our city" part, unless she moved back from michigan or whatever. isn't she from jersey originally?

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

"an I sed, good luck hinnie, it's mair than I can dae!!"

― bobby thompson (mark grout), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 13:47 (nineteen years ago)

I mean, I know it sucks, but this seems a little, er, overwrought.

Well, exactly: this has very little to do with the gentrification of NYC. It wasn't Donald Trump or Bloomberg that closed the club, but a homeless organization. But it doesn't fit the story arc to say that Hilly should have made better business decisions re the property.

― mike a (mike a), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 13:49 (nineteen years ago)

hilly was a douche with not much business sense, but c'mon. the bhc was just trying to get a rental price in line with the condos that are now on the bowery, not the old flophouses.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

CBGB's DID owe like $100,000 in back rent, so it's pretty much their fault if they can't get it together after all these years. They've been renting the place since 1970 - does that sound crazy to anybody else? Hilly totally mismanaged that joint, in my uninformed opinion. And who cares about patti smith and the talking heads playing there, this is where JUDGE, Youth of Today, Gorilla Biscuits, Cro-Mags and SOIA all played too. Gorilla Biscuits played their FIRST show there! Also, right around the corner is Mars Bar, one of the last totally crustypunk shithole bars where fights break out all the time between GG Allin fans, and there's Crass and Conflict on the jukebox. That place is new york punk to me, not some tourist attraction/t-shirt vendor.

― mat maiellro (chelvis), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 16:59 (nineteen years ago)

agree to a point. there was a settlement (i believe) on the back rent, and i think one of the reasons it was so high was because, again, the bhc was about thinking they can charge new-condos-above-crash-mansion (guh i'm embarassed just typing the name of that club) size rent. the problem is bigger than just hilly being a douche or bhc being nutty.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:02 (nineteen years ago)

crash mansion alone validates the phrase "empty new prosperity of our city"

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:05 (nineteen years ago)

tracer hand otm. that place sucks big time.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:06 (nineteen years ago)

the owner is also, unsurprisingly, a cartoonish jerkwad.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

This has very little to do with the gentrification of NYC. It wasn't Donald Trump or Bloomberg that closed the club, but a homeless organization.

It has to do with rent being high and rising = it has to do with gentrification: it has nothing to do with who the landlord is and everything to do with market values in the area. I mean, the word "gentrification" has a meaning beyond caricatures of non-profits vs corporations.

The psychology of old punks coming out to mourn the place seems really off to me: it's not like they play there anymore, is it? If anyone were going to be sad about it, it'd be the young rock and nu-metal kids from Jersey and Long Island who actually go see bands there.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:34 (nineteen years ago)

those kids still have the continental don't they?

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:45 (nineteen years ago)

no, no more live music at the continental, tracer.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:50 (nineteen years ago)

in the same ny times article:

"The Continental, another ragged temple of punk on Third Avenue in the East Village, quit live music last month. "

― Ben H (Ben H), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 18:17 (nineteen years ago)

The world is better off without CBGB's, an epicenter of mediocrity for decades.

― Forsythe Jones (Grodd), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 18:21 (nineteen years ago)

from what I understand Patti moved back to NYC in '95 or so

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 20:08 (nineteen years ago)

LOL @ dude repping for mars bar.... but otm re: hardcore bands

what about ABC NO RIO guys!!!11112!@!

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 20:14 (nineteen years ago)

A crustypunk shithole bar where G.G. Allin fans are punching each other and Crass is on the juke is my definition of hell, which works out, since I'm sure Mars Bar patrons wouldn't want me around either.

― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 20:17 (nineteen years ago)

abc no rio recently bought their building! all hail anarchist collectivism!

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 20:19 (nineteen years ago)

see squat is now see co-op.

― bell labs (bell_labs), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 20:23 (nineteen years ago)

One womders how many millions Hilly gets from licensing the CBGB logo.

― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 20:24 (nineteen years ago)

I hear there are some rock clubs in Brooklyn.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 20:38 (nineteen years ago)

I hear all the artists live in Williamsburg and Bedford ave is the center of the hip arts scene!

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 21:02 (nineteen years ago)

I definitely agree with the broad statement that New York, especially Manhattan is going through a empty new prosperity and believe Patti Smith has as much of a right as anybody to claim New York as her city, but I'm not sure how much CBGBs is a symptom of this. They rent went up in their neighborhood because of gentrification to be sure, but if a nationally famous bar known as a historical landmark that has to be doing shitloads in merchandizing every year and is having big acts coming through all the time (last I checked Shakira was playing) can't stay open, there has to be some degree of mismangement.

― Period period period (Period period period), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 21:17 (nineteen years ago)

Ever since Minton's Playhouse closed, there's just nowhere for young bebop musicians to play anymore. It's clearly a sign of the city's empty new prosperity.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 21:20 (nineteen years ago)

Haha!

― A Radio Picture (Rrrickey), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 22:06 (nineteen years ago)

shakira playing? she may have worn a t-shirt, but i don't think she performed there.

― maura (maura), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 22:20 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.vh1.com/artists/az/shakira/videos.jhtml

Shakira Does CBGB's"
Watch her get dirty for the cameras in the downtown rock club's men's room.

― Period period period (Period period period), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 00:51 (nineteen years ago)

nabisco otm

― a regal trolley (aaron a), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 00:58 (nineteen years ago)

I never went to CBGB's as I thought "It could only disappoint"

for instance, say I'd gone wanting to see something "Ramones" and saw instead the more considered strictures of Talking Heads.

I'd have been underwhelmed, possibly, but yet in 10 years time going "OMG I saw TH in the early days!!"

that's why.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 07:47 (nineteen years ago)

minton's playhouse closed because the US economy - and New York specifically - was going down the dumper and there wasn't exactly room anymore for cheetah skin and highballs

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 08:32 (nineteen years ago)

if a nationally famous bar known as a historical landmark that has to be doing shitloads in merchandizing every year and is having big acts coming through all the time (last I checked Shakira was playing) can't stay open, there has to be some degree of mismangement

Well, exactly. Last I checked, there were still plenty of music bars in Manhattan, even in spite of gentrification and high rents.

― mike a (mike a), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

I mean, I know it sucks, but this seems a little, er, overwrought.

Patti Smith? Overwrought? Never!

― Diddumsismus (Dada), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 15:21 (nineteen years ago)

"Patti you're not being emotive enough."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 15:22 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, another thing to note here: the fact that the landlord is a homeless advocacy group does not exactly mean that CBGB's is about to be replaced by, like, more homeless advocacy, or something. The homeless group will see an upswing in their rent intake, which is all well and good, but "empty new prosperity"-wise, the view from the street will be that CBGBs is replaced, and its space occupied, by something more likely to bring in that higher rent. This will most likely be something the people on this thread will hate way more than CBGBs.

Patti might be missing the point that city prosperity, gentrification-wise, often means "very nice things for people more prosperous than me" -- that sense of "emptiness" tends to have a lot to do with the stuff in question not being directed at your economic level (or related lifestyle choices).

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 15:37 (nineteen years ago)

This will most likely be something the people on this thread will ~~hate way more than CBGBs~~ be more likely to show their face at.

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 16:09 (nineteen years ago)

duane reade?

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 16:21 (nineteen years ago)

I dunno, Jon -- I suppose it might get subdivided, but given the amount of space there, I'm kind of imagining some kind of awful mega-bar winding up there! But if it turns into a decent upscale restaurant, or something, then you're right.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

Stencil kinda OTM too -- given the Whole Foods going in round the corner and such, some sort of everyday-shopping chain wouldn't be a big surprise, either.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 16:48 (nineteen years ago)

At least a megabar MIGHT have girls without open sores or raver bracelets.

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 16:53 (nineteen years ago)

the largest real estate deal in the history of mankind ($5.1B) took place yesterday crosstown.

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 16:57 (nineteen years ago)

patti smith is an idiot.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 17:10 (nineteen years ago)

It irks me when people make personal presumptions about people they never met. If you had direct experience with Hilly Kristal, then go for it. By the way, he has lung cancer. I hope he makes fuckloads of money in Vegas and recovers.

― Fastnbulbous (Fastnbulbous), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 17:27 (nineteen years ago)

i really hope they turn it into a washington mutual or maybe an nyu dorm.

― bell labs (bell_labs), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 17:39 (nineteen years ago)

there already is a washington mutual across the street!

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 18:13 (nineteen years ago)

I can't believe they didn't blow it up a la Rock 'n Roll High School. (maybe if Marc Bell showed instead of Tommy Erdelyi?)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

crosstown

uptown?

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 19:02 (nineteen years ago)

Stuyvesant Town

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 21:06 (nineteen years ago)

It's not uptown at all.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 21:07 (nineteen years ago)

i really hope they turn it into a washington mutual or maybe an nyu dorm.

-- bell labs (lindsay...) (webmail), Today 2:39 PM. (bell_labs) (later) (link)

mega roffles over here

― ▒█▄█ ▄▄▄ ▒█▄█ , Wednesday, 18 October 2006 21:53 (nineteen years ago)

eleven months pass...

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0738,clancy,77835,2.html

― gr8080, Saturday, 22 September 2007 12:44 (eighteen years ago)

That's just depressing.

― Alex in NYC, Saturday, 22 September 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

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