Greatest R&B singer of all time?

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Discounting 1-4-5 blues and all of "soul", and ALL of post-1970's "R&B" (i.e. no Freddie Jackson/Luther votes allowed), who is the best. Knock yourself out and name a few...

― Saxby D. Elder, Thursday, 8 March 2007 05:57 (nineteen years ago)

discounting "soul" when talking R&B singers is inane. "Soul" and "R&B" are interchangable terms.
my faves:

Solomon Burke
James Brown
Clarence Reid
Otis Redding
Sam Cooke
Lattimore
Aretha
Lyn Collins
Wilson Pickett
glen goins
bobby byrd

― UncleTomfly, Thursday, 8 March 2007 08:47 (nineteen years ago)

You're saying there've been no great singers post-'79? Whatever. Anyway: Bobby Bland.

― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Thursday, 8 March 2007 08:48 (nineteen years ago)

Ray Charles
Marvin Gaye
Al Green

― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Thursday, 8 March 2007 08:49 (nineteen years ago)

Greatest R&B singer ~~that were born on odd years, have been divorced at least twice, and eat eggs twice a week or less~~ of all time?

― The Reverend, Thursday, 8 March 2007 09:57 (nineteen years ago)

No, the premise is pre-"Soul" era R&B singers. If you don't know what this means, then you know a lot less about this subject than you think you do.

(1) Soul and R&B are most certainly not the same thing and (2) what they have continued to call "R&B" within the industry does not interest me for the purposes of this thread.

Bobby Bland the exact type of answer that fits.

I got the idea while participating in the "greatest soul singer" thread and I was thinking that Little Johnny Taylor is one of my favorite singers, but he is an R&B performer, definitely not soul.

Is that so fucking hard and obtuse?

― Saxby D. Elder, Thursday, 8 March 2007 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

Sam Cooke had a great voice, and bonus for some great songs too. Same about Ben E. King. And surely Levi Stubbs, Marvin Gaye and Smokey Robinson as well.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 8 March 2007 22:37 (nineteen years ago)

Those are all soul singers.

Let's see, R&B before "soul" that's not 12-bar blues. Well, all the R&B singers sang blues songs, including Bobby "Blue" Bland. And I don't really see how Little Johnny Taylor isn't a soul singer, but maybe that's my ignorance...

― Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 8 March 2007 22:54 (nineteen years ago)

Bobby Bland
James Carr
Darrell Banks
David Ruffin
Sam Cooke

― Rikard Fortworth, Thursday, 8 March 2007 22:58 (nineteen years ago)

Well, if they are all soul singers, I generally dislike the R&B genre. I'm not denying the fact that there were some great and powerful voices within the genre though.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 8 March 2007 23:38 (nineteen years ago)

Amy Winehouse. Haw.

― Dr. Joseph A. Ofalt, Friday, 9 March 2007 00:07 (nineteen years ago)

OK, Saxby, I kinda see where you're coming from now. Bland is my man. I still check out his shows when he comes to Seattle.

I'd surely rep for some of those vocal-group and doowop guys -- Sonny Til, Sherman Garnes (not a lead singer, but the stuff he did on the intros of Teenagers records is indelible), the Flamingos, Harptones, Dubs. The Clovers, man.

Ruth Brown.

Oh yeah, three more words: Big Joe Turner.

― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Friday, 9 March 2007 01:52 (nineteen years ago)

saxby yes, this is an obtuse exercise. "pre soul era?" where do you draw the line? 1965? certainly "soul" singers like Solomon burke had more "R&B" in them than pop singers who sang hall music who fit your false criteria.

― UncleTomfly, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:00 (nineteen years ago)

im not sure i get it. would little richard count?

― artdamages, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:02 (nineteen years ago)

Oh yeah, three more words: Big Joe Turner.

Nice.... see was that so hard?

I likes me some If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up...

For the rest of you, David Ruffin was in the Temptations, a group which was on the CLASSIC SOUL label MOTOWN....

How ARE those Bland shows, btw? They must be good if you keep comin back!

― Saxby D. Elder, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:04 (nineteen years ago)

certainly "soul" singers like Solomon Burke had more "R&B" in them than pop singers who sang hall music who fit your false criteria.

My false criteria? You have just nailed it.

Solomon Burke was R&B. Nicely done. I don't see any argument for him being "soul".

― Saxby D. Elder, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:09 (nineteen years ago)

Ruffin sang with R&B groups The Dixie Hummingbirds and the Voicemasters, as well as some pre-Motown solo joints.

I believe that SIR, is an R&B singer if ever i heard of one.

― Rikard Fortworth, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:11 (nineteen years ago)

well if you are voting for him as such, then no problem.

― Saxby D. Elder, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:18 (nineteen years ago)

Plus you clearly GET it...

― Saxby D. Elder, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:18 (nineteen years ago)

Saxby are you a cross between GZeus and an antimatter version of Geir?

― Curt1s Stephens, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:20 (nineteen years ago)

what the hell is that nerd talk? hahaha

― Rikard Fortworth, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:21 (nineteen years ago)

Saxby are you a cross between GZeus and an antimatter version of Geir?

I don't know what you are talking about, I don't really get into following all the personalities here. I am sure what you have just said is deliciously humorous to those who do, however.

― Saxby D. Elder, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:36 (nineteen years ago)

sorry

― Curt1s Stephens, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:40 (nineteen years ago)

I concur!

― Rikard Fortworth, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:48 (nineteen years ago)

:(

Sorry to offend, guys.

― Curt1s Stephens, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:54 (nineteen years ago)

no big deal dude.

― Saxby D. Elder, Friday, 9 March 2007 05:58 (nineteen years ago)

Kudos on bringing pretentiousness to a genre that one would assume deters such foolishness.

― Granny Dainger, Friday, 9 March 2007 21:14 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, so because it is black music from the 50's and 60's, it couldn't possibly have any nuance to it? Fuck off.

― Saxby D. Elder, Friday, 9 March 2007 22:33 (nineteen years ago)

http://usera.imagecave.com/scottbakalar/blogstuff2/trainwreck.jpg

― The Reverend, Friday, 9 March 2007 22:38 (nineteen years ago)

There are like 8 million things wrong with what you just said.

― Granny Dainger, Friday, 9 March 2007 22:41 (nineteen years ago)

Saxby, I think I understand.

The confusion may come in because when R&B morphed into Soul then morphed into Funk, R&B was still the umbrella term. When Funk died down, the term R&B came back out front. At least this is my interpretation.

I'd say pre-Soul is more or less pre-1960, save for the big 4 Soul pioneers (Ray Charles, James Brown, Jackie Wilson, and Sam Cooke).

Louis Jordan is arguably a Swing/R&B hybrid, but he certainly weighs in heavily.

Wynonie Harris is easily in my top couple. Who Threw the Whiskey in the Well is pretty much an antehm in my home.

More than that, Stick McGhee's Drinkin' Wine gets play near daily and I've spent too much time trying to emulate his cadence.

Wild Bill Moore is from Detroit, so that ways in more for me than it should.

I'd always thought of Lonnie Johnson's Tomorrow Night as a Country song when hearing it in passing as a kid, but apprantly, this heart wrenching ballad is considerd R&B. This song alone gives him a nomination.

But I think Big Joe Turner may win just on catalog alone.

― PappaWheelie V, Friday, 9 March 2007 23:04 (nineteen years ago)

He isn't the greatest of all time, but, man, do I love Alexander O'Neal and Hearsay in particular.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 9 March 2007 23:31 (nineteen years ago)

There are like 8 million things wrong with what you just said.

I am listening....

― Saxby D. Elder, Saturday, 10 March 2007 00:10 (nineteen years ago)

tackling a nuanced genre does not necessitate pretentiousness.
you made an assumption about why i said what i said (and a further assumption as to what I thought your pretentiousness was based on) that was based on nothing other than preconceived notions floating around in your massive, puffed up brain.
a subset of jazz could be labeled "black music from the 50s and 60s", and I would by no means be surprised to find pretentiousness part and parcel of its discussion (generally it isn't on ILM though). not to mention the fact that there's much "white music from the XX's and XX's" that, like old rnb, I also think don't naturally lend themselves to pretentiousness. If you went onto a discussion of New Jersey hair metal bands from the 80s and made condescending comments like you did here...

― Granny Dainger, Saturday, 10 March 2007 00:24 (nineteen years ago)

If you went onto a discussion of New Jersey hair metal bands from the 80s and made condescending comments like you did here...

You know, you have a marked tendency to not finish your thoughts, or really START them. I don't understand any of what you are saying, only enough to know that you sound like an ass and, more importantly, though I might have misinterpreted what you originally said (which would have been easy to do since it was a fragment of a point at best and you are not a very good writer), you have not even indicated what was so pretentious about the discussion I attempted to initiate or anything I might have said therein that you would consider pretentious. I don't know what you mean by my "massive puffed up brain", (or how you arrived at that conclusion, however vague and specious) but frankly I am ready to take that as a compliment due to your total inability to effectively make any point whatsoever and what I am beginning to imagine is by comparison your "diminutive, deflated brain".

You basically said that you couldn't imagine anyone making R&B into anything "pretentious" (not that I even did!), a statement which I associate with the implicit notion that its raw simplicity would preclude an even theoretical pretentious discussion which might take place about it, which I took as ignorant if not completely racist.

I have seen pretentious discussions here about the Stooges but I guess that's OK, right?

And what the fuck, do you have some sort of pretentiometer over there? I mean, who gives a fuck anyway if something on ILM is pretentious?! Why don't you hang out in the Arcade Fire thread and nail some of those people?

I am just trying to talk about some R&B shit in here man and except for the few people who have demonstrated a reasonable understanding of it, there doesn't seem to be much interest in it anyway, so fuck it. I had already given up on expecting any interesting replies a while ago (Pappa Wheelie came in at the last second to give me a glimmer of hope).

BTW, as you can see upthread, I am not about getting into personal scraps with people in here, just to talk about music. I don't care about the politics or personalities of ILM at all. By the time I hit "submit", I will have forgotten your name. Are you just trolling because I really doubt that I am going to bother with you again unless you respond with something that at least makes any sense or is about R&B music.

― Saxby D. Elder, Saturday, 10 March 2007 05:33 (nineteen years ago)

I think it's the quotation marks that made you come off as pretentious.

― The Brainwasher, Saturday, 10 March 2007 08:17 (nineteen years ago)

Under your criteria just about every black singer in the 60s made both "R&B" and "Soul" records - and most made gospel ones as well. bugger your narrow record bins.

― UncleTomfly, Saturday, 10 March 2007 09:42 (nineteen years ago)

I think it's the quotation marks that made you come off as pretentious.

Yeah, that sure is precious.

― Saxby D. Elder, Saturday, 10 March 2007 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

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