Favorite P&J No. 6 Album (1971-2005)

Can we at least wait for the yearly polls to be done? I'm having a redundancy attack.

If The Chronic weren't on here this would be a lot tougher.

yeah pretty much.

19999999999

Jeez, this list is mostly pretty dire post-1999, I'd say. I'm voting Joy of Cooking because it's first, and, well, because somebody's gotta (we must honor our traditions after all, y'all).

P.S. I do actually really like the record!

We must honor excessive use of the comma, too, apparently.

I'm actually voting Joy of Cooking too. And one of the great band names of all-time.

Crap, I just noticed Licensed to Ill on the list. Oh well, too late to do anything about it now. Besides, I voted for that one in the '86 poll.

Katy Lied. I hate voting for all the old records, but things were really better back then, man.

albums from this I still have in their entirety: Katy Lied, Rocket To Russia, Into The Music, Reckoning, Licensed To Ill, Straight Outta Compton, Whip-Smart, Supa Dupa Fly.

Reckoning's the sentimental favorite but I'm tempted to go with Supa Dupa Fly.

Royal Scam!

It's Katy Lied, 1999, Licensed to Ill, or Supa Dupa Fly. I listened to the Beasties last weekend, so it wins.

Straight Outta Compton hands down, for me.

Reckoning, my fav REM record and the one I come back to the most.

1999 ftw

I voted for either The Chronic or Aquemini. I can't remember which.

1. Beasties
2. Bruce ('78)
3. Probably one of the Steely Dan albums
4. Probably the other Steely Dan album
5. Prince or Ramones I guess

Darkness is great, but I hate the goddamn lame bar band gone arena rock production so much that I never actually want to listen to it. When the hell are they going to remaster the Springsteen catalogue anyway?

oh shit how'd I miss 1999?

goddamn lame bar band gone arena rock production

I honestly don't know what this is referring to, really -- They were a bar band that played arenas; why wouldn't the production reflect that? Anyway, Darkness used to be my favorite Springsteen LP. Now it'd probably be a contest between that one, the first one, and maybe the second and third ones. I'm perplexed that it's not getting more mentions here.

I've spent some time exploring Joy of Cooking this year (see Rolling Country thread -- a nice outtake CD came out this year too), though not that debut LP in particular (which I think I have tried exploring before.) Interesting band, but I still don't get what Xgau xtc. saw in them, really. I keep wanting them to turn into Quarterflash, but they never do.

Since it's got "Adam Raised a Cain" it'll never be my favorite.

But "Adam Raised a Cain" is a fantastic song/performance, Alfred--one of the best things Bruce ever did!

I honestly don't know what this is referring to, really -- They were a bar band that played arenas; why wouldn't the production reflect that?

To be honest, I have no real problem with either bar bands or arenas. But when you mix the two up it can get a bit nauseating at times (to me, anyhow). Then again, I generally can't stand that late '70s Jimmy Iovine production style (see also Patti Smith's Easter, which is nevertheless infinitely more tolerable, production/sound/mastering wise). Also, I haven't actually heard Darkness on vinyl in decades, so that may have something to do with it. I mean, let's face it, the currently available CD version sounds like shit!

Ha ha, I have never even heard that Bruce album (or Licensed To Ill, Rocket to Russia, or 1999 for that matter) on CD!

His voice on "Adam Raised a Cain" is enough to make me hate babies.

fuck, I missed Darkness on here, should've voted for my favorite Bruce album.

His voice on "Adam Raised a Cain" is enough to make me hate babies my hair stand on end.

And that guitar solo!!!

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

the true winner of this poll is steely dan

Ramones: Rocket to Russia (Sire) 1977 0

The Shins: Chutes Too Narrow (Sub Pop) 2003 4

Lurkers need to be smacked.

why? for voting in this poll? just because you're arrogant doesn't mean your taste is any better than the lurkers

so Dan S and three lurkers.

does the S stand for SHINS

shins restored funk to indie

D'Angelo: Voodoo (Virgin) 2000 0 BAD

bad voters i mean

why? for voting in this poll? just because you're arrogant doesn't mean your taste is any better than the lurkers

I agree with Anthony that the Shins-lovin’ lurkers need to be smacked silly, but not because of some questionable matter of taste (I like Chutes Too Narrow plenty, thanx), but rather for keeping mum on this thread instead of having the courage to voice their convictions on this here public forum; i.e., it would have been nice to read the reasoning behind such questionable choices.

Well, just for the record, I’m not some 22 year old who’s only been listening to records from the last five years. I’m an older guy, and a music fanatic, and I’ve heard almost all of the albums on this list, most of them many times. I have been following the P&J lists since the early 80’s, and a lot of what is on these lists every year is utter crap.

For these polls I’ve decided to vote for the albums that mean the most to me, not what I think deserves the highest place in the canon. On this list I concur that that belongs to the winner. But there wasn’t another album on this list that meant as much to me as that Shins album.

The combination of the beautiful melodies and clear-voiced singing got to me on first listen, and has never tired for me. I usually focus on the music first, and lyrics later or not at all. (I think most listeners and critics focus first on one or the other, but not both.) But the lyrics on this album, while cryptic at first, gradually gathered weight the more I listened, and were just open-ended enough to allow me to project my own fantasies onto them.

I also think that while the music seems simplistic at first, it is actually incredibly complex in structure and instrumentation. The first song, with its quiet introduction, its first and second verses/choruses that are not identical to one another, its unusual harmonies, and its memorable coda, is but one good example. There are many others. In fact, there’s not one single dud of a song on this album. And it flows beautifully from start to finish. I admit that the album may be a little to melancholy for many people, but that works with the broken hearted subject matter here.

I know there are many people who love this album, and I don’t think it’s because they all have bad taste. Even Christgau, who’s opinions I don’t find myself often sharing, called this album “one of the deftest, subtlest and just plain loveliest guitar-rock albums of the decade” in his recent review of its follow-up in RS magazine.

Just for the record, I’m kind of amazed at what I consider the questionable taste of many of you who write about music for a living, even as I like the writing. In fact JN$OT, I’m surprised you would call out Shins voters, when your choice wasn’t given ANY justification except that you wanted to honor tradition. And it’s not something I think deserves to be in the top tier of these choices.

well i'm convinced

jk im being a dick

Dan, you shouldn't take the banter on these thread seriously. We've all made outrageous claims and love picking on each other. (I like the Shins album too, but as a #14 album or something).

I appreciate your saying that.

I'm a fan of Chutes Too Narrow as well, but I voted for Steely Dan.

I've noticed that nothing gets certain music geeks more apoplectic than announcing that you like the Shins. When I mentioned to a friend that Wincing the Night Away was in my top 10 this year (I'm guessing it will finish the year in the top 20), all he could do was sputter, "B-b-b-but Zach Braff!"

Yeah, I don't listen to the Shins but there's much worse indie that doesn't have any of the stigma they have.

yeah no need to be a creep about it, really

Alfred OTM! And, btw, Dan: Once again, I have no problem with anyone voting for the Shins--or anything else really--on these silly-ass poll threads; all I'm really saying is that people should stand by their choices (whatever the reasoning behind them). In other words, lurking be silly/bad form when it comes to polls. Hallelujah, brethren! Can I get an Amen?

I’m kind of amazed at what I consider the questionable taste of many of you who write about music for a living, even as I like the writing.

Dan, I have to say, I'm totally curious about what you're specifically referring to, here...

I stand by my initial statement

And I certainly didn't suggest they start posting

loud and clear

I think I've only heard the 2 Shins songs on the Garden State soundtrack, but I like them both, esp. "New Slang". (I can't believe I just admitted to having listened to the Garden State soundtrack on ILM, but whatever.) Your description of Chutes actually has made me curious to hear it. I'm a sucker for that kind of guitar-pop, no matter how unfashionable it is.

I didn't vote on this poll, but I'd like to give a vote to Doc at the Radar Station retroactively, just because it seems unfair to see it up there with a goose egg.

O. nate, it’s worth some listens, if you like that sort of thing. The tracks from Garden State are from the first album I think. I never intended to be the champion of the Shins on this thread. I was just responding to the “somebody should be smacked” bullshit that I see posted on every single one of these polls.
I agree that the Beefheart deserves some votes.

Chuck, I wasn’t calling into question the taste of anybody on this thread in particular. I just see a lot of adulatory writing about music that I think does not deserve it. Much of this is in the alt weeklies from around the country, whose contributors make up a good chunk of the P&J poll. And some of it is on blogs and online magazines. Even Simon Reynolds, one of my favorite writers, announced last week that the Black Moth Super Rainbow album was his favorite of the year so far. It’s interesting, I like its warped sound, but I don’t think it’s particularly worthy of that kind of statement (he hasn’t written about it otherwise, that I know of, but I’d be curious to hear his thoughts). And people are way to quick to jump on bandwagons, especially here on ILM and when it involves dissing an artist or group that may have risen to prominence too quickly (eg MIA at the time of her first album, which was pretty damn good, third world tourism and all. And I think she’s been more than vindicated). I just wish the voters of P&J would be a little more adventurous. There is a lot of music out there in overlooked genres or of an experimental bent that just gets ignored.

I think that music writers are always going to make judgments in matters of taste that some readers will disagree with. That doesn't necessarily mean that either side (writer or reader) has bad taste per se. I guess I've kind of come to expect that taste varies, and that what I consider good taste is not necessarily correlated to the ability to write well. However, I do find that the way that someone writes about the music can be an indication of how likely I am to agree with their taste. What I mean is what elements of the music they focus on and how perceptively they describe them. If someone writes perceptively about the elements of a piece of music, such that I can tell they're hearing the same things I'm hearing, then I think I'm more likely to arrive at similar conclusions. But if someone only writes in generalities and if they spend most of their time trying to attach an artist's sound to currently fashionable trends or to trends that they (the writer) have some agenda for or against, then I'm probably not going to agree very often with their conclusions.

Or if they spend half the review critiquing the album art, for instance.

I stand by my initial statement

-- da croupier, Thursday, 1 November 2007 16:49 (3 hours ago) Link

And I certainly didn't suggest they start posting

-- da croupier, Thursday, 1 November 2007 16:52 (3 hours ago) Link

I don't know whether to laugh or throw up. I know: both.

Feeling better yet?

O. nate you're on the mark about descriptive comments in music writing as a guage of how closely your tastes might align with the writer's. And I completely agree that it's not very useful to judge people on the basis of their taste in a particular piece of music. I'm sometimes fascinated by articles about recordings that I don't particularly like. If the writing is perceptive and convincing I'm sometimes compelled to listen again, and have come away with a new appreciation.

My favorite writing is often about stuff I've never heard. I love being drawn into a whole new world of music through a writer's enthusiasm. Reynolds' articles about hauntology are a good example. David Keenan's articles about folk music, noise, and "England's Hidden Reverse" are fascinating. Phil Sherburne's articles about minimal house and his mixtapes have kept me busy on music buying quests. I love Matos' writing. With his perspicacity and his ability to write incisively, he's becoming the new Christgau. (I just wish you would write more, Matos! :-))