POO: Madonna post-Erotica

... period deliberately picked so that you can't say "Deeper and Deeper" or "Bad Girl" which are both unbelievably ace and right up there with her 80's goodness...

'American Pie'!

This Used To Be My Playground. (great restrained drumming from the maestro, also)

Frozen, Take a Bow and Secret are really great songs also. I never really thought much of her 80's output but everytime I hear a track from her on some eighties radio station, I now realize how good those cheesy pop songs were and some of them are even artistic.

I now realize how good those cheesy pop songs were and some of them are even artistic.

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

80's Madonna tramples over the majority of the "artistic" acts from the same era with very big boots.

Let me just blearily (having just gotten up) second that.

The maestro?

"Music." It's funk-i.

Oh, wait, I CAN'T say "Deeper & Deeper"? Hmmm....that makes it significantly trickier.

I'm going to have to go with "Secret" (despite its arguable allusions to heroin) or "Frozen" (despite its video's ham-fisted 'goth' imagery).

"80's Madonna tramples over the majority of the 'artistic' acts from the same era with very big boots."

This is a rather broad statement, you realize. While even I cannot resist the pop majesty of Madonna, at the end of the day, her 80's material for the most part is simply that -- pop. In that context, it is untouchable in its greatness, but is still ultimately limited in its depth and scope.

That said, I live and die by Killing Joke, so obviously....what do I know? Carry on, Madonna.

In that context, it is untouchable in its greatness, but is still ultimately limited in its depth and scope.

Works for me on a far greater level than the overrated tosh she's put out over the last ten years. And that includes Erotica.

Having been 8 when Erotica was released, I hardly knew the early Madonna. "Take a Bow" is just a very affecting ballad; I didn't even question why she was considered the best in the game.

"her 80's material for the most part is simply that -- pop. In that context, it is untouchable in its greatness, but is still ultimately limited in its depth and scope."

Surely not. Pop is a broad musical horizon, with plenty of room for depth, creativity and invention. Madonna has been testament to that - even her 80's work.

it's clearly Take a Bow.

Oh please! "Take A Bow" makes me want to gouge out my long-suffering eardrums with a rusty fondue fork. Madonna's ballads were always kinda crap (the absolute nadir being "Crazy for You" and the exception being "Live to Tell"), but "Take a Bow" is insipid, whiney, mawkish detritus ripe for the garbage pail.

Ray of light

"Skin", although part of me really wants to say "Human Nature" or "Bedtime Story".

"Beautiful Stranger" - trust Madge to actually do 'retro' well!

"""Although conventional wisdom says Erotica is the beginning of Madonna's crap period, conventional wisdom is DEAD WRONG!"""

Aye aye! This is what I've been saying for years, yet the Ned Raggets of the world never believed me!!! Bad Girl may be the very apex of all her lyrical aspirations as it's her best written song bar none, despite the fact that she sounds like she's getting glue peeled off her inner thighs as she wails it with that pseuda-falsetta. Yet the vocal shakiness only adds to the emotion.

Post-Erotica, it has been rough, and Bedtime Stories is a very middle- brow album. "Secret" was nice in 9th grade, but every year after 1995 it's sounded more and more dull and drowsy. The title track sounds more like a Bjork song anyway, as it was written by her, and "Human Nature" gets grating after a while. "Take a Bow" is pure schlock, but the part where she tries to fuck the TV in the video is very funny. And what else can we say about Ray of Light that hasn't already been said, except that it's overwhelmingly boring and preachy?

However, I think that there are two legitimately great (albeit neglected) songs, and neither were singles. "Inside of Me" is striking when you really pay attention to it, as it's a really classy, lush number, but it's also amazingly versatile. The malleability of the lyrics is intriguing: she could be singing about Dennis Rodman's rod, but she (allegedly) wrote it about her mother. Plus it has more of the fake inhaling-exhaling sounds that we've all come to love, and even has a standard sexual double-entendre title as a bonus, that only she does best.

Also, there's "Candy Perfume Girl," on the middle of a humdrum "trip-hoppy" collection of songs, this one actually gets it right. The neo-psychedeia swirls through you, and the Obrit-electro- flourishes somehow seem more spontaneous, instead of mechanically studied, as if he was following some sort of recipe. And with lyrics not exactly being Madonna's strong suit, wouldn't you rather want her singing some nonsense-jargon "poetry," anyway, so as to not distract you from her stabs at "profundity," ? C'mon, this is the woman who wrote "Shoo Be Doo." I'd rather have her sing free-associative words than spiritual advice.

There are some other inspired moments, here and there, but on the whole she hasn't been bursting with creativity since Erotica. And that last album was the worst, I swear, it was just very depressing to hear. Worn out synthisizer squiggles, overused vocoder garbage, tired '80s nostalgia, generic titles. No melodies!

"overrated tosh...And that includes Erotica"

Oh no! That shatters my heart, I'm just going to go shit on my copy of *Loveless* now, excuse me, even though duh I'm not.

I am stunned to hear that Alex in NYC likes Madonna. Clearly it is time for me to buy my first Madonna album. Which one is the least dance-crazed? And has the fewest shaky-voiced ballads?

note to self: make appointment with therapist pronto.

Welcome back Vic. ;-)

:) I'm going to convert if it's the last thing I do Ned haha ..I even asked Chistgau in that "questions from the dean" thing just so I can offer "professional" critical proof in my future arguments, so there! Ha!

Desperate, but not serious.

Definitely Bedtime Story

though it's tough, that whole album rocks.

ooh candy perfume girl OTM

RREEEEEALLY hot

"Sorry."

"Beautiful Stranger"

Although conventional wisdom says Erotica is the beginning of Madonna's crap period

Um...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:I%27m_Breathless.jpg

Although conventional wisdom says Erotica is the beginning of Madonna's crap period...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/I%27m_Breathless.jpg

"Secret" or "What it Feels Like for a Girl"

Actually, I probably like "Human Nature" a little more than "Secret". Bedtime Stories is the Madonna album I think I listen to the most, but few of the individual songs really stand out to me. I think Madonna's voice works very nicely with the sort-of textural Dallas Austin/Babyface production. It very well may be the most 'middlebrow' Madonna album, as someone mentions up thread, but I like it for different reasons than I like most of her other stuff.

i listen to bedtime the most too. it is very textrual but i think it has a lot of standout tracks. i like human nature a TAD more than secret too, i think.

"sorry" otm.

Beautiful Stranger

I love a lot of Madonna post-Erotica so this is difficult to chose but I'd say either "Get Together" or "Sky Fits Heaven".

how have i not posted on this thread!

'die another day' or 'hung up'.

'Hung Up', no or about it.

Although conventional wisdom says Erotica is the beginning of Madonna's crap period, conventional wisdom is DEAD WRONG!

Conventional wisdom is right, although Madonna's crap period lasted for two albums only. The following four albums included three of her very best.

Her best post-Erotica moment is probably "The Power Of Goodbye".

"Die Another Day," even if it's almost ruined by the bizarre interjection of "Sigmund Freud! Analyze this!"

Which one is the least dance-crazed?

This one is very easy to respond to. That would be "Like a Prayer", followed by "True Blue"

And has the fewest shaky-voiced ballads?

Certainly not "Like a Prayer". So I guess True Blue is the album for you then. :)

Hmmm. Of course, "I'm Breathless" is neither dance-crazed nor does it contain a lot of ballads. But obviously it is still not the one album to check out.

Who would listen to a Madonna album that's not "dance-crazed"?

omg Geir are you saying Bedtime Stories is crap?

I'm speechless.

I don't even mind Erotica that much.

True Blue is really, really beautiful.

I'm sure this is a boring answer, but "Frozen".

u r halerious son

Did I just get "sonned"?

"Beautiful Stranger" or "Candy Perfume Girl".

omg Geir are you saying Bedtime Stories is crap?

"Erotica" is crap. "Bedtimes Stories" is just way below par.

Who would listen to a Madonna album that's not "dance-crazed"?

Lots and lots of people enjoy "Like a Prayer" a lot. With the exception of "Express Yourself" and "Keep It Together", that album is hardly very dance oriented.

"Like a Prayer"? "Cherish"? "Love Song"? "Til Death To Us Part"?

"Beautiful Stranger" by a mile.

"Like a Prayer"? "Cherish"? "Love Song"? "Til Death To Us Part"?

"Love Song", maybe. The rest, I reckon, are mainly just normal uptempo pop songs. Sure you can dance to them, but they aren't typical dance numbers.

Like a Prayer, wow.

and Bedtime Stories is far from below par in my book - just a different style.

Frozen, Hung Up and Don't Tell Me are all Fantastic. As good as anything she ever did (not said that lightly.) And I never understood why Hollywood wasn't UNIVERSALLy loved. It's great, it kinda has this stupid campfire-ey rounds melody and then it goes all squelchy, and I love when she goes all pretentious and that "change the channel" bit is about as fire as she's gone in quite some time. (Also Beautiful Stranger in fact shitloads extra. This thread is bollocks)

the JLC remix of 'Hollywood' totally owns the original.

I don't know what that is.