Say Something Original About John Lennon

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I've just had an epiphany and done a 180 and realised "Imagine" is actually great, nihilistic satire. 'Imagine' it was written by Randy Newman or Cathal Coughlan and you'll see what I mean! I think it's a merciless-but-hopeless (self)-immolation of left politics, which somebody from Liverpool should definitely have a bit of knowledge of! The world he's describing in this song is either a)heroin heaven b)'hell' c)a dubious utopia designed by Demos, which would be stolen by New Labour and trumpeted to the press as a grand initiative and eventually go the way of all stupid ideas. "All the people living life in peace" sounds a bit similar to "they all look so strange" in the Stones' "Salt of the Earth", and JL was far more prone to fits of megalomania and misanthropy than the Stones were (I think those 'people living life in peace' are the very same 'fucking peasants as far as I can see') Either that, or it perfectly sums up the world NOW, except in skeptical fashion. Not that I want to ever HEAR it again, understand, but JL was pretty good at the fuck-everything I-hate-myself-and-I-want-to-die thing ("Look at Me", "I am the Walrus"), so maybe "Imagine" is his "All Apologies", stylistically speaking? ('Cept JL was a bit more 'literate' than the Seattle junkie)

― dave q, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Well I tried OK!

― dave q, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Be interesting to see what he said about the song specifically, actually...

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

check out the box set that came out a few years ago and you'll be renewed.

if not that then 'Pussycats' with Lennon and Nilsson, timeless

― Steve K, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think Lennon really was on about peace and love with that song (and I also think he was ultimately the most wishy-washy of the Beatles -- Paul never went from militant to hippie to druggie in the same album), but it is interesting to point out that the meaning of a song can be changed based merely on who is singing it. The lyrics to Newman's "He Gives Us All His Love" would make total sense coming from a Christian rocker, but because it is Newman singing, we assume he is being ironic.

― dleone, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey, "Imagine" is satire? I guess that makes its bland, trite melody subversive and sinister instead...or something. And "Give Peace a Chance" is a Swiftian razor blade gouging at the veins of the...oh shit, my sarcasm circuits just overloaded.

― Nick A., Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

y'know what's always bugged me ? 'nothin to kill or die for/and no religion too'

'either' surely. it even *sounds* better.

― piscesboy, Thursday, 18 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd go with "nor not any religion, y'all," but that's just me.

― John Darnielle, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Not totally original (comes from a Quasi interview), but some of Lennon's Beatles lyrics involved hideously mangled sentences. Nowhere Man: "Knows not where he's going to." I Want To Hold Your Hand: "It's such a feeling that my love I can't hide." Sounds OK when sung, sophomoric when read.

― mike, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

John Lennon could not, no matter how concertedly he tried, be American. Then he got shot, then he was canonised in America (cos there's money in death in America)then some of that canonisation drifted across, Chernobyl like, from America. (as most things do from America). Then he became American. (In the same way that immigrants from all corners of the world became American). Then "Imagine" became American.

― Kris England., Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

just a thought, but in the spirit of equality /fairness it behoves us to remember that macca wrote 'soily' the opening verse of which goes 'soily, the cat in the velvet pants says it's oily'

not mangled or grammaticaly incorrect, but terrible shit all the same.

lennon did write 'i read the news, oh boy' surely the greatest opening line in history.

― piscesboy, Saturday, 20 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i've always suspected this, yeah -- as wishy washy as possible and complete smug weekend socialism -- maybe many people took it literally which kind'a means it works both ways as a sort of public art plea for realism, peace, hope, proper politics, whatever-you- want -- yes an American oriented record for the viet-capit public

look at him lashing out at mass-sell quaintness/ra-ra ie mac via "how do you sleep ?" -- it's on the same album -- was he that bitter and pissed off then, as he cut that album ? sounded like he was

give peace .. instant karma .. cold turkey .. but more than anything, the admission that the beatles couldn't do anymore on the primal scream album, surely the most effective vehicle for communicating honesty from the heart (ie this is jl primal screaming, honestly, what he really thinks) -- and the public did not understand these songs, so let's try something simple ...

so yeah, "imagine" the song a cynical joke anthem -- no other lennon material has ever sounded so airbrushed, manufactured, satirical

― george gosset, Saturday, 20 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

four years pass...

guys i just downloaded xtina's cover of "mother" and it's fucking awesome

― ghost rider, Thursday, 28 June 2007 14:28 (eighteen years ago)

ten years pass...

in memoriam poor old george gosset, who i argued with endlessly in the old days

http://freakytrigger.co.uk/hidden-landscapes/2018/05/no-longer-a-debate-lennons-revolutions-50-years-on/

― mark s, Thursday, 31 May 2018 19:59 (eight years ago)

four years pass...

Don't know if this thread or another would be better, but this interview with May Pang about her new documentary is crucial reading.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/may-pang-on-her-lost-weekend-with-john-lennon-that-never-really-ended-i-dont-have-closure-191416238.html

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 12 April 2023 20:53 (three years ago)

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