Quit stripping away the soul maaaaan...

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I just dont like to spoil things that I like with over mystifying and speculating like bad music journo's do.It kind of takes the beauty away.

What prompts people to say this? This was said on the Pavement thread where Pavement fans were talking about Pavement. Obviously it's a bit of a bizarre attitude to people talking about something they like. Why would someone take this defensive stance? Is it because they're afraid they aren't articulate enough to discuss the thing they like in such depth?

What's the root of this, it's not that uncommon an attitude I don't think. What do you think?

― Ronan, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

New answers but come on guyz don't overintellectualise it, just feel it yeah?

― Ronan, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

< facetious answer > repressed fear that what they're listening to won't stand up to scrutiny, that it isn't actually that good after all< /facetious answer >

< real answer > i don't know < /real answer >

― gareth, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I feel that this has to do with the notion that good music just is. It does not need justification, explanation. Good music is made with single minded artists, who are rarely good analysts. Reviewers are torn between their admiration for this attitude, and their own "job description" which is to analyse.

― Siegbran Hetteson, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

< rockist answer > belief that art is not participatory but is mystical and separate from the answer, attempts to participate/involve doomed to failure because listener not on level with artist. battle of unequals. obviously this more prevalent with rock bands where the artist is clearly defined and font of art, doesn't work in the mesh of dance musics where participation is more prevalent < /rockist answer>

― gareth, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

separate from the answer should have read separate from the listener

― gareth, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

as in reinforcement of hierarchy, debasement of democratic

― gareth, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

listen all i meant with this statement all i was trying to say was quit talking a lot without saying anything.I am not the most articulate of men granted but ive got the right to my opinion.

thank you and good night

― declan mccann, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But Declan, what's unclear is what you WANT us to say. If you're looking for something specific in criticism that's fair enough, but assuming that everyone's going to agree with you on what to expect is a bit much.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

oh and gareth your analysis of my statement was bull,which i think over all kind of proves my point.I dont see performers as some kind of godlike entity seperate from myself.The're just some guys/girls who make some noise which i happen to like.You may also be interested to know that i have been a performer and writer of music (including dance music)for many years as well as a dj and the artist being equal to the audiance is key to my philosophy.Why do you think i like pavement so much.there hardly a band that dominate the audiance its slacker music not cock rock for chists sake.

― declan mccann, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

apologies declan, i wasn't analysing your statement, (i haven't read the pavement thread) but the ethos ronan was describing. i'm not saying you fit that ethos, and i didn't mean to link pavement in any way, it was more of a generic abstract observation. no offence meant on my part.

― gareth, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

as in, i was answering the idea that discussion/analysis/talking about x detracts from x.

― gareth, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

no offence taken.sorry for flying of the handle.

― declan mccann, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

dear ned say whatever you want man dont worry i dont mind. Seriously though im genuinly sorry if i pissed you all off.Im just an angry scotsman with an axe to grind i dont know what came over me.

― declan mccann, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey, there's nothing wrong with passion. :-) Stick around, you'll find this board a good place.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This thread has become sick-making, like an episode of Family Ties.

A great artist once said: "I have no message to get across. I have nothing to communicate. I am not misunderstood."

One theory could be that people shy away from attaching greater meaning or significance to a piece of art, for fear that the artist will then proceed to discredit this himself.

The artist? Mr. Stephen Malkmus of Pavement...

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Why didn't he spare us all then?

― Ronan, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

And who really believes that? If indeed some fans are afraid of the work not standing up to scrutiny lord knows the artist is no more reliable.

― Ronan, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

reliable interpretation = always ask mark s

― mark s, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

except re the theories of mark s haha

― Josh, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Going back to the original post, I must admit I agree with Declan to a point.

I don't like reading reviews/critiques of material I have already formed an opinion on...

If I agree with a comment, there was little point in reading it (other than for the warm, fuzzy feeling inside). And, as Declan rightly says, there is a tendency for fans of a certain type of music to be over-analytical of it. (And I'm not singling out anything specific here.)

Alternatively, if I disagree with a comment, that can be equally unproductive. Firstly, I am not going to revise my opinion based on somebody else's, and secondly I think we're all a little bit upset if people don't share our likes / dislikes. (However high-minded / thick-skinned we like to think we are.)

Gareth's initial reply was: "< facetious answer > repressed fear that what they're listening to won't stand up to scrutiny, that it isn't actually that good after all< /facetious answer >"

Don't we all feel that to a certain degree?

Comments / abuse welcome (well, not the abuse bit...)

― Nick, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

no we don't all feel that way.

― Josh, Thursday, 25 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

they are not theories josh they are FACTUAL CONSTELLATIONS OF FACTS

― mark s, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I pretty much only like reading about stuff I already know, because I'm hoping the writer will have either noticed something I didn't, or because they've put something I have noticed in an intelligent or pretty way. And disagreeing with people is fun, too!

― Tom, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That's fair enough -

I guess if everybody was like me, there would be no fan clubs.

And then where would we get our posters / stickers from?

(And also, there would be no new life, and civilisation as we know it would be wiped out in a few decades.)

― Nick, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

mark s = benjamin? or capt. kirk?

― Sterling Clover, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

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