Article Response: The Jubilee Stuff

S'alright. Dare I say a bit rutted in parts?

haven't finished it yet. have been reading it on the bus, on connex south east, and also on the waterloo & city. i like the pinefox's writing when he engages with something as he has done here (on the boards he can sometimes be too airily dismissive, so it is good to see an extended piece)

i do think PF limits himself sometimes though, i like the open, question-oriented style of the piece, but then there will be elements he'll address but then dismiss, eg the bit on japanese music, is it cool? he asks the question, but then we get "i'd hardly know", which is fine, but there is a feeling of a perverse sense of pride of ignorance, "of course i wouldn't know about such a thing" - there is an element of this throughout the whole piece, and i do think it limits PFs writing somewhat

PF always has good and interesting things to say about england, but when there is any element of 'modern today' its like there is a refusal to engage, has PF anything to tell us about how the 'england' he is looking at is expressed/represented by so solid crew for example? should he? another question, perhaps not, but you get the feeling that such things are an irrelevancy. of course its a personal piece, and the terms are dictated by the writer, and there should be no 'obligation' to look at xyz, but i'd like to see PF look at such things more. (this is perhaps speaking in general rather than specifically about this piece)

Robin C is, of course, good with such things, the clashes and continuity of successive englands, the relationship with america and europe etc

i haven't finished the piece yet though, i shall finish it on the GNER tonight. but i have found it a very enjoyable piece so far...

i am unable to print it off - techy glitches at my end

i wonder what the pinefox thinks of the points i made here. and i wonder, am i the only one who'll comment on this piece.

Gareth - actually I appreciated, and enjoyed reading your comments. In some ways I felt you were OTM, but that what is a problem for you isn't a problem for me. (This is predictable.)

one or two specifics:

>>> there will be elements he'll address but then dismiss, eg the bit on japanese music, is it cool? he asks the question, but then we get "i'd hardly know", which is fine, but there is a feeling of a perverse sense of pride of ignorance, "of course i wouldn't know about such a thing"

On this very specific point you are misreading: as far as I can remember, I wasn't talking about Japanese pop (I've never heard any) but about the idea of modern Japan. I think what I was saying was: I'd better halt speculation here cos I just don't know enough, and doubtless other people do.

>>> when there is any element of 'modern today' its like there is a refusal to engage

Actually I felt that article was more open to 'modern today' (grate new term! should be an ilx meme!) than anything else I've written. Probably that shows we are coming at it from different ends of the scale.

>>> has PF anything to tell us about how the 'england' he is looking at is expressed/represented by so solid crew for example?

No. Who are they?

>>> should he? another question, perhaps not, but you get the feeling that such things are an irrelevancy. of course its a personal piece, and the terms are dictated by the writer, and there should be no 'obligation' to look at xyz

Here again I think you are absolutely OTM.

do you not feel that approaching the things you are not so aware of, that you could improve, or gain different perspectives? and that this may be a valuable exercise. i only wonder how far dismissiveness can get you. i mean taking the things that make the 'main subject' interesting, and placing them in a wider context could show things in new and interesting lights. whether you know who so solid crew are or whether it is a pretense is unimportant, but the fact whether engaging with such a topic in itself could cast new lights on other things, by filling out and illuminating 'england' is surely of some merit and worth?

or, to put it more clumsily.

Gareth - I am not sure what you mean now, though I think you take very good and interesting photos, and I might ask your permission to use some of them for something one day.

[BUT / nb: for me, that particular pic you posted on that thread has nowt to do with the Sundays (though some of your other pics might).]

Idea that "we need 'wider context'" - well, the number of potential contexts is infinite. The particular context of a given work, text, statement, whatever, presumably depends what you are trying to do in a particular instance. (and all texts are in principle open to recontextualization.)