Swayzak - Dirty Dancing (and indiephile vocalphobia)

"Serious" rock-oriented people do seem to have problems with the sorts of lyrics and vocal styles that are used in dance music, yes: it's a very different line of approach.

Also the fact that no one actually "performs" dance music creates this distance wherein that "serious" rock type can imagine that the creator doesn't really "mean" that house beat or diva sample -- you know, he's just "working with it" or "exploring it" or what have you -- whereas anyone in-studio actually opening their mouth and creating it means taking complete responsibility.

I guess that's what I have to expect when I read reviews by people I'm DAMN SURE find nothing redeemable about, say, the Basement Jaxx - sometimes I feel like I'm speaking a different language from them.

Nab, are you suggesting that the dissatisfaction arises when the "distance" a rock-oriented listener senses in electronic music is disrupted by real-time vocals in said music? That seems compelling, and, on first glance, pretty plausible.

diva house is the turd of all evil.

maybe that's where it comes from?

dustedmagazine is teh win.

well said.

i have decided that i only like vocal house anymore. all the post-rhythmogenesis click/pop/scrape merchants can just...eat a dick.

the swayzak track on the digital disco comp is ace and a half.

If it weren't for Metro Area* (I would say that), Hakan Lidbo would reign over Digital Disco** -- the two Data 80 tracks are spectacular.

I didn't care for Dirty Dancing after two listens. I've grown to love it since, though I Dance Alone gets skipped past every time.

*Or, as they're referred to on the track listing, "Metro Aera".

**Is Digital Disco the worst title ever?

* i'm a little pissed that it's a track from the album/

** yes it is.

*And, unfortunately, it isn't the full version on Metro Area 4. It would've been cool if they picked one of the tracks not used on the LP -- like Art of Hot or maybe even Tonky Pumpz. Miura does seem to be the logical choice, given the context. It's also a great point of entry.

**Yes... indeed.

Actually I can't *wait* to see all the confused reviews when the local music journos who write about all things Mille Plateux/Force Inc. get given Digital Disco. Especially for tracks like "No Fool No More".

my favorite tracks are probably the data 80's...but i'm cheesy like that.

really, the other end of the spectrum - stuff like pink eyed pony or the really minimal perlon/klang stuff - feels very exhausted. it could just be me (well, duh, obv part of it is), but i can't see how much further into their own navels they could possibly go, exploring rhythm, echo, and decay.

Hadn't heard Sylk 130's Nu Shooz cover before -- I guarantee that will be the most hated track on there. Admittedly the original is much better, but still...

My favourite stuff on the comp. is that which actually perfectly sums up the title - which itself made me think of "Tied To The 80s". I love the Yoko Mono mix of Care's "Disconnected" - like Yoko's own "Higher Than Phunk" it's entirely based around taking "Tied To The 80s" and making it even more (more More MORE!) effervescent.

"really, the other end of the spectrum - stuff like pink eyed pony or the really minimal perlon/klang stuff - feels very exhausted. it could just be me (well, duh, obv part of it is), but i can't see how much further into their own navels they could possibly go, exploring rhythm, echo, and decay."

Jess I'm sympathetic to this line of argument, but are any of the artists really going any further in this direction? As far as I can tell they're *all* moving towards pop, disco, electro, whatever. Even Crane A.K., if "Supermarket" is anything to go by (though they still probably wouldn't fit on Digital Disco).

Also I think there's a really fine line between the bloodless abstract stuff like Pink Eyed Pony and a sexier brand of minimalism (I'm thinking of A Rocket In Dub's "Rocket #3", and anything by Jeff Bennet) that even the still-minimal artists are increasingly trying to land on the right side of. It's all about balancing the dub of Pole etc. with the dub of Strictly Rhythm and 2-step - and when they get it right it sounds like music that could never be exhausted.

Heh, this is good timing: today I brought Digital Disco to work with me to listen to for the first time.

tim: probably not, but i was thinking more along the lines of the more idm-y side of things, the type of artists the reviewer in clarke's swayzak review would venerate...there seem to have been a rash of post-force tracks/kompakt click&cut'ers who suddenly now had a rhythmic bed (that scything back-beat)to graft their sound effects onto. zzzz.

(that said: i was listening to the first two jurgen paape 12"s on kompakt this morning and was amazed [again] at how much they sound like a less-active mouse on mars [or vice versa, flip it and reverse it.])

Funny you should say that, Jess; one of the only other records this guy had reviewed for the site was the new 'Pusher!

Hardly "the more IDM-y SIDE of things" surely, but I think that only proves the point further...

i really do think that this vocalphobia (i mean, it's always been fairly apparently in things like the pfork reviews of discovery and rooty, which are real nadirs) does stem from more and more hardline idm-type reviewers being turned on to "microhouse" via early mri or what have you and then reacting to exactly the sort of pop sweetening that tim was talking about above. that, and the fact that as they slowly move outward into the "house" pond as a whole they realize that it's not all pops and scrapes and little scritchy pole-dub noises. (the same reason why a lot of people turned onto mike ink or whatever via matador aren't necessarily rushing out to embrace blaze or maw.)

in other words, for every philip shereburne pledging allegiance to idm for years and then having a Miraculous House Conversion in public, there are plenty of reactionaries left.

I think when you're working from a framework in which rock (especially indie-rock, which is all about pushing faux-boundaries) is at your center, you come to expect from other genres certain things and *only* those certain things. You know, "I'm not much into techno or whatever, but there's a few guys -- Squarepusher, Amon Tobin, Aphex Twin -- who do some pretty crazy shit" (nb: be very wary of people who only find the good in "crazy shit" -- it means: (a) they aren't willing to engage the genre with any degree of nuance, or to understand it on its own terms; and/or (b) they have a very enfeebled and crass idea of what constitues "avant-garde" or boundary-pushing, not to mention some pretty troublesome ideas about the relative worth of various approaches to music).

And Jess, while I think your points are very good, I'm afraid you may be giving these types a little too much credit. You're probably on the right track with this particular reviewer, who admits a fondness for early Swayzak (particularly _Snowboarding in Argentina_, which I haven't heard), but a lot of others I've encountered -- I have to wonder if they're *ever* going to open themselves up to any enjoyment to be had outside a very narrow circle of approaches to electronic music production...

Sorry, "relative" should read "absolute" in my last post...

Well, sort of a dumb question here, but anyway: is it that many writers (and readers, and listeners!) don't have the tools/terminology to describe what they are hearing? And if so, does that make appreciation of it -- or rather, makes the structure of who can appreciate it, 'correctly' -- a bit exclusionary? Clarke, you've been hinting a bit at this in the thread -- does learning to appreciate what you're driving at mean learning a new language? Maybe this applies less to what happens when those already in the field encounter these releases you're all discussing, but if to The Vast Majority of Potential Listeners -- and I'm not excluding myself in many instances -- all that is heard is, say, 'techno blips and bloops,' then that's how it's going to be assessed and discussed. Obviously this is hardly a new problem or anything, but I think there could be a bit more sympathy here for those who want to investigate further but might be a touch curious as to what it takes to be able to talk about things...

well, yeah ned, but i bet you could take a kid who had been raised on nothing but chart house and trance from germany and play him a selection of the more pop-rock indie bands (or nu-metal or whatever) and he'd probably say "there's a guitar und drums und screaming." so yeah, not a new problem at all; when i first heard techno/house as a teenager it was completely alien to me, nothing made sense except "here is a repeating drum beat and some video game noises overtop." but i'm STILL discerning the difference between genres/artists/scenes if only to see if there are actually any. i don't think this is an activity that stops if you're a lifelong fan of a certain type of music (or even for a few years.)

i'm not sure if this is necessarily the readers or listeners job, but i damn sure do think it's the writers job, to be able to place a piece of music within appropriate context (even to compare it something completely different). clarke's review is a bit of an extreme, but if i hear someone reviewing jeff mills and calling him "house" i'm going to be a bit suspicious of this reviewers insight. there's a difference between splitting hairs (where does "grindcore" end and "sludge death" begin or "deep trance" and "psy trance") and actually having a basic grounding in what you're talking about.

No, you're quite right -- in fact that was the type of answer I was hoping to hear! Many differences to my mind really aren't all that apparent, or at least don't leap out at once even after constant exposure. I have a sense, in many cases, but not necessarily either the exact way to describe what I'm hearing or the confidence to be able to say so (Mark P doubtless agrees with my self-assessment, though perhaps more on the first point than the second ;-)).

Having the basic grounding, though, can potentially be a bit hard? Maybe? I don't think I would have had the confidence to call microhouse, say, a variety of house. I don't know WHAT I would call it, if I had just encountered it straight up. I might have had a guess or two, though.

Late revival just to say that "Make Up Your Mind" is an amazing track and works for me in a way that Herbert tracks don't - not to just dis Matthew Herbert, but it just seems like they're comparable.

Spencer have you heard 'Different'? it's quite similar to 'Make Up Your Mind' but imo better - some amazing sounds on it. i may have to YSI or something.

can you please ysi that stevem?