DOES anyone still dislike hip-hop and/or R&B?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not just not listen to it much but actually dislike it?

And if so, why?

(if you want to answer this thread anonymously to escape the wrath of Trife then feel free)

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:30 (twenty-three years ago)

This is actually a serious question. Ten years ago there were lots of people who hated rap. What happened to all of them? Is the idea of people who really hate hip-hop a bit of a straw man?

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Tom, I can't believe you're asking this as a serious question when the pinefox walks among us.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:31 (twenty-three years ago)

I sort of meant 'apart from the Pinefox'

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:32 (twenty-three years ago)

But he's symptomatic cos I think people who don't know him think of him as a bit of a crank, whereas my guess is 10 years ago that wouldn't have been the case.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:33 (twenty-three years ago)

No, what you say is almost true, I think. I think there are far fewer people of this persuasion. But still quite a lot if you look at the over 35s, I think.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:36 (twenty-three years ago)

My favourite bits of hip hop singles are usually the samples. I don't really like rapping. I find it a bit monotonous and headachey and it reminds me of being trapped in performance poetry events. I'd rather hear a bad singer than a good rapper. I acknowledge that I am possibly missing out one of the more innovative musics of our time, but what can I do? I just have the one set of ears. I also have issues with overbearingly macho genres (and I have the same issues with Westerns/War/Gangster films). I don't think my lack of interest has much cultural significance, but I don't like the implication that sometimes come up that one is obliged to like hip hop these days.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:44 (twenty-three years ago)

What happened to all of them?

They're out there. They just keep their mouths shut now cuz they're afraid of being called racists. "I don't like rap because I prefer melodic music" is often interpreted by the hypersensitive as "I don't like rap because I have a bias towards the white Euro-derived musical tradition and those silly Africans can go to hell and take those boring beats with them."

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 11 October 2002 09:45 (twenty-three years ago)

''I don't really like rapping. I find it a bit monotonous and headachey and it reminds me of being trapped in performance poetry events.''

for me this is the opposite. i luv the rapping, the more word mincing the better but the music can be pretty bad at times.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:54 (twenty-three years ago)

In Britain they've moved on. They say they like rap because they have a public enemy album and instead vent their ire on garage.

― Jacob, Friday, 11 October 2002 09:55 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm sure it's perfectly possible just to dislike the sound of people speaking rhythmically and often aggressively over the top of music without being some sort of Nazi, you know.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:55 (twenty-three years ago)

But JtN likes some R&B, no?

I too rarely put on hip-hop, btw. I don't know why. Yeah - rather hearing singing than rapping is the main thing I suppose. But sometimes I love it. I dunno. I don't think my opinions have much cultural significance either.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I like hip hop, by the way. I like some R&B (although not the early 90s sickly drippy stuff). I generally have no time whatseover for garage, just don't 'get' it. Plus I jsut don't like the noise it makes.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:56 (twenty-three years ago)

The 'genre' is so ubiquitous and multi-faceted that it's impossible to actually hate it all. The actual rapping bores me most of the time but, as someone said above, that's probably due to my older age more than anything else. But great sampling/hip-hop is still awe inspiring and inspirational.

― phil turnbull (philT), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:59 (twenty-three years ago)

what is this 'noise' that UK garage apparently makes? what are you talking abt?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 October 2002 09:59 (twenty-three years ago)

I approach both through chartpop since Hip-hop/R+B are the bedrock of lots of pop that I like. In terms of *buying* hip-hop then I'm a total part-timer, limited to the predictable - DLS, Outkast etc. I prolly wouldn't buy an R Kelly album, but I prolly would buy a Misteeq one.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah I'm not saying anyone 'should' like hip-hop or it says anything bad about them if they don't. I mean I DO think everyone should like hip-hop because it gives me lots of pleasure and I'd like people to be happier but I understand it if their pleasure-centres work differently.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:09 (twenty-three years ago)

"what is this 'noise' that UK garage apparently makes? what are you talking abt?"

Noise = sound. Not that I was claiming that UK garage is 'just noise'.

However, I find almost all of it far too reliant on a particular kind of beat to really interest me. Oddly, I didn't have this problem with drum'n'bass or house, but I suppose that's because these ears of mine hear a lot more variation in those genres.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:12 (twenty-three years ago)

For those who have a "bias towards the white Euro-derived musical tradition" it's hard at times to distinguish the good from the bad rap. Hence a lot of white people outside America tend to only go for the consensus albums like Wu Tang, Missy, Jay Z etc -- the white music critic recommendations. I tend not to listen to the words in rap but just like the flow of certain rappers. But generally I suspect most on this side of the water prefer jungle and garage to the gangsta stuff -- prorbably down to the ingrained pop bias.

― David Gunnip, Friday, 11 October 2002 10:13 (twenty-three years ago)

OK here's what you wanted! I spent so much time and money trying to like this shit, and I just don't. I bought the Jay-Z album and the Missy Elliott album and everything, haven't played them since the first listen. Hip-hop is just comedy music, worth one listen. R&B is unspeakable, doesn't even have the verbal or programming dexterity, just a bunch of people yelling and moaning at different times. Plus, sorry, the lyrics are all stupid. Rappers all seem to have a persecution complex and blame COINTELPRO every time they get a parking ticket, and as for R&B - bragging and complaining are boring to listen to IRL so why would I want to hear somebody caterwauling same? Even worse are some of the arguments in favour - like listing expensive brand names is "subversive hyper-capitalism", not just pandering. OK I'm off the credibility scale now and have revealed I have nothing to say about modern music, but what a relief to not have to act like I care anymore.

― dave q, Friday, 11 October 2002 10:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Whither the Destiny's Child and So Solid Crew lovin' Dave Q??

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Simple - DC is pop and SSC is just great Brit punk!

― dave q, Friday, 11 October 2002 10:24 (twenty-three years ago)

I think one reason why fewer people in the UK dislike rap now is that they can understand what rappers are on about. Very few people would hear a rapper mention a "ho" and be scratching their heads wondering why he was banging on about a garden implement. It takes time for slang from one cultural context to be assimilated into the vernacular of another.

There's also fusion/borrowing of musical styles, an ever-growing process. A quick summary:

Run DMC do "Walk This Way" Aerosmith fans get interested.

PM Dawn do "Set Adrift on Memory Bliss" Spandau Ballet fans get interested.

Wee Papa Girl Rappers do "Wee Rule" Dancehall Reggae fans get interested.

Kirsty McColl does "Walking Down Madison" (which includes a rap) some of her fans get interested

PWEI bring some indie kids on board.

More of them follow when Bernard Sumner raps on "Idiot Country", "Feel Every Beat" and "Times Change" (ok, poor example ;) )

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:25 (twenty-three years ago)

My God, imagine getting turned onto hip-hop by Barney rapping on 'Feel Every Beat'.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah obviously I was exxagerating some, but I honestly think that the 'intelligence' of most rappers is WAY overrated. KRS-One ("I don't read") and El-P come to mind, I mean, I read 'Illuminatus!' too when I was 12 and I've never been called a 'conscious prophet', or wished to be, or proclaimed myself same. Wordslingers OK, 'trenchant analysts' I don't think.

― dave q, Friday, 11 October 2002 10:27 (twenty-three years ago)

More bugbears - "I'm not calling all women 'bitches', just ones who carry themselves in a certain way"; "This is what it's like on the street, reportage"/"It's just entertainment, people never pick on Schwarzenegger films" (when said by same person about same track); people who release one single and then reveal plans for branded clothing/film/airline etc

Although, credit where due. I wish I could remember the ILM person who explained the reasoning behind using the same sample for loads of different tracks (by different ppl), it made perfect sense and actually changed my viewpoint! Well done and thank you whoever you were

― dave q, Friday, 11 October 2002 10:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes it's the Nicky Wire syndrome.

Does anyone really suggest that the lists of brand names are subversive hyper-capitalism though? I just take it as being that we live in an ultra-branded environment so it's hardly surprising if pop music reflects this.

(Actually I may have suggested something similar once oh dear)

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:33 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm really more interested in the DJ/producer element of hip-hop culture than the rapping.

I appreciate all the rhythmic/metric complexity and humor and expression of frustration/glee/terror and whatever else -- rappers write better lyrics (stylewise, at least) than most rock songwriters, who are really very lazy. But I don't particularly like the straight-line forward motion of a lot of rapping -- I like music that moves up and down, or zig-zags all over the place.

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 11 October 2002 10:34 (twenty-three years ago)

i've always been the same in that i've loved some hip hop and r n' b but really disliked other examples of it...i dont really get how someone can love absolutely everything of a certain genre you know? if they know the genre well then they must recognise whats good and whats bad within it...even that dastardly Tim Westwood and his ilk, but they seem so concerned with just representing and bigging up the genre as a whole so much that they refuse to accept that it aint always all goodbut often i find i'll like it for the music but not the lyrics and what the artist themselves are about - this is largely thanks to the Neptunes whose infectious beats and hooks got me liking a lot of things, like 'Nothin' or 'Grindin' but i get nothing really from what the actual rap is about, more so if its of the 'bling bling/gangsta' mentality.

― blueski, Friday, 11 October 2002 10:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Ha! there are loads of people who hate R and B and HipHop.

Any fucking person I know hates R and B, dance fans, classic rock fans, casual rock fans, the lot. I'd say most people I know who are into music are into guitar type stuff, and almost all of them despise R and B, mainly for the lyrical stuff Dave talks about. I think I dislike the lyrics a bit aswell but it doesn't get in the way of liking the music really.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:38 (twenty-three years ago)

'Ultra-branded environment' - possibly true but it's still no excuse. Just means a lack of imagination doesn't it? "I write what I see", well maybe you should spend time somewhere else besides shops then! How is singing about brands any less boring than rock bands talking about being 'on the road' etc.

― dave q, Friday, 11 October 2002 10:39 (twenty-three years ago)

''Yeah obviously I was exxagerating some''

hehe...

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Blueski I think it's the difference between "I like the genre but I think some of it is shit" and "I like some tracks but I think as a genre it has some big flaws". i.e. nobody's suggesting you have to like EVERYTHING, that's impossible (except for the ILM Microhouse Kru heh heh)

DQ - well horses for courses, it's more like Belle And Sebastian or something adding 'local detail' to their songs I think. It's harmless.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I like R&B more than Belle & Sebastian

― dave q, Friday, 11 October 2002 10:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah the B&S reference wasn't intended to convert you.

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:46 (twenty-three years ago)

BTW i don't 'get' R and B but i do find things to like with some hip-hop.

''I like R&B more than Belle & Sebastian''

yeah so do I.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't listen to it much, but I don't dislike it at all.

I quite like the Jay Z and Ludicrus songs I've seen on the Box.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 11 October 2002 10:49 (twenty-three years ago)

I hear this one all the time when discussing music IRL: "I like everything but rap & country."

― briania, Friday, 11 October 2002 10:54 (twenty-three years ago)

"I like the genre but I think some of it is shit" and "I like some tracks but I think as a genre it has some big flaws".

regarding hip hop i would say the former but perhaps the latter with r n' b which is interesting

― blueski, Friday, 11 October 2002 11:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Re B&S vs KRS-One - maybe it's a cultural thing, Yanks love to talk on and on about shit they know absolutely nothing about. OTOH, Brits enjoy wittering endlessly about stuff THEY know about, but nobody else with any intelligence could possibly care about (weather, their collection of original lightbulb tungsten filaments, football zzzzzzz) Not to mention recent cultural trends which give people the disastrous idea that their thoughts, experiences etc are interesting and worth expressing, swelling the ranks of rappers and moaners both.

― dave q, Friday, 11 October 2002 11:02 (twenty-three years ago)

There's also fusion/borrowing of musical styles, an ever-growing process. A quick summary:
Run DMC do "Walk This Way" Aerosmith fans get interested.
PM Dawn do "Set Adrift on Memory Bliss" Spandau Ballet fans get interested.
Wee Papa Girl Rappers do "Wee Rule" Dancehall Reggae fans get interested.
Kirsty McColl does "Walking Down Madison" (which includes a rap) some of her fans get interested
I'm sure (*gag*) Vanilla Hammer and MC Ice have something to do with this too.

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Friday, 11 October 2002 11:04 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm sure (*gag*) Vanilla Hammer and MC Ice have something to do with this too.

Don't forget Afrika Bambaataa.

― Jody Beth Rosen, Friday, 11 October 2002 11:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Wow, dave q is just full of piss and vinegar flavored tater chips this fine morning.
Even worse are some of the arguments in favour - like listing expensive brand names is "subversive hyper-capitalism", not just pandering. OK I'm off the credibility scale now and have revealed I have nothing to say about modern music, but what a relief to not have to act like I care anymore.
Well, despite the "wheres my Metamucil, you whippersnapper!"-like tone of dave q's rant...I have to admit, the namechecking your clothing tags crap does irritate the shit out of me. Whenever I see that, I think: Jeez, you'd think that whole attitude died out with Jordache jeans...

― Lord Custos Alpha (Lord Custos Alpha), Friday, 11 October 2002 11:08 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't know, it still seem pretty prevalent in rock fans of all ages, even nu-metal fans, and they always call hiphop "Gangster Rap", which is something I've never heard before.

Does owning the Eve + GS single count as hiphop? Cos I think it's the best I can do.

― Graham (graham), Friday, 11 October 2002 11:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Eve & GS = hip pop :)

― blueski, Friday, 11 October 2002 11:45 (twenty-three years ago)

I never understood why 'hip pop' didn't take off as a phrase. Maybe cause it's hard to say.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 11 October 2002 11:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, you have to stop in the middle.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 11 October 2002 12:04 (twenty-three years ago)

"I don't like rap because I prefer melodic music"

This reminds me, I bet Geir still hates rap!

― Nicole (Nicole), Friday, 11 October 2002 12:12 (twenty-three years ago)

but if you dont stop when saying 'hip hop' it sounds like 'hippop' anyway

― blueski, Friday, 11 October 2002 12:13 (twenty-three years ago)

seems to me that hip hop has been OK by most under-35 hipsters for a long time, about the last 15 years. even those who hadn't succumbed to def jam's big 3 in '87-'88 got converted by either de la soul or nwa or both. but R&B - seen as too pop - was verboten until pretty recently when missy/neptunes/timbaland etc. started to be described as "subversive" - which is essentially an elitist critical reflex reaction - if something popular is smart it must be sugar-coated avant-gaurdism, sneaking vitamins into the kiddies' coco-puffs

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 11 October 2002 12:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Skipping 51 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Actually, I'm a bit puzzled why hip hop and r'n'b are bracketed together for the purposes of this question: I doubt I'm alone in liking lots and lots of modern r'n'b but not much hip hop. I don't see that big a leap, really, from The Supremes to Destiny's Child... hiphop seems like something entirely new to the pop gene pool.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Sunday, 13 October 2002 20:07 (twenty-three years ago)

But hip hop rhythms and rapping overlap so much into R&B - the Neptunes can produce ODB and Kelis (haha and Britney) and TLC have rapping and soul-style singing. These threads have seen a couple of people unsure where to put Missy. You're right that there is the (Northern, Motown) soul lineage too, but it is closely intertwined with hip hop now.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 13 October 2002 20:18 (twenty-three years ago)

I was going to say that... I'm going with Blueski upthread in saying that I like a lot of hip-hop but think that there are tracks that are shite, while liking the occasional RnB tune but thinking the genre itself has some flaws. However, I think this is more to do with vocals than production values.

I'm not *quite* so sure about the differentiation between the OLD RnB (ie classic soul, Supremes, Motown in general) and NEW RnB (ie Destiny's Child, Aaliyah, Tweet etc). Isn't it a matter of evolution? I can't see many people on ILM comparing Screamadelica or Kid A to the Stones or The Who and then saying that one or the other isn't "rock".

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 13 October 2002 20:20 (twenty-three years ago)

But R&B wasn't really used of Motown, except in terms of American charts where the R&B chart replaced the astonishingly named Race Chart, and just meant black music. R&B in genre terms more strictly meant the 1950s bouncy blues that wasn't quite blues or rock 'n' roll - maybe Bo Diddley, Rosco Gordon, that kind of thing. But yes, the soul lineage is certainly there. I think the thread was a weak one through most of the '80s (with rare exceptions) and into the '90s, and that meant that a lot of old soul fans (I was one some lists with lots of same) drew a line somewhere and more or less decided that soul lost its soul a decade and more ago. For me, I love TLC even more than the Supremes.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 13 October 2002 20:26 (twenty-three years ago)

"R&B" was also used for John Mayall and The Rolling Stones!

― Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 13 October 2002 21:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Incidentally, I find the idea of applying the term "rhythm and blues" to Destiny's Child, let alone R Kelly, utterly antiquated and quite sweet in its total disregard for the semiotic relationship between the music and the generic name. I'm assuming people just don't pay the slightest bit of attention to what the initials actually stand for any more.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 13 October 2002 21:23 (twenty-three years ago)

I heart the hell out of this thread but Dave Q where the hell were you on Thursday, wanted to meetcha

in re: R&B lyrics, noone will persuade me that Luther Vandross's "Take You Out" is anything but utterly brilliant

― J0hn Darnie1le, Monday, 14 October 2002 14:06 (twenty-three years ago)

I am very bemused by Alex in Mainhatten saying he doesn't like hip-hop, then turning around and name-checking MC Solaar.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 14 October 2002 14:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Matt DC the relationship between the appellation "R&B" and the sound of the music is precisely a semiotic one in that it calls upon an entire history of modern black music in a mixed culture for its significance, rather than pretending one-to-one relationship between its name and the sound it claims to represent - which would be something more like "hermeneutic" maybe? "Jazz" doesn't exactly line up with Matt Wilson or Sun Ra either but you know what ppl mean by it - it's a way to claim allegiances to the past.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 October 2002 14:20 (twenty-three years ago)

It really isn't a personal attack if someone dislikes something you are into. I mean, who has time to deeply investigate every genre? If you aren't attracted by the readily accesible stuff, you probably won't go much deeper. FOr me, hip hop is the hair metal of the 00s.

― g (graysonlane), Monday, 14 October 2002 14:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Hey listen, is Someday My Blues Will Cover the Earth an R&B record? In that case I do like some recent R&B. Hip Hop/R&B fans: it's worth a listen.

― g (graysonlane), Monday, 14 October 2002 14:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Kid A isn't rock.

― sundar subramanian, Monday, 14 October 2002 17:15 (twenty-three years ago)

isn't "Someday My Blues ..." by His Name Is Alive? The only music I've ever heard by them sounded like the Beach Boys and Joni Mitchell. I liked it, though.

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Monday, 14 October 2002 17:43 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, HNIA. The last one was a bit different than the earlier ones, but those were good to.

― g (graysonlane), Monday, 14 October 2002 20:35 (twenty-three years ago)

seven months pass...

I am almost willing to answer this in the affirmative at this point. In the case of hip-hop it has everything to do with lyrical content and the blurry boundary between the common gangsta-influenced ethos image and real life behavior. The requirements of realness and so forth. I don't have the energy or motivation to put up a big argument about it though.

And as for contemporary R&B, it's just mostly bleah to me.

There are still too many exceptions for me to be a true hard-core hater, especially since I don't deny aesthetic value in hip-hop, but just have a lot of problems with the whole package. I kind of hate it, but more in a sad way.

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 5 June 2003 21:18 (twenty-three years ago)

I wanted to say something like this on the WSJ article thread, but the author said such idiotic things. . .

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 5 June 2003 21:18 (twenty-three years ago)

every now and then the silent films newsgroup erupts into an old-fogey circle jerk of hip hop-hate. it's really embarrassing to behold. i forget sometimes that the "rap isn't music" canard still has currency among the over-40 set.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 5 June 2003 21:30 (twenty-three years ago)

seven months pass...

I think I have a moth-to-flame thing going on here, but I want to briefly spell out some reasons why people might not like hip-hop, for those who find that almost unimaginable:

(1) Narrowing of musical means, paring things down mostly to rhythm and sonics/color/texture. (Sampling expands the sonic palate big-time, but for me what is done with it doesn't make up for the elimination or at least limited use of these more traditional means.)

(2) Rapping itself can be pretty annoying. As I've said elsewhere, often, to me it seems that almost all rapping can be divided between the belligerent or at least in-your-face (best exemplified by gangsta rap) and the smartalecky (best exemplified by undie/alternative). (I nevertheless do hear the difference between the technical abilities of different MCs.)

(3) Offensiveness of the lyrical content of much of this material.

(4) The real life violence of some MCs and associated pressure to keep it real, to have street cred., etc.

(Why post this here? I could start my own anti-hiphop thread, but that seems gratuitous. There are already other anti-hiphop threads I could add to, but most of them start off with posts that take stances I find too extreme.)

(Go ahead: start an anti- thread on a genre I like.)

*submit*

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 14 January 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Huh. I'm sorta surprised nobody said anything here.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 15 January 2004 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

point (2) is the bulk of it for me

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 15 January 2004 02:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm kind of glad, actually. I re-read the thread (after posting), and I don't think I'm saying a single thing nobody else already said, just bringing together my reasons. Also, I'm not try to argue anyone out of listening to it and enjoying it. (And I still maintain an ambivalence about hiphop that makes me a poor representative for the real hiphop haters. I want a few hiphop CDs, after all.)

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Thursday, 15 January 2004 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

(My post was in response to Ned, obviously.)

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Thursday, 15 January 2004 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Those points can be expanded to accomodate soul/r&b/etc.
For instance, I think the Marvin Gaye mentality is vile and offensive, but the over 35 crowd loves him, even if it's just kitsch. Then again, any kitsch I don't love, I hate.

― Adam Michel (adam michel), Thursday, 15 January 2004 03:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, if your run-of-the-mill indie rockers get political, they are slammed (rightfully so), but if those J5 rhyme mastaz get political, it's socially conscious and progressive and intellectual. Then again, I have a real distaste for most politics.

― Adam Michel (adam michel), Thursday, 15 January 2004 03:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Wondering about why I liked the early to late 80's stuff more than the stuff now, well, the bragging etc is all still there, and I always liked it. Ditto the political consciousness. What I think sets my teeth on edge now is the smoothness and the tacit or overt acceptance of the values of working hard, getting famous, getting even, making tons of money, having designer everything etc. Nothing wrong with all that, just too much of it. I wouldn't mind more eccentricity in both the production and the lyrical content. I wouldn't mind a more lo-fi, crazy sound with lyrics to match. Dizzee gets close to that, but I reckon he could go a lot further, it still sounds to clean and traditional.

*ducks*

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Marvin Gaye mentality?

― sym (shmuel), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Marvin Gaye mentalism.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i think those j5 rhyme mastaz get slammed mostly too.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I was about to say, is there even one unabashed J5 lover around these parts (for instance)?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Well not around these parts.
Ok that was just a dumb post.
I still have Marvin Gaye though.

― adam michel (adam michel), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

That's a beautiful typo.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:27 (twenty-two years ago)

It actually makes me want to listen to Sexual Healing.

I know very little of Outkast's repertoire, but aren't those guys kinda socially aware? Everyone likes them. Do they still wear funny clothes?

btw previous post not a loose haiku

― adam michel (adam michel), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Everyone likes them.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:34 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry, that should read "everyone"

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Jurassic 5 -> Dr. Octagon -> Deltron 3030 -> Cyclops 4000 -> Andre 3000

Mully, I am not a serious boy to be quoted seruiously, seriously.

― adam michel (adam michel), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:35 (twenty-two years ago)

as you can see.

― adam michel (adam michel), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:36 (twenty-two years ago)

for real

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 15 January 2004 04:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I am generally a rock type person. I try my hardest to listen to and appreciate other types of music and one of those types that I quite like sometimes is Hip Hop. I detest the posturing, misogyny, materialistic nature etc of a lot of Hip Hop (and R&B) I hear and this instantly puts me off listening to the offending artist. I know lots of friends (mid-20s) who don't like Hip Hop. Sometimes it's the rapping - many of those friends like the instrumental side e.g. DJ Shadow, RJD2 - and sometimes it's the music itself. I think for some people, Hip Hop doesn't provide the melodic elements they want in music, the rhythm doesn't involve them as much as melody and so Hip Hop leaves them cold.

As for me, even when I'm listening to stuff I like (recently I've liked J5 - Power in Numbers, Mr Lif - I Phantom and RZA - Ghost Dog ost) I get bored well before the end. The pacing, the beats, the rapping and the melodic structures don't change enough to keep me interested.

I really appreciate that Hip Hop is one of the few musical genres moving forward and want to love it more for that reason. However, no matter how I try, I can't get that excited about it.

I reckon that people who don't know a genre (such as Hip Hop) very well will only be aware of the stuff that gets radio play. If that doesn't interest them, there's no reason for them to dig any deeper. Thus people will say "I hate Hip Hop" based on 50cent and Eminem. This is true for R&B for me. None that I have heard has interested me in the slightest. In fact, quite the opposite. I don't see any of the intelligence or musical/technical innovation that some Hip Hop strives for and I see tonnes of the materialistic attitude and misogyny I hate so much.

― wobbly, Thursday, 15 January 2004 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

REVIVAL!

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Sunday, 26 June 2005 01:14 (twenty years ago)

I hate 90% of hip hop/gangsta rap.
90% of R&B bores me to tears.
95% of country also bores me to tears
80% of rock/pop bores me to tears.

So how do I have a closet full of vinyl and 2,000 MP3s?

― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 26 June 2005 02:33 (twenty years ago)

because there's over 80,000 albums you wouldn't bother to take a piss on.

― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 26 June 2005 02:35 (twenty years ago)

Jesus, I'm watching VH1 Metal Mania and there are these guys with big hair, and fruit and rainbows and clouds and know I know why, if this is a representative sample of most metal, that I don't piss on it. Birds, for God's sake, doves and baloons, it looks like a Starburst commercial. Oh now they are in space. The have headbands, Now I have to watch to see who these losers are --and they are: Enuff Z'nuff

hahahha!!!!!

― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 26 June 2005 02:59 (twenty years ago)

90%+ of anything is terrible no matter what it is.

― jack cole's skeletal remains found at the bottom of a ravine (jackcole), Sunday, 26 June 2005 03:06 (twenty years ago)

Sturgeon's Law, I suppose.

― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 26 June 2005 03:12 (twenty years ago)

i was trying to be more generous, ha!, instead of my usual curmudgeonly get-off-my-lawn self.

― jack cole's skeletal remains found at the bottom of a ravine (jackcole), Sunday, 26 June 2005 03:13 (twenty years ago)

I dislike about 95% of rap for the same reason I dislike the late-period Yo La Tengo. Wait, I'll explain. I have an unhealthy need to hear instruments/parts added over the course of a song; it's a form of ADD that comes from being brought up on those little, perfectly sculpted 2m 30sec mid-period Beatles songs. Thus, most rap bores me somewhere around the second verse.

I think we've had a thread to the effect of "List rap songs with buildup/crescendos." Sure enough, most of the songs listed were the ones I liked. The very fact that these songs could be listed, though, or that we had to rake our brains to remember a dozen, is the reason I don't really get along with rap.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 26 June 2005 04:45 (twenty years ago)

Oh, and also, I'm a dumb foreigner whose English is not good enough to understand 90% of rap lyrics.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 26 June 2005 04:46 (twenty years ago)

Aside from 50 Ft. Wave (oh how my soul belongs to Hersh), I don't think I've really given a damn about a new rock album this year (ie listened to it multiple times over and over in the car or on repeat).

I bought the Kills and Raveonettes out of duty as they were the only hyped post-Strokes acts I really enjoyed, but I've listened to neither all the way through. Sleater-Kinney's album was good but I'd rather listen to their old albums.

This is a complete 180 from six or seven years ago, when I probably would have snickered at "where's the 'c' in rap????" jokes. I don't know if it's just that rock is that bad now (and wasn't so bad seven, even three years ago) or if the change is purely in my tastes and attitudes. I'm prepared to say 50/50. Radio rock is thoroughly putrid, and most indie is so heavily mediated, playing to its built-in audience that it feels dead to me.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Sunday, 26 June 2005 05:46 (twenty years ago)

I just find it hard to believe when informed people (on a music appreciation site no less) can't find something to love in the entire lifespan of a style of music.

Perhaps hip-hop doesn't have what you're looking for, but who's to say you can't find something you weren't looking for and like it anyway?

This pretty much defines my entire approach to listening to music, as well as what I hate about generalizations (especially, but not exclusive to, when it comes to hip hop). completely utterly OTM.

― lemin (lemin), Sunday, 26 June 2005 07:40 (twenty years ago)

four months pass...

rap and hip hop suck man. 70's rock is the only way to go with bands like ac/dc, status quo and cold chisel why do you need rap. they have no talent and i have a huge cock

― amanda hugankiss, Thursday, 17 November 2005 00:36 (twenty years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.