Indie Film Guilt - C/D

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Why are so many of the ILF cadre of ex-indie film fans ashamed of indie?

Yes, y'all at home watching IFC, checking out parker posey/chris eigemann fansites, closet Sundance appearances allthewhile suspectly buying other genres to boost your ILF cred... you are among the first to bash "Indie-Films: The Genre"?

Peer pressure? Diseased with cinematic fashion? is this a po-mo "ironic" move like the fleeting american pie/braveheart fixations of yesteryear?

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

So, have we decided that the way to make more popular ILF threads is to repeat popular ILM threads but with "film" in the title?

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"popular"

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

LOL!

Indie film to me is John Cassavetes.

Indie film to me is not yet another film about a 20- (or 30-) something who doesn't know what to do with his/her life, love, career, etc.

Don't get me wrong -- I honestly believe the indie spirit is alive and well. It's just been co-opted by Miramax, Sundance and pals.

Right now, most indie filmmakers are still in their soapbox mode -- everybody's got a story to tell about their particular 'group' and gosh darn it, they're gonna do it. Perhaps one day they'll get back to actually making films.

And I do love Parker Posey. However, having her in your film might bring you some indie-cred, but that doesn't necessarily mean you've made a decent film.

BabyBuddha (BabyBuddha), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

An honest answer: I'm probably not as much of an outright champion of "indie films" as I was in high school and college. But that's mostly because I was, well, in high school and college and wanted to look cool.

At the same time, I don't resist them at all, and truth be told, they still constitute a fairly sizable portion of my total viewing.

But is it just me, or was there a heyday for indie films about 5 years ago that seems to have dropped off dramatically? I mean, during the summer of 1998 alone I saw and enjoyed The Opposite of Sex, The Spanish Prisoner, Buffalo '66, Love and Death on Long Island, High Art, Your Friends and Neighbors, and Pecker.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

(Okay, I didn't enjoy all of those, now that I think about it.)

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

first off, gygax, your initial post was hilarious--you summed up your own answer right there.

i guess i view "indie" film as having the same fall as punk rock did(or, more recently, indie rock)--it was commercially and socially assimilated (i.e. grandmas with mohawks in tv commercials) to the point that it lost all meaning. and even more importantly, it failed to evolve, thus the "punk" movement became exactly the opposite of what it's name portrays--where it should have been dynamic it became stagnant, where it should have found the status quo, it became the status quo. Today's "punks" are in the IDM scene, or (dare i say) new emo.

The same thing happened with independent film. Jem Cohen had some really good comments about the state of independent film when something like "The English Patient" is described as "indie"--huge budget, cliched storyline, but it grew from outside the studio structure.

I think I started a post on this site about trying to find a new genre name for "indie" film, and i still think were in desperate need. dogme95 has been the closest thing to it that i can remember.

jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Here's the quote from Cohen I was thinking of. If anyone is interested in reading the full interview (it's well worth it), check out: http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/00/9/cohen.html


RG: It’s interesting that the idea of ‘independent’ filmmaking has become a genre in itself.

JC: Well, it’s one of those terms that has been made meaningless like ‘alternative’ music. It’s a nauseatingly meaningless term now that people talk about The English Patient (1996) as an independent film. That is a really bad joke to me. But there is ‘independent’ film. Just not in the way that it is usually referred to. And there always has been and there always will be. Filmmaking is many different things and there is no reason why it should be so identified with ‘big’ movies or narrative movies. And ‘independence’, to some degree, is really just a state of mind. People like John Cassavetes made the most fiercely independent movies of all time and not just because he was working outside of the Hollywood system in many respects but, really, because of what he was after.

jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Gygax I will get you for this.

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

This is funny, though, because my tastes in film run a nice parallel to my tastes in music. As gygax (in)famously noted, I grew up listening to and loving and obsessing (mostly American) indie music and at the same time, came to love film through the US "indie" directors of the 80s - Jim jarmusch, Hal hartley. gus Van Sant, etc. Yet much of what these directors have done lately has not interested me as much as the work of several perhaps more mainstream "genre" directors. It's not guilt, I would just rather watch Torque than another dull and pretentious Sundance/IFC movie.

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 21 January 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I have to admit, there are a couple of people with indie sensibilities now working for major studios who have pulled off the transition pretty well--Jim Jarmusch, Todd Solondz, Wes Anderson. Of course, I haven't seen "Ghost Dog" yet, so I might have to throw this post out the window...

jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 22 January 2004 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Braveheart/American Pie love as po-mo irony? The only thing steeped in po-mo posturing is that question.

The problem isn't "indie film" per se but its application to films that only actually offer a low-gloss version of classic, protagonist-centric Hollywood narrative conventions. I mean... hey, let's start with the most boring aspect of most Hollywood films and reject formalist pleasures = ?!

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 22 January 2004 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I hasten to add that the mere use of the phrase "indie films" automatically conjures up images of the bottom of the barrel candidates (Your Friends and Neighbors, My Best Friend's Wedding) from that field, and I'm not referring to Van Sant, W. Anderson, Jarmusch, or the older ones like Cassavetes, Cohen, etc.

Maybe some of the faint hostility comes from those who use the term "indie film" as a none-too-veiled slam at studio films.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 22 January 2004 17:46 (twenty-two years ago)

"Maybe some of the faint hostility comes from those who use the term "indie film" as a none-too-veiled slam at studio films."

I think that's exactly what the problem is, Eric. The term "indie" has lost all meaning, other than being an alternative to Hollywood-style filmmaking. And a lot of it truly has become Hollywood garbage minus the budget and glossy imagery. It's pretty disappointing, given what American independent filmaking was during the late '50's and early '60's, and again during the late '80's and early '90s. Apparently we'll have to wait until 2029 for another strong American independent film movement....

jay blanchard (jay blanchard), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

six years pass...

Miramax to shutter

http://www.thewrap.com/ind-column/rip-miramax-13606

Rage, Resentment, Spleen (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 28 January 2010 19:36 (sixteen years ago)

New Yorker Films catalog picked up:

http://carpetbagger.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/indie-film-distributor-gets-new-life/

Fusty Moralizer (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 10 February 2010 12:39 (sixteen years ago)


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